13 replies to this topic

[Eirik]

I'd like to be able to do that

[ktk_ace]

does sliding on wet drainhole covers count? XD

[BLSJDS]

Only if it was intentional   .

[Cobie Fair]

I'd love to see more guys able to run up front at the top level of racing, but wonder if Suzuki would have made this ad if they were on the top of the box at Moto GP?

[BLSJDS]

Given how large a role electronics play in MotoGP, my guess is no.

[warregl]

While I understand Simon's "point" when it comes to racing (but I believe that ship has sailed - even Josh Hayes is runing TC this year), I think that using the abilities of world class riders as an arguement to produce a streetbike without electronics that have proven their worth with normal riders (I refer to CSS's safety record on the S1000RR) is a hollow agruement at best.

I'm with Eirik and wish I could do that but the fact that I can't is the reason I want TC on my bike.

[Eirik]

The cheaper, simpler way is to avoid surplous horsepower I currently own a 26 hp 250, a 48 hp 500, a 52 hp 400 and a 64 hp 650 - all rated very optimistically. Short of black ice, I'm not likely to need TC any time soon

[mugget]

Ah, yes - I've seen this vid around. Nice Suzuki ad, eh?

I kind of get where it's coming from, I used to be against all rider aids like TC, ABS, etc. I had an image in my mind of a 'perfect' uncompromised bike, a real riders machine. I was the same with cars - I always saw TVR as a real 'drivers car', no power steering, no ABS, wants to kill you at every corner...

But the fact is that no one needs to 'take back control', because control hasn't been taken away. If electronics interfered with riding, fast guys wouldn't use them. If anyone says that they don't want electronic aids because they interfere with their riding, what they're really saying is that they're better than Stoner et al. Or at least better than the combination of Stoner and cutting edge electronics. That's pretty good!

The only real issue I can see comes back to the rider (as always), and their ability to adjust the electronics properly. It's easy to see how a bike being ridden on track with TC set to full (and 'rain mode', even) would be very frustrating. But complaining about electronics in that situation is like complaining that your bike is down on power because you only twist the throttle to halfway. But once you have TC set to low, I doubt many people would be limited by that. For example the Aprilia RSV4 APRC SE with Traction Control set to Level One would be a handful even for many experienced racers - it's like it has been designed for Max Biaggi alone.

Really it's just Suzuki's excuse for not having TC on their latest bikes. But they'll have all the electrickery eventually.

[ktk_ace]

mugget, on 03 May 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Ah, yes - I've seen this vid around. Nice Suzuki ad, eh?

I kind of get where it's coming from, I used to be against all rider aids like TC, ABS, etc. I had an image in my mind of a 'perfect' uncompromised bike, a real riders machine. I was the same with cars - I always saw TVR as a real 'drivers car', no power steering, no ABS, wants to kill you at every corner...

But the fact is that no one needs to 'take back control', because control hasn't been taken away. If electronics interfered with riding, fast guys wouldn't use them. If anyone says that they don't want electronic aids because they interfere with their riding, what they're really saying is that they're better than Stoner et al. Or at least better than the combination of Stoner and cutting edge electronics. That's pretty good!

The only real issue I can see comes back to the rider (as always), and their ability to adjust the electronics properly. It's easy to see how a bike being ridden on track with TC set to full (and 'rain mode', even) would be very frustrating. But complaining about electronics in that situation is like complaining that your bike is down on power because you only twist the throttle to halfway. But once you have TC set to low, I doubt many people would be limited by that. For example the Aprilia RSV4 APRC SE with Traction Control set to Level One would be a handful even for many experienced racers - it's like it has been designed for Max Biaggi alone.

Really it's just Suzuki's excuse for not having TC on their latest bikes. But they'll have all the electrickery eventually.

Im guessing if they dont implement TC before Honda does, they might be the last big 4 to be without a TC and might market it as such, no TC... pure hardcore

marketing? maybe?

[mugget]

ktk_ace, on 06 May 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

marketing? maybe?

I reckon. Remember the recent GSX-R1000 release (can't remember the exact year), where the new bike was actually heavier than the previous model? Suzuki claimed that this was deliberate to increase stability. Also Yamaha - when they originally released the 'big bang' R1 they said that the engine characteristics and throttle control was so good that you didn't even need traction control. But look at the R1 now...

[Hotfoot]

mugget, on 08 May 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

ktk_ace, on 06 May 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

marketing? maybe?

I reckon. Remember the recent GSX-R1000 release (can't remember the exact year), where the new bike was actually heavier than the previous model? Suzuki claimed that this was deliberate to increase stability. Also Yamaha - when they originally released the 'big bang' R1 they said that the engine characteristics and throttle control was so good that you didn't even need traction control. But look at the R1 now...

I had a boss (in design engineering) that used to say to me: "if you can't fix it, feature it!"

[Releeuw46]

Interesting...Looking at MotoGP, having TC does not guaratee not having highsiders. For commercially sold bikes used in trackdays it might save your a$$ here and there.
But If you could use some of the TC possibilities to give you extra information about the traction limits, that would be helpfull i guess.

For that reason I'm using a couple of LED's on my homemade dash to inform me about my wheel speed differences. Not to let the DTA ECU act upon that but just to give me background information to get a better feels for traction. And it still anables me to cut power on full lean at the start of a (unwanted) slide.

Unfortunately that is something you don't have on standard bikes.
TC will never be perfect, not even in F1, so good training on rider skills in this area should always be no1.

[Deep]

Eirik, on 30 April 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

The cheaper, simpler way is to avoid surplous horsepower I currently own a 26 hp 250, a 48 hp 500, a 52 hp 400 and a 64 hp 650 - all rated very optimistically. Short of black ice, I'm not likely to need TC any time soon

I bet you can race more spending less on tires

[mblaster]

Cool vid. Id like to be able to control a slide like that. Hopefully I can learn some good stuff at CSS, since the only electrickery I have on my bike is a push button starter.