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  1. 4 points
    This is a common enough question that lately Keith has put a new focus on the no-brakes drill with Level 4 students, having them re-do the drill to help increase their awareness of how much speed gets "scrubbed off" in a turn, and to make sure that concept is understood. There are, in fact, multiple Level 4 drills designed to increase the rider's awareness of this, and help the rider determine where, EXACTLY, one should have their entry speed set for a given corner. Dylan actually does cover this topic pretty thoroughly in the very first lecture in Level 1, Throttle Control, pointing out that the bike continues to slow down after the turn point, so trying to set your target corner speed AT the turn point can result in ending up too slow at the slowest part of the corner. However, I think for many riders who are new to track riding this speed-scrub aspect of throttle control may get lost; there is a lot to take in on that first day. And, of course, judging entry speed and speed scrub are the sort of thing that even the most advanced riders continue to work on, it does require focused observation and experimentation, and every turn is different so there is no "pat" answer that will work for every bike and every corner. Learning to observe the speed scrubbed after the turn point, and bringing up the entry speed gradually, is a good way to approach the problem - or make it a focus of your next Level 4 school day.
  2. 3 points
    Keith asked me to add a little more info about grip: The point on max grip is another many faceted process. Due to the slip angle tires never do have 100% mechanical grip, they actually are sliding. That is a prophylactic process as it cleans the spent rubber off the tire's surface but is ALWAYS happening, in every corner. It's sometimes overlooked in the traction arguments. In the end it's more to less, less to more SLIDE rather than more to less, less to more traction. Maybe that's just another way of looking at the same issue.
  3. 3 points
    I do not understand this statement, can you restate it or explain it more? If I understand your question about how to exit a corner, you are talking about coming out of the corner onto a straight(er) part of track, and you are asking how to change the arc to put the bike in a straighter line, is that right? If so, then the answer is yes, you would counter steer to bring up the bike. The momentary instability caused by the countersteering effort is overcome right away by the increased grip afforded by getting the bike more upright (primarily due to your suspension being able to work more effectively). In other words even if the front tire DID slide a little, it would recover, and in fact that is often how riders recover when a tire starts to slide - by standing the bike up. (Sometimes they recover by just staying loose on the bars and the tires regain grip either because they reach better pavement - like a slide on a greasy spot in the road - or because the bike has slowed some.) Keep in mind, though, that the rider must make a reasonably controlled steering input - a death grip on the bars that restricts bar movement, or a rider pushing on BOTH bars, or an extremely rough bar input could indeed cause a fall.
  4. 3 points
    Interesting topic. Three things that came to mind while reading through the posts: 1. Many moons ago, Roberts sr had trouble going fast enough around Suzuka. Instead of continue circulating, he went back to the hotel and had a think. A few hours later he returned to the track and said he had found 2 seconds. Hei proved it by going 2 seconds faster. 2. Darren Binder, Moto3, says he has no braking points, he brakes when those around him does. He's fast, but cause a lot of havoc and crash frequently. 3. Rossi, and others, often try a fully new and untested setup before races when they haven't found a competitive setup during practice. At least in the case of Rossi, it seems to pay off more often than not.
  5. 3 points
    Practice till you can't get it wrong, I'd just heard this in another arena (pistol shooting), but like the idea!
