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Everything posted by mugget

  1. Just to be clear - when I talk about "maximum lean" in my own riding I'm talking about my lean angle in any given corner, not the actual possible maximum. But if tyres start sliding a lot more than usual in combination with greater than usual lean angle, it probably doesn't mean that I can't lean more, go faster, etc. - but I'd sure be paying careful attention to that feedback and wouldn't push too much more. Yeah plenty of fast guys don't need a massive knee slider budget for a year of racing. I did some training with Wayne Maxwell once and he goes through about 3 sets of sliders a year, which is not that much... But I am starting to get the idea that using knee sliders might have any benefit now, I don't really slide on corner entry, mid-corner - mainly on throttle. But as my riding changes and (hopefully!) improves I am starting to see how I could use it. Will keep that one in the bag until then. Cheers guys. And yes I think we can all agree that knee sliders are one of the biggest tools in Marquez bag of tricks! Haha
  2. Hi all, I was just reading one of Dave Moss post on Facebook and it really got me thinking... here's the post: And here's my comment on that post: Very interesting post... lots to think about. Makes me wonder if I have been missing the benefits of an important learning tool all this time... Like everyone when I started out I viewed "knee down" almost as the pinnacle of riding technique. As time went on I realised that getting a knee down is not an end goal in itself, it's the product of correct riding technique. I also thought that I didn't want to limit myself and stop leaning as soon as my knee touched down - better to feel the actual tyre grip and let that determine your maximum lean angle. So I just let my knee hang comfortably and it doesn't bother me that it almost never touches down. I'm still pretty happy with my riding and I'm within ~6 seconds of very fast racers at my local track (1:06 vs 1:00 flat, where anything quicker than 1:15 is considered pretty fast for the average rider). Talking about front end slides, I feel like this needs to be qualified - under what circumstances is the front end sliding? In combination with trail braking? I don't trail brake much, and if you're entering a corner with no brakes I've actually found that to be the safest way to increase corner speed and push myself on corner entry and mid-corner; the gains come from getting the bike to maximum lean in as short a time as possible, and if you're really turning in that quickly we know that the rear end will slide before the front does. So I wonder how I can use knee sliders as a tool in my current riding level and style? Or does it's use as a tool really only come into play when heavy trail braking is involved? Thanks in advance for any comments, this seems like a very interesting discussion.
  3. Not using my knee sliders, my thoughts on maximum lean angle and gauging surface traction are that it can be done simply by paying attention to feedback from the tyres and adjusting my riding based on this. For example if I was using more lean angle than usual and noticed increased sliding at maximum lean I'd take that to mean that it's pretty close to the maximum lean angle the tyres can take. The other thing having gone so long without actually using knee sliders is that it's almost at a point where I feel it would be a distraction if I was regularly using them without actually being close to what the tyres and bike can do. If I only have $10 to spend, I'd rather keep as much as I can focused on what the tyres are doing instead of spending $1 or $2 here and there whenever a slider touches down and thinking "hhmmm light touch" or "wow, that dug in a lot..." My exhaust (M4 GP) is the most likely part to scrape (already has) and I have rearsets, so there isn't really a risk of dragging hard parts, so the way I see it using the knee slider for that reason just isn't worth it for me. I'm happy with the way my riding is progressing, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything not using sliders but it just made me think if there's any other way I could or should be using them after seeing that post from Dave Moss...
  4. Ok so if someone was exploring trail braking (moreso deep trail braking?) or raising their corner entry/mid-corner speed I can see that could be an area where using the knee slider could be beneficial, perhaps mostly as a safety device to save slides?
  5. Can Quick Turn Be Overdone?

    Wish I had a computer to look at the video frame by frame... but I don't think there's anything too mysterious happening here... For those who have ever done a quick change of direction through a slalom or short chicane you might have noticed that it takes very little throttle (or any at all, if the steering rate is so quick?) to lift the front wheel as the bike is coming upright on the change of direction. This is because the steering rate is so great, you have the inertia of the bike coming from lean to upright, the mass of the bike combined with that inertia means that it wants to keep going up - hence lifting the front wheel. If you're then trying to lean the bike over in the other direction while the front wheel is in the air... well you can guess what happens. I've also seen this with strange geometry/weighting. It was on a work delivery scooter, bit of weight in the top box, a quick-ish u-turn or even just straightening up quickly out of a regular corner would bring the front wheel off the ground and cause a decent tank slapper if not controlled properly. Given the extremes that MotoGP racers are dealing with it wouldn't surprise me if Vinales front wheel came off the ground and caused him to crash.
  6. Better Body Position for Steering

    I thought of this when I saw your post... Dave Moss comes out with some very insightful comments every now and then: Take particular note of your clip on angle as well as the position relative to the forks. To me moving the clip ons 30mm in front of the forks is a fairly radical setup, but what I take away from this is that the riders comfort and ergonomic fit is the highest priority. Move the controls to wherever you need them, the bike is always going to steer better for you if you can use the controls more effectively.
  7. Coasting = Maintenance Throttle?

