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Crash106

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Everything posted by Crash106

  1. Not trolling, just engaging in a lively discussion. May I say that I have played with this technique a LOT. When I say a LOT, I mean off and on for months--literally hours and hours and hours of riding time just on this one issue. What I HEAR is that entering a corner at 45 mph and turning "slowly," say 1 second from full upright to full lean, the tires hardly notice, I can hardly hear them working. Going around again, same corner, same entry speed, I "quick turn" the bike, say half a second from full upright to full lean, and the tires let out a terrified groan. Clearly the tires are working much harder when quick turning the bike. I can't believe I'm the only one who has noticed this. If you haven't heard the exact same thing, I suggest you go out and play in traffic some more. :-) (Any excuse for a ride, right?) So, it's raining in the Smokey Mountains and traction is low, which technique do you want to use? One that requires very little from the tire, or one that pushes the demand for traction? Or, you are on the track, you enter a turn after a long straight, you are going to be putting 1.1 Gs of force on your tires, any more than that and you'll slide out. Do you want to approach that limit all at once, or do you want to ease up to it with a sense of control? Yes, lean angle = G forces, but just as you load the front tire to get maximum braking, I believe you must load the front tire to get maximum turning.
  2. I'm slower than pig snot on a winter's day, but I just don't see the point of hanging off if I'm not running out of lean angle or traction. I'd rather just sit there and enjoy the ride rather than crawl back and forth across the bike for no good reason. I just don't enjoy riding that way. Too old and stiff and tired, I guess. For me, it's eyes up, watch the vanishing point and roll on the throttle.
  3. So Dylan, I'm looking at your body/foot position picture, and I see an imaginary line between the front tire and your knee, AND I see your foot at least 3"-4" above the pavement. At least it looks that way in the picture. So I'm thinking that's 3"-4" further down a rider could put their foot pegs. I know your not riding a touring bike, but why be more scrunched up and uncomfortable than you NEED to be?
  4. I imagine the physical limit is pretty darned high. On the other hand, what's the point of turning faster and faster if you: A. Don't need to turn that quickly B. Scare your passenger half to death (sorry, thought we were talking about street riding for a second), or C. Turn so quickly that you can't set your lean angle properly and either bounce up and down or scare your own self silly and blow the rest of the corner. Lately, I've been seeing how SLOWLY I can turn and find I'm more comfortable leaning slowly and therefore I can lean further (carry more speed?) into the corners. But maybe that's just me.
  5. I noticed this on the ST1300--as soon as I climbed on, my legs locked right in. The Concours 14 is nice, but I jut don't get that same "locked in" feeling.
  6. Welcome to the forum. Nice photo--you look pretty comfortable on that bike. Sometimes it is hard to know what you are doing wrong, but a good coach will spot it right away. You can also learn a lot just from riding behind better riders.
  7. Wow! He is one of those people who NEVER gives up.
  8. Two Examples: Rider R (racer) enters a corner already leaned over, then he adds more lean angle to make his apex. Rider C (cruiser) enters a corner and leans over, then he adds more lean angle to make his apex. Sounds similar to me. Both riders are adding lean angle while already leaned over. Granted, the above examples do not address Mugget's original concern about how FAST he can steer when already leaned over. When I am already leaned over in a corner then decide to add MORE lean angle, I tend to do it more slowly than when I do all my steering at once at the entrance to the corner. I'm extra careful because I don't want to add lean angle and throttle at the same time, and I don't want to add lean angle too fast and start dragging hard parts. Basically, I take it slow because I'm a clumsy lout and have a hard time walking down a hallway without bumping into the walls never mind ride a motorcycle, however, as long as I don't run out of tire tread, I don't think the TIRES care if I lean them from straight up to 45 degrees or from 35 to 45 degrees. So, IMHO, a skilled rider, such as Mugget, certainly CAN quick steer the bike when leaned over, but it takes a bit of finesse. (Is that any clearer? I am sorry if I have expressed this badly. )
  9. Okay--the short version: Sometimes it is okay, in my opinion, to lean in, then lean in some more. For example: Here are a couple of riders violating the One Steering Input rule, and making it work at about -1:14 to -1:05.