  6. 2 points
    You are correct, but only if such motorcycle is neutral steering-wise. As you know, many bikes have a natural tendency to either understeer or oversteer (if the rider releases the handlebar while the bike is leaned on a curve). Those tendencies depend mainly on geometry and profile of tires. The front contact patch of an understeering bike will "feel" less lateral force when coming out of a lean/corner as it had been forced to over-steer during the curve. In the steady conditions that you have described (while keeping zero angular input on the steering), the sliding force on each contact patch remains constant and it depends on the square value of the forward velocity of the bike and the inverse of the radius of the trajectory. As you properly have explained, any counter-steering input will instantaneously increase the value of that lateral or sliding force (especially for the front contact patch). The lean angle (and linked lateral forces) can remain constant along a curve, but real conditions of the road make it maximum only intermittently. Maximum grip or friction depends on the force that is normal or perpendicular to the surfaces in contact. The undulations of the road and the instantaneous accelerations that add to and subtract from the natural acceleration of gravity, induce a fluctuating amount of that normal force or available maximum friction or grip. Each tire has more available traction each time it rolls over a crest: that instantaneously increased normal force deforms the tire and partially compresses the springs, which push and accelerate the rider and the rest of the mass of the bike and fluids upwards. Exactly the opposite happens when the tire "falls" into a valley of the track's surface: less available traction for a fraction of a second. In other words, assuming a perfectly horizontal traverse surface of the curve (no sectional slant, slope or crown), which makes the value of the normal force that induces grip equal to the value of the weight supported by one tire, the undulating nature of that surface will make that tire and its suspension alternatively support more and less weight than normal (for a perfectly ideal flat surface). Hence, more that having a sharp value, the available grip of each tire constantly rises and falls / pulses / swings / oscillates around an average value. Similar effect (although at much higher frequencies) is produced by the vibrations coming from the rubber compound of the tire when supporting strong lateral forces (getting deformed, twisted, overheated, sheared) and when crabbing or sliding off the trajectory (while keeping grip). At microscopic level, things are changing at a very rapid rate and the surfaces are gripping each other and letting go in a very rapid sequence. Consider also that all the disturbances described above induce minimal steering inputs. Because of the trail of the front tire, while it is leaned, any close to vertical force has a perturbing effect (torque that is equivalent to a sideways force times trail distance) when the bike is in vertical position. A torque is induced into the steering, which can be over or under-steering, which significantly modifies the radius of the trajectory, which momentarily changes the magnitude of the lateral forces. Hotfoot's excellent post has perfectly explained the Physics of real life.
  7. 2 points
    Here are some places to look in Twist II for info on downhill turns: Chapter Two, Throttle Control, the section called Survival Training. Chapter Four, the section called "Other Exceptions" near the end of the chapter. Twist I also has some info: Chapter 1, The Road You Ride, the section Uphill, Downhill, and Crested Turns
  8. 2 points
    It sounds to me as though you might not be taking into account how suspension affects tire grip. Are you, for example, assuming a completely rigid connection between the wheel and motorcycle, with no suspension action and a non-deformable tire? Are you assuming that the grip of tire to pavement is constant, and is at the theoretical maximum friction of rubber to asphalt? There is more grip available when the bike is upright because the suspension is more effective at keeping the tire consistently in contact with the pavement. There is a theoretical maximum friction that you can calculate but in real-world riding, the pavement is not perfectly flat or perfectly consistent so the theoretical grip (calculated from formulas, with assumptions and simplifications made - usually a LOT of them) is NOT the same as actual real-life grip. Does it make sense to you, in your actual riding experience, that you have more grip when the bike is more upright than when you are at maximum lean angle? If so, does it follow that as you stand the bike up, you HAVE more grip available, so that even though you were at the max (for that lean angle) a millisecond before, you now have MORE grip available because the bike is coming up, and any tiny slide that would have begun from the countersteering effort would be halted by that additional grip? One must be very careful when attempted to use physics formulas to calculate grip. There are MANY factors that are ignored, assumed constant, or simplified in order to make formulas or concepts easier to understand, but trying to apply theories that don't take into accounts the LARGE number of variables present in real-world riding can lead to some confusions. You can find numerous examples on this board.
  9. 2 points
    I love this topic. I too am focusing on my turning ability, specifically Quick Turning. There’s an article where Keith says that learning to QT solves all of the SRs. I’m striving to become a disciple of that.