    Seems like we have crossed wires here... The point I am getting at is that there is no reason to view coasting as something bad or undesirable. In fact unless someone is an exceptionally skilled rider and is either using brake or throttle all of the time, then they have to be coasting to some degree! Why is it that people tend to avoid coasting, why does it make them feel uncomfortable? Thinking back to before I had any type of training, I definitely felt uncomfortable when coasting - and this was wholly due to the fact that I didn't have a clear understanding of correct throttle use and as such my line choice left a lot to be desired (hugging the curb, riding constant radius lines, etc.) Now the way I ride has changed drastically. I never ride on a constant radius line, therefore my steering input is only completed moments before I have identified my exit point, know that I am going to hit it and begin to open up the throttle. If I am "cruising" around the track, then my entire steering input is definitely completed while I am coasting. As I am getting more comfortable with higher corner entry speeds I am gradually adding trail braking - but still finish the majority of the steering input while coasting. Eventually I hope to be able to completely eliminate coasting, but that will be quite a big step and is still a ways off. Maybe we are thinking of vastly different riding levels, but to me there is simply no option between coasting or using throttle mid-corner. That is because the line choices available mean that there is no in-between, effectively it becomes possible to late apex every corner so that you're ready for throttle as soon as turn-in is complete. Edited to add > Coasting is not always a problem, it can be a solution... depending on how you use it.
  8. Coasting = Maintenance Throttle?

    Hhmmm... unless it's a fast corner or a slow entry into a faster corner, I tend to have the throttle closed when coming into a corner. PGI - Yes I think that definition of charging a corner is pretty spot on. I don't think it has so much to do with chopping the throttle or abrupt brake control (they are riding errors in their own right). The reason I made that comment about coasting into corners is that it's absolutely the safest way I've found to build confidence and work up to a higher corner entry speed. When you realise what the biggest danger is you'll probably agree that coasting is safe... think about every single racing crash you've seen where they've gone down on corner entry (one rider on their own, without being skittled by another). It all has to do with the front brake! The front locks up, and they go down! Therefore if you don't touch the front brake you completely eliminate that risk. It is also a good exercise to help refine your sense of speed, much like the "no brake" drills at the school. As we were told - if you can't set your speed within 300 metres of straight you have no hope of doing it within 100m with brakes. The other big benefit to being comfortable with coasting is when you're riding double apex corners or want to take a wide/late turn-in and still be able to tighten your line and make your apex. What happens if you're riding in a circle with constant throttle, then roll off the throttle..? Your line will tighten - exactly the same as when you coast into a turn. In combination with the Hook Turn this can open up so many line choices, like being able to ride your 1000 on a line that only 300's would otherwise ride!
  9. Coasting = Maintenance Throttle?

    This caught my attention... why do you call coasting bad? It made me curious because coasting into corners has been one of my preferred corner entry methods for a long time. Consider what happens when you turn into a corner and don't touch the throttle - what would happen to your line? Would that ever be useful to you?
  10. Lowering the body

    I think there's a lot of emphasis on getting your head low, but that isn't everything... as Cobie alluded to, Level 3 explains everything about it. I would just add that it's similar to knee down - if you are trying to get your knee down - if you're trying to get your head low, then you're doing it wrong. These shouldn't be goals in themselves, but are end results of correct riding technique. Before I did Level 3 I would try and hold my body in all kinds of uncomfortable positions through the corner. Afterwards, I wasn't getting anywhere near as tired, riding took less effort and my body movement were more effective - I was overall a much better, faster rider.
  11. Heat Cycles

