tweek, on Jul 27 2008, 05:46 PM, said:
I guess I'm still not tracking this because while the points appear to make sense reality doesnt quite follow.
[snip]
So now that I can carry more speed through the corners (because I can make more use of the bike's abilities) how do I get even better lap times? I think the answer is figuring out things like reference points and lines.
That's a pretty big subject wrapped in a rather small question, yet, in a nutshell, it boils down to a pretty simple answer.
More gas. Less brakes.
As for the finer points... buy the books/DVD's, study, study, study and practice, practice, practice.
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Going back to where I started and chunking it down a bit, lets break it in two. On one hand deal with the context of racing. On the other deal with the context of time trials.
In the case of time trials (one bike on the track at a time like WSBK super pole) the rider can use whatever line he choses. If each bike had a GPS tracking unit on it and you collected all of their data I wonder what you would see? Would you see one line through the whole track, would it be thick or thin? Or would you see something like brownian motion? What if you had a lot of different classes participating and you had all their data (125cc, 250cc, 600s, liter bikes, motards and a few hells angles for good measure). What would you see?
You'd see a different preferred line in each class.
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In the case of time trials I'm will to bet that in the hands of expert riders across all the classes you would actually end up with either concentric lines based on some factor (likely weight) or a fairly thin line followed by all the bikes. Thin line would probably be similar to the mechanical line (outside, inside, outside) you would draw on a map of the track. there would probably be a few variances to account for things line dips, tar snakes, gravelly spots, etc, but overall it would be like the mechanical line.
But when you line up a bunch of competitive blokes on their bikes things change. During time trials I bet you don't see too many bikes sliding sideways on the exit of a turn or being backed in to a turn.
True enough.
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How do the qualifing times compare to the race times?
Typically, qualifying is conducted on special tires that give super-grip for a few laps before they are cooked. So, typically, qualifying times will be faster than race times; but, assuming a different tire is used for the race, the heat of the competition can drive the race pace down to the qualifying time and even surpass it. So, in this case, perhaps being all alone on the track isn't as important as simply having a clear track ahead of you.
ETA: Not everyone gets on well with qualifying tires, like reportedly Toseland. And some riders, in the AMA for instance, don't bother using them at all either for economic reasons or merely to minimize the distraction of yet another set up to worry about. At the end of the day, they may only lose a few spots on the grid and have a more realistic idea of how their set up compares and more practice time on their race set up!
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If a race can absolutely be controlled from the front then why doesnt the guy on pole usually win from the very beginning? If all you need to do in order to win is get on the fast line and go fast then the guy in pole position should be able to win every time. I don't think that happens.
Well, the pole winner does typically end up at or near the front. But, there are many factors involved between qualifying and the race. First, the qualifying session(s) are typically 1-2 days before the race, giving each team/rider time to improve the machine setting or learn the track better. Also, the difference between the first several riders is typcially less than one second. In fact, it's not unusual for the first 3-4 rows to be within one second of each other, that is pole and 12th place separated by less than one second. The difference between pole and 5th place on the grid may be less than three tenths of a second... you could cover them with a blanket in the blink of an eye! So, there just really isn't that much advantage to overcome in the first place.
And then, once everyone is together, all sorts of things like holeshots and braking and drafting and passing and blocking and tires and the heat of the moment, ie. RACING come into play.
Finally, that single hot lap for qualifying represents a level of riding that usuallly cannot realistically be maintained for an entire race either by the rider or the machine for various reasons including tire compound, tire wear, fuel load and the rider's physical/mental conditioning. More than anything, the heat of competition drives everyone's laptimes down. At best, the grid is a loose indicator of potential. There's nothing like another bike next to you (or in front) to cause the throttle hand to twist a bit harder!
Having said all of that, if the gap between the pole sitter and the next rider is big enough, say a half a second or more, like Casey and Rossi last week, it is not unusual for the pole sitter to jump off the line and lead the race unchallenged from "flag to flag" as the saying goes. I have seen it many times in my years at the track. And, in fact, that is what most everyone expected Casey to do last week. Ah, but then there's that little thing called racing again, and a guy like Rossi can qualify on the 3rd or 4th row and still win the race. I've watched him do it more than once this year.
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We can throw in the fact that we're humans and fallable, but that pretty much does away with there being only one line. The physics might say "this is the line, there shall be no other", but then along comes man and screws it up. He enters the turn 3ft outside the leader but does his turn faster so that he ends up inside the leader on exit. However, physics says "you have sinned against me and I shall smite thee!" and his rear tire begins to slide a tad. But our sinner is a whiley rider and paid attention during level 4 and lets the bike begin to stand up with out giving back any throttle. Our sinner now is the race leader and he did it by not staying on the fast line and briefly stepping over the edge (just to be photogenic).
While the average street squid might be 3 ft off the line from lap to lap, a good rider has the ability to be inch perfect from lap to lap. The best riders can literally put their bikes within about 3 inches of their line lap after lap after lap. Most importantly, they have a plan, a line in mind. And they KNOW where that line is even when they can't see it because other bikes/riders are blocking the view.
As for your "sinner", if I follow your train of thought, being faster or off-line in one part of the corner to get past another rider forcing a slower exit, but
blocking the rider just passed is what's commonly known as a block-pass racing technique. And though the sinner may be in front, the lap will be slower and anyone behind will catch up. So it's risky business. All of these considerations are part of racing... and were outlined above. You really should re-read Kevin's post carefully and think about it. He covered all of this pretty well.
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So is there one and only one line? Or are there several?
Or Keith's book says "any line that allows your to apply good throttle control is a good line" - is this a round about way of saying - sorry dude - one line or what?
Again... you need to be really clear about the context. Keith is not necessarily talking about the fastest line. He is talking about a good line. Generally speaking, a good line has nothing to do with speed
per se. It has to do with control. So, again, there is a difference between a good line, the fastest line, and a winning line. The one you choose depends on you, your bike and what your goal is.
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