  10. 2 points
    Great questions. I was working hard at being a good copycat. I didn't brake at all, and I stuck to his fender and turned where he did. He was super-smooth and got the work done with speed and grace. I assume I was not as graceful, and I was probably off the throttle too soon, and not on again fast enough, because I was having some emotions at the time. As stated, I thought this was a mistake..but it was brilliant. Hard turning. I ski. To go down a steep face, you turn hard and often to keep your speed in check. Miss a few turns, and you have to slalom, fail to dig in, and you become a passenger. When I refer to 'hard turning' I am talking specifically about turning with the intent of using the conservation of angular momentum to convert velocity into a change in direction and reduction in speed. I wish I had talked more with my coach about the decades I spent racing offroad. One of the most common turns in the woods is jamming your bike into a berm or a ditch or a rootball, to shed speed and redirect yourself at a sharp angle to your incoming direction. Like a jump-turn in skiing. On the pavement of a racetrack, the best equivalent is getting all the physics right to lean in hard enough and fast enough that your suspension loads evenly and firmly, and you can feel the tires bite and rail you around a corner. And *thats* where I see the transition from 'oh I am in too deep/too fast' to 'wow, that was freaking awesome'. I would like to learn to do that a hell of a lot more, with a hell of a lot more intent.
  11. 2 points
    Thinking takes a bit of time. While riding (or other high speed potentially lethal activities), that's too slow. A few different pieces of this, but the first one is I actually applaud the guys that take the time to come to this forum, and work through some of the pieces of riding. There is a technology to riding. But for one to be able to look at the technology of riding, has to be willing to think it over, work through the pieces, do some study. That is for sure the first step. I'd have to say that this is more a thinking man's forum than some others. Like I said, got a few parts that I want to cover on this, but are you all with me so far?
  12. 2 points
    That's awesome, the pat on the back was great lol
  13. 2 points
    What would you say is the skill/thought process/etc. you get the biggest benefit from focusing on -- either for training/practice or in/around a race?
  14. 2 points
    Good summary Hotfoot. I'd always thought of WSB like NASCAR, and MotoGP like F-1
  15. 2 points
    I recognize that I’m almost exactly 3 years late to this party, but the past three weeks I’ve been using the forum search function and scrolling through pages of posts on a tire heat/traction research assignment from Cobie, and this thread is definitely the best I’ve come across yet. Cobie, you’ve done a great job of engaging and drawing participants out; there’s been a symbiotic contribution-response at almost every point along the way. The only thing I can add is an over-simplification of the topic, but based on the posts, I believe we all understand it: ’Train until you get it right, Practice until you can’t get it wrong” This encompasses the training of a new technique, and the refinement of that technique into a solid repeatable action (perhaps unthought).
  16. 2 points
    Here is a good summary of the difference between MotoGP and WSBK: https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/superbike-vs-motogp-differences One major difference is WSBK machines are based on production motorcycles and MotoGP bikes are purpose built race machines or prototypes. MotoAmerica is the organization that promotes the premier North American racing series, and part of its purpose is to develop riders from North America to compete on the world level in WSBK and AMA, and uses production motorcycles. MotoAmerica is sanctioned by AMA and FIM. What we used to call "AMA racing" is now MotoAmerica. CCS (Championship Cup Series) and WERA (Western Eastern Racing Association) are two separate nationwide racing series sanctioning bodies. They would both be considered feeder series for MotoAmerica, offering a wider array of race classes than MotoAmerica and offering Novice classes and race schools to help attract and develop racers. Their events are more affordable and easier to qualify for than MotoAmerica events, and they run a lot of local and regional events, and regional championships so that racers do not have to travel all the way across the country to compete in a series. There are quite a few racers that race MotoAmerica and CCS or WERA. There is also AHRMA, American Historic Racing Motorcycle Association, which runs events around the country for vintage motorcycles, and is reputed to be a very friendly and very competitive race organization. A new racer riding progression might start with mini-moto racing and minimoto clubs (especially for kids who are too young to race larger bikes) then progress to a local race club at a local track (which would typically begin with a new racer school), then progress to a regional competition with an organization like WERA or CCS. The national organizations generally have Novice and Expert levels, with requirements to advance to Expert (based on points or race wins) and do have minimum qualifying laptimes. Racers doing well in these national clubs might - if they have the resources - move up to MotoAmerica, and MotoAmerica stars might move on to the world stage. Does that help?