    On the topic of thinner tread having less grip - isn't it the same rubber compound all the way through the tyre? Or do you mean less overall grip/less grip remaining? Jaybird - can only speak from my experience, but knowing how much tyre I use on a day I wouldn't start a day unless I have enough tread to get me through. In saying that I have once gone right past the tread wear marker and worn the tread sipes right down on the side and didn't notice it ride any differently...
  12. After-market throttle cables

    Hhmmm... maybe it's just something you get used to, seeing as there are so many different throttle ratios on different bikes anyway.
  13. After-market throttle cables

    Interesting, I've never really felt the need for this sort of thing or a "quick throttle". I think lots of guys swap the R6 throttle onto Gixxers but I've never had a problem that I felt I needed to fix. I do have to wonder how it would affect high-RPM rear wheel slides if you have less throttle range to manage that with... That has always been the one big turn off for me.
  14. Lowering the Risk for New Riders

    Joe really need experience. But there are two kinds of experience - bad and good. It doesn't do you any good if you have "10 years of riding experience", but it's all bad experience! You can gain good experience through the application of systematic training that teaches the core basics of motorcycling. I wish I had started on a dirt bike - lower speeds and having a little spill at low speed on dirt sure is a lot less intimidating than crashing on the street (or heaven forbid, track)! Don't over estimate what is required of you at CSS just because they're held on a race track... My first time on track at CSS I was actually thrown completely because everyone was riding so much slower than what I was used to seeing on a track!! All the students are there to learn, doing the same drills and the majority will be riding at a similar pace. The way I would describe it to anyone wondering is this - if you're comfortable making the bike stop, go and turn, then you're ready to go to the school!
  15. Octane Rating.... What Is It?

    Just coming back to this thread now as I've had some new questions raised after talking with someone who was adamant that all engines should always be fuelled with the highest possible octane rating, that they will always run better with a higher octane fuel. So - is it actually true that a higher octane fuel will "burn slower", or do the additives only change the volatility? Meaning that higher octane fuel is more resistant to pre-ignition, but that once there is spark both low/high octane fuels will ignite just as easily and burn just as quickly?? This also lead me to the subject of carbon deposits - if an engine has minimum requirements of 91 octane and we used 98, will that cause more carbon deposits? From what I have read some people say yes because the higher octane fuel won't have a complete/proper burn - others say it won't make a difference because the 98 will all burn just the same? Any info would be much appreciated! Cheers
  16. Hi all, At a track day recently I was watching some of the riders in fast group enter a particular turn, one of them was riding at tyre-blistering pace and what really made me take notice was the fact that he was entering this fast sweeping turn still on the throttle! I have never noticed anyone do that before, so I kept watching and sure enough lap after lap it was the same thing. He would just roll off the throttle at or after the apex. I meant to go and talk to him but didn't get a chance... Here's the track I'm talking about, this particular corner is called "The Kink", first corner after the straight: It's pretty fast through there, for me it's 5th gear easily 200km/h+ (125mph+). Previously I have always been rolling off the throttle and turning in, then back on the throttle to accelerate to the Karusel. But when I saw this other rider using throttle into the Kink I started thinking hey, why not? There's plenty of room and I accelerate out of it anyway so obviously I'm not going into it as fast as I can? Well here is the reason for "why not", summed up by Hotfoot in this previous thread: Add to that the fact that I have thought about it before, but have always been worried about inadvertent throttle input while making steering inputs... But I thought I would just start out giving it a try anyway... after seeing someone else do it... well it must be possible! Since it's such a fast corner, quick flick isn't really doable (or at least not possible to the same extent as slower corners) so I didn't feel that using throttle would compromise the steering input. I started out just adding some throttle to reduce deceleration, still rolling off before the apex. And gradually kept adding more throttle, but still not accelerating into the turn and still rolling off before/at the apex and accelerating out. This was towards the end of the day so I didn't get much time to keep experimenting with that, but was pretty chuffed with it so far considering that previously I wouldn't have even thought about it, let alone have been game enough to try it. I should be back next month and will keep working on this. So I just wanted to ask how others have handled similar turns? And what other tracks have the same kind of setup? First one that comes to mind is the big left hand kink in the straight at Laguna Seca? I have read that when races were held at this track back in the day, racers on 600's would be able to hold it open through the Kink in 6th gear on a really good lap with fresh tyres. But that same article mentioned that lots of people kidded themselves that they held the throttle flat through there as well... My thoughts at the moment are that I should be able to work up to accelerating into the turn, tapering off to more of a neutral/maintenance throttle nearing the apex just to reduce engine braking. Next step would be to see how the tyres and bike are handling that, if the bike is stable then trying to maintain some light acceleration all the way through the turn. Trying to think of anything from the Twist books/DVD that would apply to this type of situation, but I've leant of my copy of the Twist 2 book & DVD to a friend. Help a guy out! Cheers!
  17. Redding Shows The Way!

