apextc Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hello everyone, I'm a newbie (7 track days so far) and love the sport! As part of my learning curve and doing my search in our 77 pages in the cornering section I'm trying to find techniques and suggestions on how to hang off your right(bad) side? A good analogy I got was that initially this is natural as most people even driving cars may not be as smooth turning right vs. left. I am confident, relaxed, predictable and smooth when it comes to taking left hand turns but anything to my right...... I grip the bars like I'm holding on for dear life, have a hard time sliding back to the middle w/o upsetting the bike and just don't know how to initiate the turn and stay steady when cornering right. Coaches and friends who have followed me and viewing pictures I guess I am not hanging off enough and maybe not digging my thigh into the tank enough? Anything I can practice off the track? Any suggestions on where to apply pressure when cornering right? A great piece of advice that helped me thus far is to move my hips around the tank while digging my thigh into the tank. Thank you everyone in advance for responding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 How does your lock on between your left boot and the bike feel? My heelguard on my left peg is shorter than my right and that is affecting my lock on and confidence with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apextc Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 How does your lock on between your left boot and the bike feel? My heelguard on my left peg is shorter than my right and that is affecting my lock on and confidence with it. I never paid attention to but I can say for sure that when I make left hand turns I use the arc of my right foot to apply pressure to raise my knee slightly to lock on the tank..... which to me is comfortable. I'm 5'11.5 tall. I'm curios if adjusting or somehow making the left foot peg or heel guard higher or lower will help me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 One thing that is different from left to right side is the throtttle hand. When you hang off on the left side, your right arm (the throttle arm) is draped across the tank, when you hang off on the right side, your right arm can be a bit cramped because it is folded up. How are you holding the throttle? If you feel like that you don't have room with a normal handlebar grip, try changing to the "screwdriver grip" on the inside handlebar. Since I'm 6'6", I have some challenges in fitting to the bike on the inside, so I have changed to use the screwdriver grip with my inside hand on both sides of the bike. On to some questions: Can you come up with any particular reason why you have such lack of confidence on the right turns? - have you crashed in a right turn? Do you feel that there is something different in terms of vision, between right and left turns? Any broken bones or similar that limits you from doing things on the right vs left turns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apextc Posted September 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thank you for responding..... so... How are you holding the throttle? If you feel like that you don't have room with a normal handlebar grip, try changing to the "screwdriver grip" on the inside handlebar. I believe I'm holding it like a screw driver. For sure I know I make a conscious effort to use my first 4 fingers to grip the throttle to avoid fully squeezing the throttle. Since I'm 6'6", I have some challenges in fitting to the bike on the inside, so I have changed to use the screwdriver grip with my inside hand on both sides of the bike. On to some questions: Can you come up with any particular reason why you have such lack of confidence on the right turns? - have you crashed in a right turn? No I have not crashed but what I *feel* is like my left leg is not confidently locked on to the tank. When I make a left hand turn I feel like I have full control of my right leg and IF i wanted I could wiggle my toes when making a turn. On the other hand making a right hand turn I feel like I cant move my right leg as freely and my left leg feels like it's just applying pressure on the peg. Do you feel that there is something different in terms of vision, between right and left turns? The best way I can answer this is that I don't feel like I am kissing the mirror when making a right turn. I feel like im just sliding off sideways. Any broken bones or similar that limits you from doing things on the right vs left turns? thankfully no. Just a novice taking it track day by track day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Nothing personal but how is your leg strength? Some of the questions I am asking are because I feel like I am in the same place as you in regards to right hand turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apextc Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Nothing personal but how is your leg strength? Above average. My squat and leg press are strong but the one area I know I need strength is my core. That being I seriously see 270LB(122KG) and large frame men and women corner better Some of the questions I am asking are because I feel like I am in the same place as you in regards to right hand turns. Totally understand, please share any tips, tricks and techniques that worked for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonniB Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Try filming yourself on the bike from behind, when the bike is on a pitstand (and securely tied down), take your time and get into your cornering position. Then review the footage and make some