  17. 2 points
    It would be a rare 180 degree turn where you could roll on the gas as soon as you have your lean angle set (at the beginning of the turn) and be able to roll on continuously for the whole rest of the turn. If the turn was large, and U shaped (as an example) you would most often have to roll off (or at least go flat) on the gas in the middle of the turn, more or less treating it as TWO turns, the first part with one turn point and apex and the second part with its own turn point and apex. Depending on the shape of the turn, you may or may not need to make another steering input to change your lean angle at the second turn point (ie if the turn tightens up in the second part, you will likely have to make a steering input to change the lean angle for the second part of the turn). Alternatively, you could consider that your "real" turn point is somewhere in the middle of the 180 degree turn, a turn point that will line you up for the apex and exit you want. Everything before that would really just be pre-positioning to get to that turn point and you might very well be slowing down (off the gas and trail braking) ALL the way to the turn point which could be located near the middle of the 180 degree turn, or even later if it tightens up a lot at the end. You could try working backwards from the exit (if exit speed is the priority) to find the exit line you want, then find the apex and turn point (in the second half of the turn) that will line you up for that without any additional change in lean angle . That will be your "second turn point" (or real turn point if you are thinking of it as one turn) then work backwards from THERE to find an entry line from the first part of the turn that will get you top that second turn point. Does that make sense? If the turn is at the end of a fast straight and whatever comes after the 180 degree turn is slower, you may want to prioritize carrying the straightaway speed as long as possible and in that case you might choose a line that allows maximum trail braking as long and late as possible before you reach the second turn point, potentially sacrificing some speed in the latter part of the turn with a less optimum exit but a wide fast entry.
  18. 1 point
    Time to update this thread. We are looking for qualified coach candidates. The primary reason is we continue to add the number of coaches needed per School day. Used to be 6 coaches needed. Now at some Schools it's grown to 15. If you are interested, or think you might qualify, please read the following carefully, and return the application (download here).Regards,Cobie FairChief Riding CoachCalifornia Superbike SchoolOverall description:1. Racing experience is preferred. We have to see the riding to answer if the riding skill level will be adequate. Most of our students arestreet riders, but we do need someone that can set an excellent example for a broad range of skills.2. Friendly, personable, upbeat, high ethical standards, fit in with the rest of our team is a must.3. Excellent communication and observation skills. Willing to be trained and do homework. The coach training is vigorous, not for thewimpy. Every aspect of what you do is examined, honed, tested, and improved on a regular basis.4. The positions are part time or full time (meaning doing all Schools) for independent contractors but we need a minimum of 15 school days per year.5. There is a tryout. That is usually 1 day at a racetrack.6. After the tryout, there is a short probation period/apprenticeship, but we pay all travel and other expenses, use our bike, gear, etc. Probation period depends on you and how much work you are putting into your training.7. After probation, coaches are paid according to their instructor skill level, how many of our training programs they have completed. Starts at$180 per day, goes up from there.Getting all these together in the same package is the hard part. Truthfully we are a very dedicated, serious-about-being-the-best bunch, and it shows.About 1 in 40 that apply make it past the probation stage. We are a school, we train riders and racers and we do that totally. We don't give jobs to our friends because we like them.Download the application and email it to me.
  19. 1 point
    Hope to be taking my first CSS school in May at VIR. I have been on two wheels since age 4. The only school I have taken was the Cornerspeed Race School so I could get my lic to compete in CCS races and that wasn't until 2003 at age 37. I have nine years road racing and seven years coaching experience at the Mid-Atlantic tracks, VIR being my all time favorite. I am looking very forward to my upcoming school and have high hope of learning some new things and of course to correct those nasty habits we seem to collect over the years. Except for my race school I am self taught with the assistance of wearing out a few VHS players as I hit rewind and play, a few thousand times learning BP and techniques from the original masters of the sport. Hoping to meet and get to know even more like minded people in this community, (Family) than I already know. Some of you will flame me for this, but I was the guy doing the rain dance in the pits praying for a "Wet" event. lol. I absolutely loved racing in the rain. Former MX guy so I have the elbows thing going on a little bit. See you in a few months
  20. 1 point
    Hi all from Malta, Europe! Relative noob here, riding for almost 3 years mostly some fun in the weekends and when I am able to. Started off with and adventure bike an F650GS, transitioned fairly quickly to '00 600cc Honda Hornet, and now an ,04 gsxr 600. Eager to learn how to ride the sportsbike better, understanding how it all works together and hopefully get into some track days, eventually. Good day all.
