BikeSpeedman

Have you seen Don Canet's R6 lap of Thunderhill?

9 posts in this topic

Don put in a 2:00 around Thunderhill's 3 mile East on the new R6. You can watch it here: http://www.cycleworld.com/onboard-video-one-lap-aboard-2017-yamaha-yzf-r6-at-thunderhill-raceway-park?dom=rss-default&src=syn

Okay, so Don is better than I am and he was following Josh Hayes who also might possibly be better than I am. ;) The fact that his time was faster or that his speed was better than mine at every entry, apex, and exit wasn't even mildly shocking. But the lap itself taught me a lot about what I'm doing wrong. I had the benefit of his speedo throughout most of the key points on track and made notes.

What I found that was actually shocking to me is how hard he accelerated while still substantially leaned over. He'd gain +20mph from apex to exit everywhere on the track. While I've been rolling on the throttle as I'm lifting the bike up, he's full throttle at pretty big lean angles. I thought that was a recipe for high sides. One thing that blows me away (I really recommend you watch it if you haven't seen it yet) is that it appears he doesn't even roll off a bit to transition from going to the exit of 14 to back into 15. He apexes 14 at 55 and assumes a constant arc that takes him to track-out at 77, back to apex of 15 at 87 and track out at 98.

I'm going to start incrementally feeding in more and more gas earlier in the turn and hopefully feel the limit before being thrown off. My goal isn't to achieve Josh Hayes or Don Canet speeds but to mimic their approach as much as I can with my skill level. eg, Thinking of the how to maximize drive from the apex to fully stood up.

 

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Hmmmm.....bookmarking this thread to come back later.

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Since you are looking into traction at varying lean angles, you may want to read about the current race tires, there is so much interesting information out there about the shape of the contact patch when leaned over, and the amount of grip available at various lean angles (given good track conditions and correct tire temperature), it is astonishing to look at what a full race tire can do, and to learn about the differences in profiles and compounds of street versus race tires, and compare longevity versus grip versus price and versatility... there's a lot to know, and the type of tire makes an appreciable difference in the amount one can drive when leaned over. 

So does good suspension, so if you get bored reading about tires you can always start investigating the intricacies of suspension tuning. In that arena I always feel like the more I learn the more I realize how MUCH MORE there is to learn! 

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Yeah, I saw they were on R10s which might be stickier than Super Corsa SPs. I can't remember. So there's rider talent, tires, suspension (but I seriously doubt a stock R6 has better susies than my 675R), etc.

Just to clarify, I'm not thinking it would be wise to go back to Thunderhill and just try to duplicate all of those numbers. But to see if I can treat the line from turn in to track out at 14 as an opportunity to accelerate that shouldn't be wasted. Likewise from track out of 14 to track out of 15. It's not a straight. It won't be full throttle but I'm definitely leaving some on the table.

One thing that his lap made me think about is the difference between how much it feels like I'm leaning versus how much I'm really leaning. eg, turning in to 14 at roughly the same speed as Don, I sometimes get my knee down but it's a reach. It feels like I must be at 60 degrees but obviously I'm closer to 45. So if I feel like I'm carrying ridiculous lean, I'll be wrong about how much drive my tire can take before I overdo it.

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Anyone know what a 600 Race lap is around there ?   Since I'm not familiar with the circuit a 2:00 min lap is very arbitrary without something to compare it too.   Obviously they arn't going slow,   But it doesn't look like a record setting pace either .

 

Just curious B)

 

 

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I found an article from 2011 which gave the AFM 600 record at the time as 1:49. Pretty good considering during preseason testing this year, Tony Elias led the way on a GSXR-1000 at 1:46.

 

 

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On 3/27/2017 at 5:08 PM, Hotfoot said:

Since you are looking into traction at varying lean angles, you may want to read about the current race tires, there is so much interesting information out there about the shape of the contact patch when leaned over, and the amount of grip available at various lean angles (given good track conditions and correct tire temperature), it is astonishing to look at what a full race tire can do, and to learn about the differences in profiles and compounds of street versus race tires, and compare longevity versus grip versus price and versatility... there's a lot to know, and the type of tire makes an appreciable difference in the amount one can drive when leaned over. 

So does good suspension, so if you get bored reading about tires you can always start investigating the intricacies of suspension tuning. In that arena I always feel like the more I learn the more I realize how MUCH MORE there is to learn! 

Thanks for inspiring me to look deeper!

Okay, so shortly after our conversation, I began to test rear edge grip coming out of the corners. I had a lot more grip/drive than I had given my bike credit for. The front did feel a little unstable but the rear was hooked up. I got home and noticed the rear was chewed up and went to the very edge. Weird for road riding bc I wasn't leaning any more than I had been. I'm guessing just an issue of putting more load on the rear squishing the tire more and getting the contact patch all the way to the edge.

Anyway, I remembered your post and started looking for info about improving drive out of corners. It was recommended to bump up the reb and comp in the front to keep the front from lifting under throttle. I started there (2 clicks up from my baseline and equal to Triumph's recommended Race setting). The difference was amazing. So much more stability and control. It feels so good now.

But then last night, I took a look at my rear shock settings. I was in full comfort mode in the rear, 5 or 6 clicks from Race. So I decided to give it a shot and had my first chance to test it on the way to work this morning. It feels fantastic. Can't wait to get back on the track and beat Josh Hayes. survive in the B group without getting run over. :rolleyes:

 

 

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2 hours ago, BikeSpeedman said:

Weird for road riding bc I wasn't leaning any more than I had been. I'm guessing just an issue of putting more load on the rear squishing the tire more and getting the contact patch all the way to the edge.

 

 

ya know what makes more sense? Prolly just left over from track days I did last summer and I'm just now noticing the area that hasn't been used since then.

Speaking of tires, tho, I have a track day on May 29. Hope you guys will have the Q3+ in my size by then.

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3 hours ago, BikeSpeedman said:

Thanks for inspiring me to look deeper!

Okay, so shortly after our conversation, I began to test rear edge grip coming out of the corners. I had a lot more grip/drive than I had given my bike credit for. The front did feel a little unstable but the rear was hooked up. I got home and noticed the rear was chewed up and went to the very edge. Weird for road riding bc I wasn't leaning any more than I had been. I'm guessing just an issue of putting more load on the rear squishing the tire more and getting the contact patch all the way to the edge.

Anyway, I remembered your post and started looking for info about improving drive out of corners. It was recommended to bump up the reb and comp in the front to keep the front from lifting under throttle. I started there (2 clicks up from my baseline and equal to Triumph's recommended Race setting). The difference was amazing. So much more stability and control. It feels so good now.

But then last night, I took a look at my rear shock settings. I was in full comfort mode in the rear, 5 or 6 clicks from Race. So I decided to give it a shot and had my first chance to test it on the way to work this morning. It feels fantastic. Can't wait to get back on the track and beat Josh Hayes. survive in the B group without getting run over. :rolleyes:

 

 

What a great post! Lots of good info in here and I am really glad you are experimenting and exploring - sounds like you are approaching it in a very smart way, working on your throttle control first, then changing one thing at a time on the bike to feel the difference each change makes. A lot of riders try changing a bunch of things all at once (different tires or tire pressure, and multiple suspension changes all at once), you are smart to take that systematic approach and notice - and write down! - the difference from each change. Well done and thank you for sharing, this was very interesting to read.

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