  10. Bad news, Mugget--you are now riding your track bike like a Harley! A classic way to ride a heavy cruiser on the street is to enter a corner by going around the outside of the turn. In other words, you tip the bike in at, say 10 degrees of lean. Then, when you see the apex and all is clear (no trucks or squids in your lane), you make a possitive turn toward the apex and lean in to a frieghtening (on a cruiser) 20-degrees. This type of a line is called Tip-in Turn-in. It is actually a safe and conservative way to ride on the street. I also see a lot of MotoGP riders using this technique. They approach the curve and TIP in till they about drag their boot, THEN they pick up their foot and actually TURN in. I don't stick my foot out, but I like this approach sometimes because once I have tipped in, I don't feel like I'm about to run off the road. Somehow, leaning MORE seems less scary to me than that initial lean from straight up. You must be pretty comfortable on our trak bike to notice this. Well done.
  11. Interesting poll. I like to play with the corners. Otherwise, on the street, you have to at least double the speed limit for it to feel fast. I have too many school loans to afford to ride on the track.
  12. Welcome, Tyler. Nice to hear from you. You've done three levels. What would you like to work on if/when you do Level 4? Just curious.
  13. Hello Dan, Welcome to the forums. Good to hear from you. My only question is, why you would want to ride that old Duc? Just kidding. That is a classic ride you have there, Dan.
  14. Lots of uses for the rear brake. It is not necessarily a nuclear detonator.
  15. What about Cornering Rule #1: One single steering action per turn? Here is my bonus question: How can this rule be true for both a wide "qualifying" line, and a "point-and-shoot" line? (Check page 62 of ONE of the twist books.)
  16. Welcome ANORXIC51, I was just talking to a lady in her 50s. Her husband rides a Gold Wing. She's been a passenger for years, but she is now a new rider on a midsize cruiser. Her first bike. She is very timid about cornering. It scares her to lean over at all. She feels like just riding the speed limit on some corners is PLENTY of excitement for her. It will be ages before she even WANTS to carry a lot of speed in the corners. So, I was thinking about her and about some of the thing KC said in TOTWII and wondered if riding straight and quick turning the bike would be something she would be interested in. So, I hopped on my Wing and tried squaring off the corners and quick turning the bike. I found that on a lot of curves, by the time I got the bike turned, I was up again and pointed straight down the road exiting the corner. Other corners, I had to spend more than a few seconds "hanging there" with the bike leaned over, but by squaring off the turns, I could cut that uncomfortable (for her) "hang time" down a lot. I was certainly able to keep up with traffic while squaring off the turns and riding the speed limit, I didn't need to do any hard braking either. Me? I like big swoopy turns on a nice, wide "qualifying line" (outside, inside, outside), but it was kind of relaxing to quick turn the bike and find myself riding along straight up and down again. It was kind of weird. It felt a little like cheating. Still, I found squaring off the corners and quick turning the bike to be a good way to spend as little time as possible in what some new riders feel is that "horribly-uncomfortable leaned-over I-am-about-to-fall position." You know, I wouldn't think of teaching quick turning to a new rider. They don't need it. Right? Why would you need to quick turn at 45 mph? Having played with it and thought about it from a beginners point of view, I wonder if squaring off the corners and quick turning the bike might not be a smart and stress resistant approach.