  21. 1 point
    The main reason is I like the competition. If you come to the racetrack and if you aren't having fun, there must be something wrong with you! As for challenges, depends on the track. This year it was learning tracks. Like Sonoma, I had one 25 minute session on track before the race to learn the track. As for goals: I don't set goals, I do best when I ride relaxed, that's when I do best. If I set goals, I get tense.
  22. 1 point
    At a school at Streets of Willow many years ago I was a student on my 250 (the Honda MD250H) and later in the day I had a mechanical issue and ended up renting a school bike. At the end of the day my best lap time was only 1/10th second difference between the two bikes. Over the years I have ridden that track on a 250, a 450, a 600 and a 1000 and my times on all of them were very close. Since that track is so tight and doesn't have long high speed sections, it is definitely possible to runs laps as fast or quicker than the bigger bikes, and we have had kids at CodeRace on 125's 2 stroke bikes run rings around the bigger bikes and set lap records. Having said all that, in a race environment I'm not the biggest fan of running a lightweight bike in a class of mostly heavyweight bikes, because the big bikes pass you on the straights then you have to pass them back in the corners. So at Streets, you'd probably get left behind at the start (uphill, HP disadvantage) then have to pass bikes through turns 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, then probably get passed back at the exit of 8 and then have to try to pass back either at 9-10 or through the last turn... it could be really fun passing the big bikes in the corners, but it also might be a lot of back and forth, where the big bikes can take their passes on the exits but you will have to take yours on entries or mid-corner, and those passes can be tougher to plan and execute. So if it was a regular school I'd say bring the 250/300 and have fun with the higher corner speeds and nimble handling, but at CodeRACE you may or may not want to set yourself up for that much back and forth passing; a 1000cc bike can gain a lot of ground on a lightweight bike on the main straight, especially if they are willing to carry good speed though turn 1, so you'd have to work pretty hard to get far enough ahead to not have to deal with that.
  23. 1 point
    Hotfoot's advice about working the section backwards is so logical once brought to attention, and hence genius 👍👌
  24. 1 point
    Sorry all, I was out of town on vacation, and just let this drop! I'll get with Rocco in the next day, get answers! CF
  25. 1 point
    Greetings people of earth! In early 1997 at Phoenix International Raceway, I had my first on-racetrack motorcycle experience ever: CSS level 1. That was back in the day of Kawasaki ZX6 school bikes, but some things never change; there was an instructor at that school with the initials CF (He’s stuck around and seems to have gotten the hang of it). That school changed my motorcycling life forever, for the better, and I’ve been seeking more growth as a rider and as a student of life most of the way since. I admit to lurking here for a while - the topics, interaction and camaraderie are awesome - but it’s long past time to check in, get involved, and see what I can contribute. Looking forward to crossing virtual online paths with many of you, or better yet, meeting you in person at a CSS school.
  26. 1 point
    Like most any physically demanding sport, physical fitness (nutrition, hydration, strength, flexibility, etc.) is a factor in your ability to perform, and so are training, understanding, and practice. But, in my opinion, personalized coaching, and willingness to BE coached, are extremely important. I'll give you my perspective: I started riding quite late, in my mid thirties. I was very slow and very nervous and I don't think anyone expected me to have the potential to ride fast, let alone race (least of all me!), but I got really interested in the sport, got lots of coaching, and devoted a lot of time to really understanding the material, and my understanding of the material ABSOLUTELY changed and evolved as I rode faster. Going back and reading Twist II, I found lots of information struck me differently as my pace increased and I found techniques that were a bit vague to me at first became much more important, much more useful to me, because I NEEDED them more. For example, I could get away with slow body transitions at slower speeds but as my laptimes came down, speed of moving across the bike in a chicane became a limiting factor, I couldn't get through a particular section any quicker without moving over faster. Suddenly hip flick, which didn't seem very useful to me before, became a critical skill. That is just one example, but I have had, over the years, a BUNCH of breakthroughs like that, and have found that as I progress in my riding, becoming proficient in certain techniques and riding faster overall, new barriers crop up and as I address each one I get quicker again - and then encounter something else. How do I overcome the barriers? Through coming to school and getting coaching, mostly. Sometimes study of the material helps, sometimes analyzing data (laptimes, braking zones, lines, etc. from my lap timer or data logger) help, but coaching is what always makes the biggest difference - very often what I THOUGHT was my barrier turned out