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  2. Brake-Throttle-Turn implies, as a sequence of actions a passage of time. With the passage of time there also means that there is an interval between each successive action. We can agree that for any rider, bike, weight, lean angle, etc (add specifics) there is a maximum speed at which a turn could be negotiated successfully without running wide off or off track. It is more erratic to reduce speed only to add back what you have scrubbed off. From this viewpoint this technique has limited benefits for a track day rider. But I believe that in a race could serve a strategic or tactical purpose. For example: inside block-passing or as a tight group of 3 vying for position.
  3. I tried it once. Brake-Throttle-Turn. There’s a loop (or used to be) near me called “Harry S” (Truman Drive) a couple of long sweeping right turns, banked a little -a good place on the street to get the knee down. I found it could be a useful technique. I abandoned it when it betrayed me on the final left turn at home that day after many laps on Harry S- I lost the front trailing the brakes off (something slippery? - I felt it go- almost in slow motion) and broke my foot peg and a small foot bone. I found that the technique wasn’t at fault, my timing and application of it was, but it as a trained reaction contributed to the inability to recover after I felt the front bite again when the brakes released and the wheel roll. I needed that tire to press on the pavement and when the throttle was applied there wasn’t enough front traction to keep the rubber side down.
  4. Yesterday
  5. Perhaps you and I are watching different videos, or have different interpretations, or the way he explained the concept was poor, but it seems to me that the tuner was not purposely advising exactly that "brake-open throttle-turn in" timing sequence. The way I see it, that gentleman was asking the rider, whose suspension was being adjusted, not to be shy or excessively cautious about giving some gas to the engine during the first phase of a regular curve (not to coast), but rather achieving the proper weight distribution as early as possible, not over-loading the front contact patch (which needlessly over-stresses its surface), which condition when back from a spin (plus the height of the zip-tie) was the tuner's reference for finer adjusting of spring and damping. I believe that the tuner would never be able to notice any difference (regarding texture of surfaces of the tires) between the two sequences: "brake-open throttle-turn in" or "brake-turn in-open throttle", any thing that happens there just happens too fast to make any difference. In the video I watched, the tuner was able to see that the rider had done some wheelies during a lap because contradictory clues: the zip-tie moved too high (much weight on front suspension when landing back), but under-stress of the rubber surface (not enough cornering and braking forces/overall low speed). Best (non-dynamic) suspension always means best possible managing of dynamic weight transfer to pavement for most conditions, regarding forces and accelerations of braking, cornering and exiting a curve. Lacking more sophisticated sensors on the bike, the tuner's expert diagnostic fully relies on the visual clues of rubber surface (what pavement does to rubber during the periods of times the curves last) and range of suspension strokes after one or more laps, reason for which he needs the rider to keep smoothness and weight distribution as close to ideal as possible. As always, I could be wrong, though.
  6. Last week
  7. ^THIS!!! Everytime I get my entry speed wrong, everything is off. Before I even reach the apex im already annoyed in my head because I know that I'm off the line, I either came in too slow and now I'm making mid corner adjustments, or I came in too hot and im running wide and making mid corner adjustments. When I get the entry speed right however, like you said, everything else falls in line and it just feels right, feels better, feels amazing!
  8. Not a really a discussion, I just found the video pretty funny, especially when I saw who they used as an example of #2 "The Seer" lol!
  9. I believe getting to 40 front / 60 rear weight distribution for corners is always the goal regardless of wet or dry riding conditions. As to which I would rather have slide, it would be the rear. Rear traction can be managed with throttle control. The front is far harder to control / manage once traction starts to go. Worth reminding myself that even in sketchy riding conditions throttle control rule #1 still applies - I don't want to be playing with the throttle (open/close/open) while I am in a corner. It will just cause weight distribution, and hence the degree of my traction, to be abruptly bouncing around. Lastly, while cornering forces and braking are the two principle dynamics that have to share traction, clearly riding surface conditions dramatically impact the traction equation. So stating the obvious, in wet conditions my cornering speed needs to simply come down, which brings me back to the fundamental concept of making sure I have set my "entry speed" properly. Always amazed at how when I nail my entry speed everything else (riding line, weight distribution, apex precision, exit drive, SR avoidance, etc.) seems to go well - and when I get it wrong everything suffers. Dave
  10. +1. Have ridden the new 2020 for three CSS training days now. There are so many things to like about this bike that there is just no going back to prior models for me.
