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slobdog

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Cornering Expert

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  1. I understood fine And no I don't ever feel awkward when hanging off! I used to sometiimes, but not after undertaking level 3 of the CSS school. Maybe I'm wrong with my suspicion, but please humour me and answer my three questions ;o)
  2. This sounds good and it's amazing how a good body position can help bring things together However, this rings a slight alarm bell. With a good body position you should feel relaxed. How tense does your upper body feel when you hang off like this? How are you supporting your weight now that your butt is not planted on the seat? Do you think this could add any unwanted input into your steering?
  3. I'm listening with the sound off (at work ) but looking at the speedo needle, he's adding too much throttle while at full lean and I reckon the rear stepped out a little in him and he chopped off.....bike sits up and he gets lucky and just stays on the road.
  4. Ok - so we did it! Pics below. The stand works brilliantly. Once the axle bar is in place, there's a pin that goes in to prevent it pulling out. The bike is then totally stable and can easily be slid into position. Sliding the stand under the rear wheel is a little more tricky and I needed to get 2 helpful people to assist. One to hold the bike and front brake/bike, the other to slot the stand under the rear wheel, while I levered the rear wheel up with a bit of wood. Once that obstacle was cleared and the pin in place, we just slid the stand into position and secured it in place with 3 T-bar bolts, which screw into 3 plate metal captives, which we had riveted to the chassis. The small van size is a real pain, as the stand would be a 1 - man operation, if there were space to simply roll into (as on a trailer). I'll keep bugging my boss for a bigger van!
  5. Ok, just bought some steel....tomorrow I'm going to try and make front wheel grab and a crude version of the strapless stand. Wish me luck
  6. I agree, great post. That is pretty much what I thought I should be doing, but with a clear explaination as to why. That has helped me clear up a few pointa. Many thanks
  7. I love this question and will be very keen to find out what the more experienced think......The comparison is coasting into the corner, or timing everything to be be 'off' coincident to 'tippng in'. I'll have a bash, which will no doubt be misplaced I think biker A will for sure will have a comparatively relaxed time, but will perhaps not be realising his 'optimum' (assuming he wants to get around around a track as fast as possible). If biker B applied his brakes progressively, he shouldn't be making any abrupt movements and load will transfer to the front smoothly, keeping the front loaded, but not bottomed out. This weight will allow the bike to turn quicker and he spends less time at full lean angle. So, extending that to a logical conclusion, Biker B should be able to achieve a higher entry speed through his approach? Who has the higher safety margin - Biker A - because he isn't trying to time things so precisely and can chill out and ensure he is totally smooth..... Hmmm.... so.maybe I'm totally wrong
  8. Interesting. Thanks for the info. The handle bar straps I have borrowed do actually tighten with ratchets. We do have loads of ratchet straps of all different sizes though, so a triple clamp approach is possible.....Will perhaps need an experiment to see which feels most secure.
  9. Wow guys, cheers for the superb answers! I think we can make our own version of the strapless stand in time. Maybe not in time for saturday though. I managed to borrow some handle bar straps from a friend, no idea what make they are.....but he said they worked fine with his old bikes (R6 and Gixxer 6) and bike trailer. I'll head the warning and go easy on the tightening, I guess just enough to put a light load on the suspension is required? I should be able to modify the van to wedge the front wheel so it holds the bike vertical, plus a chock behind bolted to the floor. Then for the rear, I'll fashion a bracket to secure a D link into the pillion peg mount points. (Again going easy on the strap pressure). I'm thnking of a crude version of these.... http://www.satoracing.com/cbr600rr09racinghooks.htm Does that sound sensible? I suppose one good point about having a cramped van space, also full of my bike gear/stand/toolbox is that the bike can't actually topple all the way over! Thanks so much guys.
  10. Hi guys, With my recently converted CBR600rr track bike, I'm left with a new challenge. How to get it to the track, safey and securely.. I have a small van (Vauxhall Combo) which it should just about fit in. This bloke seemed to manage it! click here and scroll down until you see pics There are several points to strap down to, so I was thinking ratchet straps. The question is where and how? I've read on a few forums that you can buy handle bar straps (canyon dancers I think they're called), but then have also read that they can damage your grips! So - how does every oneelse do it? I need to figure something out before saturday - as I'm going to level 4 at silverstone
  11. Yes my friend, you have reached a level of riding that few attain. Some people ride for years and not get to this level. You have earned the coveted "Hole In Boot" Badge Cool
  12. I have come to the conclusion that weighting the inside peg is a bad thing. Mainly because it does this to your boots. I have bought stompgrips (and gone on a diet ) to help take some load off!