  17. Here's some food for thought: 1. Can you calculate your roll-off without locating your turn point? 2. Can you know how MUCH or how QUICKLY to turn the bike if you haven't located your chosen apex? 3. Are you willing to roll on the gas if you can't see where you want to go? I don't know how you could list vision as a discrete step - because there is no point where vision is no longer a requirement; as Keith says in the book, your vision should provide a flow of information. A choppy flow of visual info will result in choppy riding. I appreciate that you are thinking things through, but I'm curious - why are you trying to make a mantra? What are you trying to accomplish by doing so? Actually, Hotfoot, you hit on one of my big issues with the way most instructors teach the cornering process, vision either isn't mentioned at all, or is just reference once as one single step. Like you, I believe it has to be continuous, but how do you see AND setup, see AND steer. The mind has to either go back and forth between steps, or mentally focus on one thing (probably the seeing) and let everything else become automatic. Another reason I LIKE cornering mantas (processes steps) is that they make mental practice easier. It is easier for me to imagine my way around a corner when I have those process reference points, not just visual reference points on the road, but also kinetic steps. This kind of practice is very safe. I haven't been hurt doing it yet! AND I kind of like to think things through this way because it can help me get through a new corner, or get around a corner when I'm stressed or tired or just want a mental game to play as I ride. It gives me ONE way to move my attention around in the corner. It is also a nice crutch. On days when I can't ride with that effortless flow, I can always connect the dots and feel pretty good on the bike. I'm not stuck on using a mantra all the time. It's just a fun tool and good experience to try cornering in different ways. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
  18. I vote for textile. Leather is too hot--unless you really need that level of protection for track riding. Olympia Moto Sports Aerostitch Roadcrafter TourMaster MotoPort Joe Rocket I'm still trying to decide on one, but I'm leaning toward the Olympia (best value) or the Roadcrafter (easiest on-off).
  19. How about this thought process based on Kieth's Four Rules from TOTWII? CALCULATE your roll off carefully TURN ONCE as quickly as necessary ROLL ON through the remainder of the turn That's only THREE things. Hmm, but nothing about vision in there. No, wait! Maybe step one CALCULATE is ALL about vision.
  20. Sorry, but James R. Davis is wrong, as the following clip shows clearly. Just look at Flo's front wheel as she does the Intersection Drill. "Oh, but that's because she riding REALLY slow on a big cruiser!" I'm afraid not. Check it yourself. Glance down at your bars in a corner, after the lean angle is set, and you will see the bars--and so the front tire--are pointed INTO the curve. This is harder to see on big corners, but clearly visible on the tighter stuff. Unless you are running a car tire, you should not need inside bar pressure to keep the bike leaned over. On the other hand, pushing off the outside footpeg can help you lock into the tank, relax your upper body and gain instantly better control over both gas and steering.
  21. Welcome, Pa. Sorry to hear about your trackday get off. I am also planning to go to VIR and ride my own bike (can't handle the superbike riding position). I hope to sign up for August, but I need my tax return first. I hope you will write up a full report about the track. Any hints from veterans on hotels or inns near VIR?
  22. The Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches a four step cornering process and the catchy matnra: Slow, Look, Lean, Roll. I just read "Maximum Control" by Pat Hahn and for heavyweight street bikes, he recommends: Slow, Roll, Look, Press. So, what is the CSS mantra? Would it go like this? Pick an entrance point Roll off the gas Look for the apex Quick turn the bike Roll on (and KEEP rolling on) Just wondering.
  23. Hello, Old Guy: I'm another Old Guy. I think motorcycle boots should look like they looked when I first started to ride. Sooo, I'm saving my pennies for some nice Bates Custom Leather boots. http://www.batesleathers.com/images/boots/fastlane.jpg Of course, my preferred boots for actually touring are any light-weight over-the-ankle hiking boot. Even in my Gold Wing, I don't have room for two pairs of shoes, so my touring boots have to be supportive, protective and comfortable to walk in. If I can't walk around at my destination, I ain't a-wearing 'em!
  24. Dae, Here is visual games I like to play when I'm riding my bike. I call this game "The Open Road." It is a time and vision game. As you are riding, look well ahead of the bike and find the vanishing point--the place where the road vanishes, or disappears, from site. The road might curve and disappear, or vanish over a hill. Note some marker--a shadow, a sign, a tree--that you see at that point. Then, count how many seconds it takes you to travel from where you saw the vanishing point, to your arrival at that point. You keep score by time. You do NOT want to stare fixedly at the vanishing point you marked, or gaze mindlessly at the ever changing vanishing point as it moves in front of your bike. You DO want to keep checking the point you've marked, keep watching for traffic, and keep checking the new vanishing point as it shifts and changes in front of you. The game is to see how "far"--in seconds--you can see ahead of you. I tried this yesterday when I was out for a ride with my wife. The longest sighting distance I found was 59 seconds. More than once, I've seen problems so far ahead of me that I've applied my brakes and moved the bike before the car in front of me has even noticed the problem developing right in front of them. If you decide to try "The Open Road Game," please report back with what you learned.
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