    Haha yeah that is a cool photo from practice. On the grid before the race one of the commentators asked him why he was trying to get his helmet on the ground, he said he was just enjoying himself! And after the race on the cool down lap he did actually touch his helmet on the ground. Not trying to achieve anything other than just playing around! Lean angle is already so high, so he just decided to dip his head down & see if it was possible. Maybe he also saw the "Ghillie Man" video and wanted to join the club.
  18. No doubts about corner exit, that is exactly as I would describe it as well. But throttle use at the beginning of a turn... that is how I used to ride, which made it pretty much impossible to be fast or smooth in double apex or decreasing radius turns, or to quick steer and use a late turn point. I think I have misunderstood something or we are not quite on the same page... Ok, putting aside the thread topic for a moment - if rolling on the throttle makes the bike more stable and gives more traction then I want it to happen as early in the corner as possible (stability & traction are good things!). But since it locks you on a line which is an opening/widening line out of the turn then I wouldn't want to apply the throttle too early, before I'm confident that I will be able to reach my exit point (running wide off the track is not so good!). What I mean by "re-apply throttle" is that I enter turns with zero throttle. (With the exception of just starting to experiment with this one fast turn.) Here's how I approach turns at the moment: Spot the turn-in point & look into the turn Roll-off throttle (used brakes if required) to adjust speed Still looking thru the turn, initiate steering input when I reach the turn-in point Spot the exit point/exit line When I reach a point in the turn when I know that throttle application will produce the desired exit line, then I re-apply throttle. I'd say that majority of the time this would be after the apex. Basically whenever I re-apply throttle I'm solidly into the turn exit, not spending much time at all with that 6th gear roll-on feeling. Aiming to apply throttle as smoothly and quickly as possible to get back into some good acceleration & use all available rear traction. I would also say that there isn't much time mid-turn where I'm just coasting or doing nothing. Steering inputs would last until right up to the apex or just before, so there's a pretty quick transition from steering input to throttle input. Please tell me there isn't a massive flaw in my riding and I've been doing it wrong all this time? Haha
  19. Hmm... I've gotta get my hands on my book again and re-read that section... But I've always taken that 6th gear roll-on as the type of acceleration that would happen when the throttle is re-applied on corner exit (or mid-corner or whenever the throttle is re-applied). With that "6th gear" roll-on being almost a base level acceleration that increases from there. 1) I would begin the "6th gear" roll-on basically as soon as I re-apply throttle in a turn. And as a general rule I only apply throttle once I'm sure that I will make my intended exit line and not run wide etc. For instance when I "crack on" the throttle I would aim to go straight into that 6th gear roll-on feel (generally speaking). 2) Once the throttle is applied it should be rolled on smoothly throughout the remainder of the turn.
  20. Thanks for the replies everyone. Gives me a bit more faith in myself to know that I'm pretty spot on with my approach. Still, it's good to be able to have it confirmed & talk it through since it's all new territory for me. How far leaned over... me, doesn't feel like really high lean. Definitely other slower corners on the track where I use more lean angle. But it also depends how fast you're taking the corner... I would expect my lean angle to increase as I get faster through there. The fastest riders would be going through there with knee slider on the ground - so plenty of lean for them! Interesting points csmith12. Times like this have me rethinking life decisions, thinking I should have started on a 250 instead of a 600 and relatively quickly moving to a 1000. But not to worry, I'm still having massive amounts of fun! Thanks Hotfoot! *phew* No kiss of death! I'm relieved! Definitely lots of factors to consider though... actually just reading through all of this makes me think that this type of riding might even be more challenging than trail braking? It seemed like I "naturally" started to try out a bit of trail braking much much earlier compared to when I thought about using throttle through a turn. Then again, maybe I did have the wrong idea about it and think of it as the kiss of death... who knows. Cheers Benny, definitely no problems here with lock on. Actually I've always seemed to be really comfortable and the most stable in high speed turns. Points noted T-McKeen. Definitely no sudden steering inputs happening in this fast turn, and at that speed the front end hasn't shown any signs of instability so far. But it will definitely take quite a few more laps before I manage to neutralise deceleration using throttle, then next step is to see if I can actually accelerate through. I have always been a very cautious rider, zero crashes on track and I aim to keep it that way. Interesting that you mention courage though... personally I feel like that has much less to do with my riding now that I'm looking at things objectively - it seems more like a simple equation of the result I want to achieve and what I need to do to make it happen. I guess I take a more rational approach to my riding now, much less emotional involvement. That kind of outlook kind of takes away the fun when I go to a themepark and go on the big "scary" rides, but if that's the price for being a safe, fast rider I'm okay with it. Next question - I was just thinking about how acceleration out of a turn can be described as similar to the acceleration if you roll-on 6th gear at 100km/h or 60mph on the highway. Is there a similar description for acceleration through a turn, can the same apply? Or maybe it's quite a different feeling because there's more cornering forces involved and lots of different factors like the speed, lean angle etc.?
  21. Scraping Parts