to be something different entirely, and it required the eye of a coach to discover that. Of course, my mindset while being coached is a huge factor in my ability to improve. If, for example, I came to school fiercely determined that I already knew "what my problem was", then I did not get nearly as much benefit from coaching because I was resistant to allowing the coach to help me. After I figured that out, I got even more improvements on my school days. I said physical fitness is important, but I am a lot older than many of the riders I race against, and not as fit as most of them, either, but my CSS training allows me to ride with fewer SR's and a lot less wasted effort so I can go faster and be calmer overall. I thought I had reached my riding peak years ago but I am actively racing this year and I am riding faster than ever before. I still get coaching as often as I can, generally I come to school as a student at least 4 days a year, if not more, and that makes a huge difference for me. It is not because I am in better shape, because I am not. It is because I understand and apply the riding tech better than I could before. I used to think, at the end of any school day as a student, that I was riding as fast as I ever would, because I figured I would just get older and slower.... but I'm not getting slower, I'm getting faster. Every time I come to school I get some new piece of information or tackle a new skill that adds something to my riding, and I get quicker. And what a thrill that is! And it is even better when some twenty year old comes over to your pit to ask you how you do it.
  27. 1 point
    I haven't tried the Missile suit, but the TechAir airbag vest has more coverage than any of the Dainese Misano (mostly collarbone), Misano 2D (extends over upper chest), and Mugello (includes side airbag). Supposedly, the same size works, but I think you'll probably want to go up one size in the suit as the vest is fairly bulky. All of the electronics are packaged in a hard shell back protector for the vest that is maybe almost double the thickness of my regular L2 back protector. The biggest issue with the TechAir is that it's a bit cumbersome if you like to walk around off-track with the top half of your leathers hanging loose because the rigid back protector keeps the shape of the upper half. In SoCal, Beach Moto is a TechAir distributor and might be your best bet of having the woman's version in stock. Alternatively, you can always order from Cycle Gear and just return in store for free. I also have the Hit-Air and it is a good option. I still think either of the TechAir or D-Air is a better option though since they are independent of the bike. The Hit-Air takes about 60 pounds of force to set off, so you just get tugged backwards if you get off the bike without unclipping. It is an extra hassle though to have to put it on, clip, and unclip each time. If you're hopping between bikes, setting up the tether each time is also an additional step.
  28. 1 point
    Great post, Llnewqban. "Anticipation of some imagined bad result" is the EXACT THING that I don't want to deal with when riding on the track, and THAT is the type of thinking I don't want to be doing during ANY kind of riding. That is where the education, understanding, training and practice come together for me. If, for example, my bike suddenly starts making a weird noise or vibration, I start thinking of possibilities of what could be wrong and how that could create a bad result. (Is the engine going to quit? Will the rear wheel lock up? Is something dragging? Can I still lean it over as far? Do I have a tire failing? Is the transmission losing a gear?) and THAT will slow me down and create anxiety. That sort of anxiety ruins my riding and my fun and as far as I'm concerned has no useful purpose; there are an infinite set of possibilities you can IMAGINE going wrong, after all. I am better off to get off the track, figure it out/ fix it, then get back to riding. Trying to practice a technique that I do not understand or believe in can create a similar feeling, unless I see an immediate benefit, when I try it, that proves it to me. If I don't see an immediate benefit, and I don't understand the purpose, I just ride around and worry about it and about my lack of understanding, and how I must be doing it wrong, and whether it will cause me to ride worse, and whether other people understand it, and maybe there is some OTHER reason is isn't working for me like maybe it is not suitable for my type of riding or its the wrong type of bike or tires or suspension setup, maybe I am just being dense, blah blah blah, see the problem? How much attention can you devote to observation of traction, lean angle, speed, etc. (or even the results of trying the drill!) when you are so inwardly focused? On the other hand, if I know where I am and what I am doing, and something changes (like a false neutral) I can observe that and make a fast, trained, confident decision; it's a very quick thought process without a lot of questions or thinking through a lot of possible scenarios and imagined bad results. It's still thinking (per RChase's post), but much quicker than if you had no information, understanding and/or experience to work with. At the school we sometimes refer to it as "thinking with" the information - you understand it well enough, you can apply it quickly and with certainty, instead of worrying or dithering.