  13. Here is how I'm thinking about it in my mind: (BTW I ended up writing a lot, so if you want a cut to the chase questions, it is this - CUT TO CHASE - Q1. Does the action of quick turning load your bike suspension? Or is the loading a result of lean/camber angle, corner speed and acceleration, with the turning just a rotation force. Q2. What do you do in the wet? a, Turn at a slower/same rate. b, Lean less/ the same. c, Do neither different and just reduce entry speed? If you want to read the long rambling version then read on..... LONG VERSION..... The wheels of a bike are like any other loaded surface. There are four things that affect sliding resistance: 1. vertical Load (determined by bike / rider weight, and relative distribution over the wheels resultant from body position and any deceleration or acceleration) 2. Uplift forces which result from either (i) surface bumps (ii) surface water 3. A co-efficient at the surface /wheel interface. This may be made up of 2 components. (i) tyre suface adhesion/friction (variable dependent upon temperature) (ii) Debries / oil / other surface defects (which clearly varies) 4. 'Clean' Track surface friction All the above can be summed up by: Resistance = ((Load - Uplift) * (interface co-efficent * (the tangent of clean track surface friction angle)) So when we go around a corner we have a horizontal (sliding) force applied through the tyres which is a result of: ((Bike + rider weight) * (Speed) * (acceleration) * (tangent of resultant reaction angle,which is dependant upon lean angle, the tyre surface adhesion/friction and any corner camber) As long as sliding resistance is at least equal to sliding force we have no problem. So in the wet we have an uplift force to reduce load and a reduced interface co-efficient (due to colder tyres). The reduced interace co-efficent will both reduce resistance and also apply an increased horizontal force. But (at the moment.....awaiting correction! ) I am standing by the comment that this would principally be controlled by a reduced lean angle, or some other means of reducing the horizontal force, and not rate of turning..... This is because I am thinking that the action of turning has a rotation around the point where the tyre meets the track. So if the tyre contact point is a pivot point and the turning action is solely rotational, it can not, by this definition, add any further horizontal force. This is why I came to the conclusion that the rate of angle change is not important in isolation. It is the the sum total of imposed sliding forces that control this, and reduced lean angle (or reduced entry speed) is one way of restoring it. So the long question is really no different from the 'Cut to the Chase ones - 'how much, if at all, does turn rate affect the horizontal/sliding force' and why? Sorry for rambling - this is bugging me!
  14. Ok so I've been thinking about quick turning and front end grip. I'm a civil engineer by trade, so have been applying some of my trade knowlege to my though process - this is what I have come up with. Putting VERTICAL load on the front wheel is good for front end grip. Principally more vertical load *has* to result in more grip........but, because the bike is also leant over, there is also a horizontal component to this and the more you lean the more the resultant force transfers from vertical to horizontal. This would move you towards a sliding condition. So back to my query on whether itis possible to quick turn too fast....(assuming no rain/bad surface/tyre issues) I would say no, if you are decelerating with weight over the front i.e. hanging off properly. This is because the deceleration causes vertical force to increase and horizontal force to reduce. If you turn rapidly then this permits the sudden increase in horizontal force to be accomodated due to the vertical force still being high. You finish turning and then accelerate as you pick the bike up (load transfers to the rear and vertical load reduces on the front, but this is now ok, because the ever reducing lean angle also reduces the horizontal componant. Conclusion - I am currently turning to slowly and need to change this! I only get away with is because my lower speed (and smooth riding - HAH!) keeps me away from the limit of my tyre grip. If I start going faster my slow turning WILL eventually bite me in the backside. Without trail braking, you can't quick turn too fast - wet or dry. In the wet an uplift component is added, effectively subtracting from the vertical force. So to get around this you don't actually turn slower, you just don't lean as much. (All things being equal, the turning will actully be over quicker, because you aren't flicking the bike as far! Am I right here, or have I missed something? Perhaps you would be a lot more careful with the brakes in the wet, because front wheel braking whilst tipped over would dynamically load the front and at high lean angles would contribute more dynamic horizontal componant than vertical.......I only put this on as afterthought because I don't really trail brake much, if at all.
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