    I'm just trying to catch up on this forum, saw this topic and it took my interest... Some questions - is no throttle roll-on the real reason for dragging parts here? Does correct throttle usage have anything to do with applying throttle at a particular part of a turn? What would have happened if he started to roll-on the throttle before he scraped, in order to try and prevent the bike from scraping? At that stage wasn't lean angle still increasing? Let me know your thoughts...
  22. Video Critiquing

    Just had to reply to this - you're right it seems a unnatural because it is completely unnatural! And that's why anyone who is riding by instinct/intuition/"natural ability" is doing something wrong... By definition it's not possible to correctly undertake an unnatural activity by using our natural instincts, which just goes to show how important training is! Haha, I think he was playing it up for you. I wonder if that still applies when the rider he's passing missed his own brake marker and carried an extra 20km/h into the corner and is about to run off the track?
  23. Drill For Learning To Trust The Tires?

    mazur - just a comment on the clutch plates glazing. When I went for my very first test to get the learners license the instructors told us not to worry about the clutch, just to drag it and slip it as much as we need, that we wouldn't hurt it. That's how I've been riding every single bike I've ever ridden since. And no clutch problems at all. Basically motorbikes are designed for that, they have something in the region of 3-4x as many clutch plates as a car for example. So don't sweat it, drag the clutch as you needed. EricG, glad to hear you've been trusting your tyres more and more. Faith works, more faith works better. But I was a bit scared to read about your "toe test"! A couple of questions for you - do you think that method is an accurate, consistent gauge over a wide range of conditions? Could the attention spent on your toe test be better used elsewhere, perhaps directed towards an aspect of the tyres operation?
  24. Embrace Risk | Code Break

    Well this is an interesting topic... so far we have 1 for risk, and 3 for control!! Count me as another one who identifies with the "control" aspect of riding. If someone asked me if I enjoyed the risk in riding I would probably say "no" and follow it up with "what risk??" Obviously there's the potential for risk, but I'm generally a risk-averse kinda guy. The way I see it is that when I'm riding a bike, I'm in control and I just don't do things that are risky. I don't see it as an inherently risky activity. After attending CSS I'm riding way faster than I ever have, but at the same time safer. My record of zero on-track crashes remains. I will also put my hand up for the wanting to go faster part of it. But again, I don't see it as speed = risk. For me it's more about developing my skills and gaining even more control. If I can go faster and faster, all while being in control - that's what I really enjoy. If there was a sketchy situation that I was unsure of and I thought there was a 50/50 chance I'd make it, I wouldn't go for it. Being as risk-averse as I am, my judgement of a situation like that would probably be on the conservative side and chances are that I would actually make it, but I prefer to avoid the risk and build up to it methodically. Maybe it has something to do with going fast, succeeding, remaining in control and conquering the risk? It's also interesting that the majority (if not all?) successful racers are not the same kind of risk-taking yahoos who might enjoy things like base jumping or Russian roulette! Those racers are fairly calm and sedate when they're off the bike (and probably still fairly calm when they're on the bike) - you wouldn't think that MotoGP World Champion and fishing would go together, but there you have it in Casey Stoner! Or maybe my brain is cross-wired and I'm actually a secret risk-manic adrenalin-junkie who has the concepts of risk and control completely reversed!
  25. I guess this raises the bar for all those people who like to show off by dragging a hand along the ground through a corner. But how did he get into the corner without using his hands? Must have been that "body steering" I keep hearing about... (I kid, I kid.)