  29. 1 point
    Willing to comment, but....... sorry, Cobie; it is not clear to me what exactly you want to discuss here. My perception from your previous posts: 1) The physical and mental principles behind riding a motorcycle properly, as well as the technologies in the machine, are important to be studied and understood by the rider. You called it "the first step" in your OP. 2) Some of those principles are more important that other because they are fundamental for the understanding and application of the rest. You have called what "one really want to understand well, and know like the back of one's hand". 3) Few riders, couches, students, schools or free-advisers know or want to expend time and effort to learn and understand the "technology to riding". The same persons believe that they know enough to teach others, who then believe that any advice is solid and good. On this, you have stated that "There has to be an evaluation of the technology, how good is it, how effective is it". 4) Experienced/fast riders that attend your school show a high degree of resistance to learn or reasoning why things, bad and good, happen when piloting a superbike at high speeds. They seem to be more doers than thinkers, and are not willing to switch that approach to riding/racing simply because they are firmly convinced that they have been doing it well for 30 years. Hence your comment: "Thinking/reasoning, working stuff out--this vital. I'm looking at some of the potential building blocks, before we get to the doing part." I fully agree with rchase; any invitation to changing that approach could hurt the sense of self importance of a rider who knows that he/she is incapable of understanding that information or who believes that his/her riding is already proficient without all that reasoning. A person who wants to learn will always do all the research that he feels he needs to understand the principles and technology of riding: that is what Keith Code did when nobody bothered to think much about the science behind racing. "Nah,.... there's gotta be something more here"
  30. 1 point
    Ok. Here goes. Not to be obtuse but I think you can learn something from anyone even if it's "this guy is an idiot" or "what a catastrophically bad idea". I apply a similar "acid test" to any knowledge that I try to gain regardless of the source. If I'm brutally honest not everything I have learned at the school works for me out on track. It was worth hearing about and is good information but for my specific needs it did not work. (for those reading who aren't familiar with the school this is a TINY subset of what they teach and likely the malfunction is on my end rather than that of the school's) The best information is stuff you can get backed up with an explanation. If you can explain the "why" in a logical way even if it's fundamentally wrong it's a lot easier to understand the thought process used to develop the idea and perhaps adapt the concept to a way that might actually work. Science and technology is all built on millions and millions of wrong ways to do things. And even some of those "right ways" eventually became wrong ways when someone figured out a better way to get something accomplished. My .02
  31. 1 point
    I see the makings of a good discussion...
  32. 1 point
    You got my attention Cobie. This tends to be my #1 problem. I have a very analytical mind and tend to think about every single element of riding. What's interesting is the idea of conscious and subconscious mind use. The subconscious works faster than the conscious mind. Unfortunately by the time you realize that the subconscious has acted sometimes you realize it took the wrong action. That's where training and some conscious thinking comes into play. There's a balance. A balance I have yet to find.
  33. 1 point
    Up until last season I used another method; go as hard as I could, expect corners to be more open then they appear and try to throw sparks around each corner (on old standard bikes from the 70s and early 80s, could not do it on race reps). Then, on my second go, I would be more tentative; was this where the corner closed and I almost ran off the road? Was this corner with the huge dip in the road? Etc. I remember back in 1996, riding my Yamaha XS500 on an unfamiliar mountain road. Beside the road a sign said tunnel and another said sharp bend. OK, a tunnel with a 90 degree corner, I thought, and stormed into the little tunnel. Only it was a 180 degree tight hairpin! Had to brake hard and keep a little bit of brake on all the way to the exit, sparks flying from stands and mufflers and pegs. A few corners later the same signs popped up, but there was no way in hell there could be two such crazy tunnels. I was wrong. Repeat drama from first episode. Yes, I'm a slow and reluctant learner
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