  11. Cobie you bring up a good point. Unfortunately when the throttle is on, two things are happening that impacts turn radius: geometry and gyroscopic effect. We can account for geometry by creating a chassis setup to accommodate the style. I think it would be harder (but measurable) to account to gyroscopic forces. I don’t know if more bar pressure can overcome the penalty.
  12. Don't tell anyone, just continue to act immature (that's my story anyway).
  13. Does feeling old count? 😂 Oh wait...we are old 😳
  14. Wish we could...but with 30 bikes, that's a task/cost!
  15. Have to agree all the way on that. Got some great info from Dylan on these tires (he's well educated on them) and they work better in every category but street wear. So the Q3+ is an excellent tire, but the Q4 would be the one for strict track riding for sure.
  16. I did! Some silly minor eye infection, and I didn't have time to go to the doc! It was gone a day or so later, but yeah...small children and old people were warned to stay away.
  17. For sketchy riding conditions, what's gonna give the maximum possible traction...can one beat 40 front/60 rear? And add to that, which would you rather have slide, the front or the rear?
  18. Let's touch on one thing: bike doesn't turn as well when the throttle is on, even just maintenance throttle. When off throttle, bike weight is forward, more on the front, steering angle is steeper, wheelbase is shorter--the bike turns better. Does anyone know a single turn where braking is done, then gas on, then bike turned,? As mentioned earlier by trueblue550 (Streets of Willow Springs) there are series of turns where the throttle is stopped for a moment to complete the steering (T 4-5), or where rolling it on puts the rider too wide for the next turn in point (T5-T6). These are situations where there is a series of turns, the following one dictating the exit of the previous turn.
  19. It's a big subject at the schools these days, we see it a lot. One point that comes up as the cause is....too low turn entry speed. But...that has to be brought up gradually, or one gets into the minus is too much entry speed, a challenge to juggle. If it were easy, likely wouldn't be so much fun when you get it right :).
  20. Been universally liked by most for the position, and the handling (I'm riding it more aggressively in the turns than I did my 2018.
  21. Ergonomic changes are often influenced by marketing strategies. Manufacturer target marketing data is considered Top Secret in most any industry and rightly so, when you have a manufacturer competing on an international scale. For someone considering a BMW, unless you follow the brand and model development you wouldn't know that they made an ergonomic change from 2019 > 2020 and may think simply to buy the latest model your pockets can handle. I'll keep this in mind when I'm ready to buy.
  22. I know the video. I know the tuner and have had my bike tuned by him. I've consulted with him on reading my tires. The video confused me too, but only when trying to make it fit into CSS philosophy. He's not the only advocate of this timing method (I did a 2-up ride with such person who runs a long-standing school at an East Coast track). The best I can say about it, is that the goal is to untrain street habits with throttle shyness. However, it can become a potential issue if applied as a "this is how you ride' mantra as it will require the geometry to be setup with a bias to account for this style. Thanks for starting the discussion on it. I wanted to but didn't know a good way to discuss it; I'm glad you did.
  23. When I attended the school last year and rode the BMW, I was surprised how quickly I hit the limits of the wet mode. Prior to that I was timid with the throttle and the fact that it was a new to me bike and not mine was on my mind. I think you're suggesting that perhaps riders can approach the limits from the standpoint of starting with too much, allow the electronics to save them and learn how to come back inside the limits of the electronic nanny; interesting concept that I wonder has appeal to most riders in practical terms. I would HOPE that SRs help us in the beneficial sense of the desire to survive, because an electronic bike can certainly be crashed and it will still hurt.
  24. Just for the record, this is the best discussion ever. I have learned a TON here. Thanks to all!
  25. Start rolling on the throttle as soon as the steering action is complete and you are on the correct line through the corner. If you charge the turn, or over-cook it, you will be struggling to get on the correct line, or maybe even to stay on the blacktop! If this happens, no doubt your roll-on will be delayed until you get pointed where you need to be. If the road is damp or grip is low, good throttle control is that much more important.
  26. The very first thing I learned from Keith was from that classroom scene in the TOTW II video: "Once the throttle is cracked open, it is rolled on evenly, smoothly and constantly throughout remainder of turn." In my opinion, when I feel I need maintenance throttle it is because my entry speed was too low. I can't imagine getting on the gas before turn in. In some sections like turns 4/5/6 at SOW, I may not ever close the throttle all the way but just stop rolling on while turning.
  27. TOTWII has a chapter called “Steer for the Rear”
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