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aardvark1614

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  1. I rode a KLR650 (also a tall heavy bike) with luggage and a passenger from Tennessee to Oregon on unpaved roads (trans america trail - transamtrail.com) with knobby-ish tires. So I can relate a lot to some of the sensations you describe. I have never been so happy to have such a solid understanding of countersteering. To add to the effects of the tall heavy bike and rearward weight bias, I also had to contend sometimes with deep sand, rocks, ditches, mud, ruts, marble-like gravel, off-camber trails, and steep switchbacks. And due to the weight easily overwhelming the suspension on rough trails, there was a lot of very slow speed riding where a lot of manual steering and balancing is involved. I think you are right that at very low speeds, you have to countersteer to make it lean then you have to manually turn the handlebar in the direction of the turn rather than wait for it to naturally go there. I also think you are right that in some circumstances the bike has a tendency to continually lean lower and lower even with no pressure on the bars, and you may have to apply some forward pressure on the outside bar to hold the lean. My suggestion is, and what worked for me: For slow speed manuevering, regardless of all the wonky sensations and whatever you are doing with the throttle, turn the handlebars however you need to turn them to make the bike balance and go where you need it to go. Do what you gotta do and don't try to analyze it terms of some standard rule. At more normal speeds where you do not have to manually balance, stay loose on the bars (the standard recommendation) to take advantage of the bikes inherent self-correcting steering. And if on loose surface, tune out all the wish washy stuff and just focus on keeping the bike traveling in the right direction by countersteering when necessary. You might also check advrider.com, a different forum that is all about the adventure riding, lots of guys on there doing crazy things on heavy bikes with luggage. Thanks for your reply. It is good to hear from somebody that's 'been there'. Your comments are very helpful. I think some problems occur because my default bike is a 08 Fireblade that is light and agile with the weight centralised and low so when I get on the heavy and high BMW I fail to adjust quickly - the BMW is a great handling bike though.
  2. In a way you are touching on the issue that at very low speed counter steering tips a bike in and over. In a very tight up hill hairpin you cannot put your foot down as the ground drops away ( ie on a right steep up hill bend on a tall bike the ground is so far below the foot that it is difficult/impossible to hold the weight of the bike so you have to gun it. On level ground at low speed after counter steer YOU need to point the bars in the desired direction of travel - like on the video?
  3. Have you considered horseriding. I'm reliably told they have no bars and don't use fossil fuel. No stick to bikes !
  4. Thanks Bullit The advice to practice in a safe area is well made. I will hold off on publishing TOTG2 in The Riff Mountains Also thanks for your patience ! Regards and have fun Roundincircles
  5. Bullit More countersteer and more throttle ? Plus look where you want to go ? Avoid target fixation Am I close, if so can I publish Twist of the Grip in the Riff Mountains ? Seriously the look at the exit combined with throttle is a must in tight bends on heavy bikes, forgot about that. Regards Roundincircles
  6. Ok we're making good progress mate. Ok, to your observation yeah that would do it, so that would make the steering ineffective right? How about your first point you raised, your own observation of what you described in post 1 of this thread? "and it would run wide so I PUSHED the bars in a conventional way to get the bike on line ie opposite to countersteer". Now we're understanding how a bike steers, does that action now seem completely contray to what you should have done? and in fact, could it be you actually created this problem by doing so? If you felt the bike running wide, what should you have done? More or less countersteering input? Can you turn a bike any other way? Bullet
  7. Hi Bullit You are helping - thanks - and making me work ! A Death grip on the bars ie I am moving the bars , as a SR , because the bike is tipping in too far at low speed ? Read Chapter 14 totw2 which I agree with and accept Regards Rounincircles
  8. Hi Bullet I may be thinking too much about this, but some points about the 1200 GS 1. It does not have forks as it has Telelever front suspension with sliders controlling the wheel ( no springs or hydraulics in the slider ) thus the wheelbase remains constant unlike a conventional bike which reduces wheelbase as the forks compress. 2. It has electronic suspension adjustment so I had it set on pillion with luggage but I think the rear shock is soft anyway My guess is - IF I have countersteered at the correct point, and by enough, plus opened the throttle at the correct rate then the rear wheel will steer the bike around the corner. But, again, my guess is that the combination of low speed and tightish corner reduces the gyroscopic impact of the wheels, fires up a SR, DELAYING my trottle imput. Am I close? Does a bike remain countersteered in the turn? -------------------- Regards and Toodaloo Roundincircles
  9. Hi mate, I be that's not been a nice feeling, the bike running wide? I have a question for you first, before I get to yours. Why would you countersteer the bike, then NON countersteer the bike when you feel it's starting to run wide? Do you believe that you only countersteer initally, or does Countersteering carry for steering a bike ALL of the time? To answer your questions, when you countersteer the bike, this makes the bike tip into the turn, once the bikes leaned over, the bike steering naturally tips into the turn itself. Proper throttle control application would actually mean the bike would contine to go around the corner without ANY input from you on the bars. If you would like to see both of these aspects in real life, if you get the new TW2 DVD it's beautifully filmed to show all of these things in great clarity. Now, understanding this point, and thinking about what you've been doing here, what do you think is causing this feeling? Sure the bike's heavy, it's going to feel like it tips in more quickly, it may also feel weird odd if you have lots of weight over the rear and haven't compensated for this with suspension tweaks, as it'll make the forks longer and the steering feel slower, (a bit like riding a harley or something in comparison). Let me know your thoguhts mate, Bullet