adjustments, try some stuff out, take notice of your shoulders, foot placement and head/neck angle from side to side. On the side that feels good, take note of your lock in points, and try position yourself in the same exact points (of course opposite) on the weak side. Doing this in the garage, with no stress of braking zones, no fellow trackdayer looking at your silly poses and the comfort of shorts and a tshirt, really makes difference. Then put on all your kit when you're happy and make sure that it still works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchase Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 The right hand turn issue is common. Honestly I have trouble with it myself from time to time. There are two important controls on the right side grip of a motorcycle. One's the brake. The other is the throttle. Brakes and throttles require a lot of fine motor skills to operate. Big heavy handed inputs on either of these controls have major consequences and we all subconsciously know that. On the left side you just have the clutch and nothing else. A small mistake on the clutch is not that big of a deal. A small mistake on the throttle or brake can crash you. The "screw driver" grip hand position works if you use it but it feels different. It takes time and practice to develop the muscle memory to feel 100% comfortable. I had it down for a while until I started heavier braking later into right hand corners complicating the control and grip action on that side. Just keep practicing. It will feel awkward for a while and then one day it will just click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmith12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 The screwdriver grip on the throttle side is harder on the right than on the left. Having access to the controls is priority, but governed by confidence. What I mean is... If you feel you need access to the brakes at a moment's notice, it will be much harder to grip the controls side like my pic below (above average aggressive bp). Getting the turn in point, line and entry speed right is paramount for confidence to adjust the grip! Before you even go as far as riding, you should sit on your bike and get the ergos as close as possible. Wrists in line with the levers and levers + bars at comfortable angles for example. Bumm back from the tank but not too far back to get a good lock on the bike is the secret sauce to being light on the bars enough to grip them as you see fit. How is your seating position helpful or hurtful to your lock on the bike and grip on the bars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchase Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Csmith12. That's an awesome photo!!! Very relaxed looking. It's ironic that you have speed written on the side of your helmet. You look like you are casually adjusting the speed knob! If I were writing a book on riding I would totally steal that photo to demonstrate the screwdriver grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmith12 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Thanks!!! This one is even better but on the left. My only issue with with ankle stress (both sides). Maybe some of those cool new CSS rearsets would help in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchase Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 That one is awesome too! Thanks for sharing both of those photos. Seeing someone accomplishing something that is difficult with ease is very inspiring. I also struggle a bit with right turns vs my left turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apextc Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Having access to the controls is priority, but governed by confidence. What I mean is... If you feel you need access to the brakes at a moment's notice, it will be much harder to grip the controls side like my pic below (above average aggressive bp). Getting the turn in point, line and entry speed right is paramount for confidence to adjust the grip! Before you even go as far as riding, you should sit on your bike and get the ergos as close as possible. Wrists in line with the levers and levers + bars at comfortable angles for example. Bumm back from the tank but not too far back to get a good lock on the bike is the secret sauce to being light on the bars enough to grip them as you see fit. How is your seating position helpful or hurtful to your lock on the bike and grip on the bars? This is advice I did NOT get thus far. Thank you! As Chicago went from 80F this past weekend to 40F in 24 hours, I'll be practicing the above on my bike in the garage. I know when making left hand turns I am very comfortable experimenting my lock position which is when my crotch is pretty much against the tank and my hips turned in where I am trying to kiss the mirror and can see my front tire. Now again coming to the right, I feel like I am hanging off sideways not twisting my hips and unable to see kiss the imaginary mirror or see the front tire. I just got on my bike when I got home to test out my right side again and all I felt was my left inner thigh muscles screaming, my right foot unable to pivot due to 90% of my weight digging on the right foot peg and my hands on the control totally uncomfortable. This will be a good trial and error exercise till I fully feel comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowDuck Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Great thread. csmith12, awesome photos. I especially like your upper body / head position. Nice. Another reaction I had to those photos though is that the handle bars seem to be a bit high, so that your hands are more elevated than they need be. Do you agree with that? Is there any opportunity to lower the clip ons or would that lead to clearance issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmith12 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 @YellowDuck - Yes sir, totally agree that the bars are a bit high. They have clearance issues if mounted under the triple . I could cut the fairing to allow for clearance but it would create a sharp edge near my hands. In the event of a down or the likes, I don't want the extra risk that comes along with that, because my mind would wander to cutting my hand(s) from time to time. I try to solve problems not create extra ones if you know what I mean. lol @Apextc - I lump all this stuff in one category. "Contact Points" ie where do you as the rider come into contact with the bike. Many riders focus on the seat as a starting point. I really don't... I start with the knees locked up under the tank lip. This normally puts my bumm back in the seat just a bit off the tank. From there I can adjust all other ergos to support getting and keeping a good, comfortable lock on the bike. imho, The #1 mistake is to sit in the saddle either too close or too far back. Too close and your outside knee loses contact with the tank when hanging off to the inside while cornering (taxes the inner thigh for support). Too far back may create instability as the rider has to work extra hard to grip what little bit of the tank the knees come into contact with (and using the bars to hold on). And speaking of adding instability, the original question states that there is instability and tightness when turning right. Lemme ask this, when should you move your bumm to the right side as your prep for the upcoming right corner? Which of the following adds more instability? A: Moving your bumm while on the throttle B: Moving your bumm while on the brakes And one more thing... There are a lot of things to do when prepping for a corner. Would it help if the rider was able to complete some of those tasks earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apextc Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 @csmith12 : THANK YOU FOR THE AMAZING RESPONSE !! This will take some time to digest B: Moving your bumm while on the brakes - will be more unstable and my reasoning is that as I'm braking my body is shifting forward and moving sideways while squeezing the tank is counter productive? "Would it help if the rider was able to complete some of those tasks earlier?" - Is there an order here that is preferred? I can think of get all / MOST of the braking done first, downshift/blip/rev match, move half moon off the seat, lock, counter steer, kiss the mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I experimented with something last time I was out riding. in the turn I tried to put my inside foot so it was inline with the peg. What I mean by that is i put my foot so that my toes were close to the end of the peg and my heal was on the peg where it meets the rearsets. My foot wasn't 90 degrees from the bike but I tried to get i as far as possible so more of my boot was in contact with the peg. This feels better in the turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 "Would it help if the rider was able to complete some of those tasks earlier?" - Is there an order here that is preferred? I can think of get all / MOST of the braking done first, downshift/blip/rev match, move half moon off the seat, lock, counter steer, kiss the mirror. Apextc, you should rather ask yourself that. My leading question will be: is there anything in that list that you provided that could be moved around? Right now your list says: 1) Brake 2) Downshift 3) Body position 4) Turn point (counter steering) 5) "Kiss the mirror" (not sure that you mean by this) Is this list complete? - anything missing or superfluous? Bonus point for point out which things are mandatory for all turns, and which are only needed for some turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 The best way I can answer this is that I don't feel like I am kissing the mirror when making a right turn. I feel like im just sliding off sideways. A common position problem that causes that feeling of slipping off sideways is having the inside hip pushed forward (which usually also results in the inside shoulder being pushed forward), instead of "opening" the pelvis into the turn. This can be caused by crowding the tank (try sitting back a little farther in the seat) or by hanging the butt off TOO far on that side (experiment with that - try keeping your butt all the way in the seat, then halfway to your prior position, etc., until you find what works best) or just by tension on right hand turns - if you are nervous about leaning the bike (and/or your body) to the right and are tense in your right arm, it can make you crossed up, pushing your inside shoulder and hip forward, instead of opened up into the turn. If it is a tension or resistance to turning right, try a more conservative body position - sit in the seat, lock on tight with your outside knee (or both knees) and just practice leaning your head and upper body into the turn, with the right elbow down and RELAXED. When that starts to feel "too" easy, start moving the butt over a bit, then a bit more, etc. but do it gradually enough that you can keep your upper body and arms relaxed throughout. That process can also help you identify at what point you start to feel like you are slipping, which may help you find a place on the bike that needs StompGrip, or a better heel guard, or just a change in your hang-off positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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