  10. Hi mate, I be that's not been a nice feeling, the bike running wide? I have a question for you first, before I get to yours. Why would you countersteer the bike, then NON countersteer the bike when you feel it's starting to run wide? Do you believe that you only countersteer initally, or does Countersteering carry for steering a bike ALL of the time? To answer your questions, when you countersteer the bike, this makes the bike tip into the turn, once the bikes leaned over, the bike steering naturally tips into the turn itself. Proper throttle control application would actually mean the bike would contine to go around the corner without ANY input from you on the bars. If you would like to see both of these aspects in real life, if you get the new TW2 DVD it's beautifully filmed to show all of these things in great clarity. Now, understanding this point, and thinking about what you've been doing here, what do you think is causing this feeling? Sure the bike's heavy, it's going to feel like it tips in more quickly, it may also feel weird odd if you have lots of weight over the rear and haven't compensated for this with suspension tweaks, as it'll make the forks longer and the steering feel slower, (a bit like riding a harley or something in comparison). Let me know your thoguhts mate, Bullet Hi Bullet I may be thinking too much about this, but some points about the 1200 GS 1. It does not have forks as it has Telelever front suspension with sliders controlling the wheel ( no springs or hydraulics in the slider ) thus the wheelbase remains constant unlike a conventional bike which reduces wheelbase as the forks compress. 2. It has electronic suspension adjustment so I had it set on pillion with luggage but I think the rear shock is soft anyway My guess is if I have countersteered at the correct point, and by enough, plus opened the throttle at the correct rate then the rear wheel will steer the bike around the corner. But, again, my guess is that the combination of low speed and tightish corner reduces the gyroscopic impact of the wheels, fires up a SR, DELAYING my trottle imput. Am I close? Does a bike remain countersteered in the turn?
  11. Hi mate, I be that's not been a nice feeling, the bike running wide? I have a question for you first, before I get to yours. Why would you countersteer the bike, then NON countersteer the bike when you feel it's starting to run wide? Do you believe that you only countersteer initally, or does Countersteering carry for steering a bike ALL of the time? To answer your questions, when you countersteer the bike, this makes the bike tip into the turn, once the bikes leaned over, the bike steering naturally tips into the turn itself. Proper throttle control application would actually mean the bike would contine to go around the corner without ANY input from you on the bars. If you would like to see both of these aspects in real life, if you get the new TW2 DVD it's beautifully filmed to show all of these things in great clarity. Now, understanding this point, and thinking about what you've been doing here, what do you think is causing this feeling? Sure the bike's heavy, it's going to feel like it tips in more quickly, it may also feel weird odd if you have lots of weight over the rear and haven't compensated for this with suspension tweaks, as it'll make the forks longer and the steering feel slower, (a bit like riding a harley or something in comparison). Let me know your thoguhts mate, Bullet Hi Bullet I may be thinking too much about this, but some points about the 1200 GS 1. It does not have forks as it has Telelever front suspension with sliders controlling the wheel ( no springs or hydraulics in the slider ) thus the wheelbase remains constant unlike a conventional bike which reduces wheelbase as the forks compress. 2. It has electronic suspension adjustment so I had it set on pillion with luggage but I think the rear shock is soft anyway My guess is if I have countersteered at the correct point, and by enough, plus opened the throttle at the corect rate then the rear wheel will steer the bike around the corner. But, again, my guess is that the combination of low speed and tightish corner reduces the gyroscopic impact of the wheels, fires up a SR, DELAYING my trottle imput. Am I close? Does a bike remain countersteered in the turn?
  12. Hi Guys I have completed Level 1,2 and 3 on a 08 Fireblade. Very comfortable with the teaching phylosophy and trying to implement with increasing success but have run into a problem as follows. On a recent trip thru' the Riff and Atlas Mountains in Morroco I found my bike understeering in the tight corners, ie it wanted to steer wide towards the outside of the bend. I was on a BMW 1200 GS ( 6 years familiarity ) with my wife and heavy luggage including a heavy top box! I use road tyre - currently Dunlop Roadsmarts. The bike handles well and tips in on countersteer progressively but on tight corners I would open the throttle, after countersteer, and it would run wide so I PUSHED the bars in a conventional way to get the bike on line ie opposite to countersteer. Maybe it is a SR kicking in but increasing countersteer on slow corners, remember the bike is loaded and relatively tall, seemed to make the bike ' fall ' in as speed was low. I wanted to get on the throttle early to stop the bike falling in. Two questions 1. When a bike has changed direction by countersteering and the throttle is progressively opened does the front tyre then follow the radius or stay countersteered? 2. How can I change my approach on the 1200GS? Regards roundincircles
  13. Hi Guys ans Girls I completed Lvl 2 & 3 in JEREZ last year (2008) and afterwards felt I had made poor progress compared with level 1. When I picked my bike up from CSS HQ UK one of the css guys asked how it went and I mentioned my semi-dissapointment - well he said that often pupils make fast progress after level one but take time to benefit from 2 & 3. Was a bit sceptical I guess because my expectations were so high after Level 1 succes ! Anyway I have seen the light and on a recent 2500 mile trip thru' the Alps and Dolomites I made the breakthrough - as a less than natural rider it was a smile inducing great feeling to feel in partnership with the bike. By focusing on reference points and getting the habit of looking at the second and third RP just before reaching the closest RP the corners became wide, I relaxed, turned in later and faster and became so much smoother. Just great fun. Just wanted you to know that 2 & 3 were the best biking investment I have made - I just needed to implement to get a return. Regards roundincircles 08 Blade, KTM 690 Duke, 1200GS, Bennelli Tre-K
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