EricG

Watching the road closely you can plainly see that the road is we, but just a bit slick really. Which probably means that all the fluids deposited during dry days is being pulled up and mixed with water. Happens a lot on Cali highways when it first starts raining. I son't see much wrong with what the drivers were doing per-se, other than underestimating the effects of drizzle on an previously dry track.

I, for one, ride straight up and lean in, a bit more each time. I haven't ground my pegs, but I did take over 1" off the bottom of my hiking boots... Got riding boots soon after, and hit the toe sliders all the time. The gymkhana video is awesome! I wish O could be that good someday.

Well, when that's the only place you can practice under controlled conditions (road familiarity, quirks, traffic density, etc) then why not?

Sotys, 2 words: hook turn. At the end of TotW2, there is a discussion of the hook turn specifically for this situation. Per Keith, roll off a bit while simultaneously leaning forward and into the turn, the extra lean will offset the tendency of the bike to stand up, rolling off will then tighten the turn by lowering the lean and moving the mass distribution forward. Gotta admit this is still very alien to me, though I'm trying to figure it out as it's a potent weapon in the arsenal. Hope it gets covered in my level 1 course I. August!

As others have said, you will start the turn via counter steer, but one you've committed, the front tire will face into the turn. You can continue to counter steer, but that will tighten the turn radius. TofW2 shows this in lime the first 20 mins where count steering is discussed. Now, having ridden a cruiser and now a sport (touring) bike, I can attest to the fact that they steer very differently. Counter steer on a chopper, on the other hand, has a much lower duration than a sport bike. My per theory is the narrow front tire and low center of gravity - together with the limited lean angle - require you to steer into the turn much earlier, and at slower speeds counter steering has limited application. At least compared to the sportier bikes we tend to ride.

Exactly why I was asking... I've been very leery of lowsiding and trying to find a way to avoid it. Standing the bike up some over the expansion joint and doing quick flicks to change direction on the asphalt sounds like a good solution, and seems to work based on the limited testing I did - possibly due to my limited experience quick flicking. It does slow the turn down however as there isn't a lot of room for error. The overpass is about 1.5-ish car widths wide on either side of joints. Bt it does work and feels much more secure.

I know I'm a newbie to all this, but I've noticed something on my K1300s that is similar to what you're talking about... My bike is known to have both a 1/4 turn of slack in the throttle, and a tendency for drivetrain lash when the throttle is cracked hard. I've been trying to get throttle control going while in the lean, right after turn in, but couldn't get the roll on timing right. And when I got aggressive on it, the drivetrain lash would jerk the bike and scare the ###### out of me. So, here's what I'm trying... First, I'm working on getting the slack out of the throttle when first putting my hand on it, as the default 'neutral' position when rolling off. I'm also trying to learn the roll on speed that my bike likes. I've had a couple of instances where this came together and it was an epiphany. Perhaps try this before you try and tune? As for braking, should I, or shouldn't I? About 1/3 of a century ago, I formed a habit of using the throttle and shifting instead of the brakes when racing cars on Mulholland drive in the Hollywood hills. I'd get off the throttle, rev match as best I could and downshift; by then engine speed was already bleeding off enough that the downshift would set me up to drive out of the turn. Since then I really don't use brakes while driving, not even in traffic for the most part. My K is very aggressive when rolling off, and I've found I barely need to use my brakes at all unless I REALLy need to stop. After seeing TotW2, I've been trying to train myself to brake, downshift and then turn in. But based on some of the posts on this thread, that sounds like a bad idea. Personally, I'd much prefer not braking, but I'm not sure now what proper technique should be! Can you guys please enlighten me?

Just my 2 cents... The gyroscopic and cetrifugal forces on the bike in the turn will far outweighs the marginal weight transfer applied when pushing in the peg. Much of the downward force applied by your weight is being transferred to the bike at its COG and thus completely muted. In fact, I'd venture to say that the vast majority is actually dissipated through the peg such that, if you we're strong enough, you could break the peg off the frame. The real point, IMEHO, is bio-mechanical in nature. Look at a boxer when he throws a punch. A straight arm left requires him to push off on the right foot, while slightly pivoting inwards with the left. This causes the 'core' muscles of the thorax, the hip flexors, pecs, lats and even traps to help generate power, while the bones transfer the force, multiplying it and concentrating it into the hand and, thus, into the target. Like the old Karate adage says, your power comes from the ground. It's is the exact same theory at work here. Except on a moving motorcycle, there is no ground from which to draw power. So we substitute with pegs instead. Pressing against the peg engages the entire leg: quads, hams, hip flexors, adductors, abductors, everything. That's what locks you into the bike. From the obliques and lower back, through the last, intercostal a, deltoids and the rest of the arm, we get a tremendous amount of power we can use to counter steer the bike. In fact, geometrically more power is generated this way than from the arm alone, as one would expect when using 'traditional' counter steering technique. Lastly, by engaging the core, and the largest, most powerful and aerobic ally most capable muscles in the body, we gain the added benefit of being able to do it continuously for extended periods of time with little to no fatigue. Consider how much more energy and aerobic capacity is required to simply walk around the block. As we walk, the hips rotate forwards whole the shoulder routes back. If you we're to draw a line from the shoulder to the hip, first left to right, then right to left, you'd find an 'X' formed where the intersection of the X is right around the sternum, which is actually the center of balance,in the human body, while the center of gravity is about 1"-2" below your naval, just above the pelvic girdle. When these 2 locations a in line in 3 dimensional space, the body is in balance. On a bike they naturally line up when the torso is either above the hips, or laying on the tank. Anyway, what we're doing in this technique is using the natural movement along the 'X' plane to generate the forces required to steer the bike. Which is why it's so a) counterintuitive, effective and c) easy once you 'get' it. The primary reason I can attest to this is 15 years of martial arts training. As well as being an engineer, albeit a software specialist. In other words, I write code for a living.

I try very hard not to have any force on the bars, checking that my elbows are relaxed and hands as 'free' as they can be. Honestly all I do is lean in towards the mirror and open the inner knee. The other is locked as much as I can. No body position shift at all, and that why I'm asking. Knd of like the instru otr was doing while seated in the chair. Thanks for the replies, I guess I'll have to wait for class to figure it out. Thought it might be something sime & stupid on my part. Guess I'll just keep riding straight up unti then. Also can't help but recall images I've seen from Mullhand back in the 70s.

In the spirit of this thread, I've got a question... I'm 6'4", 285lbs and ride a K1300s. I've tried some preliminary moves at hanging off, but I've found that any significant weight shift really messes up my turns and lean angles. At most, shifting my torso to the inside (effectively 60/40) and letting my inside knee come out is about as far as I can go without making the bike feel very awkward. It's includes a highway transition (one highway to another) off ramp listed at 30 that I took at 90. Is it just me, or is it that my weight being almost 50% of the bike makes it that much more sensitive to weight transfer? Reason I'm going there is I tried my son's Yamaha 600 and even 'normal' riding seems like a wobbling top. Seems to me my weight really upset the balance of his bike making it scary for me to ride at almost any speed. And if the aforementioned is true, is what I'm doing now about as far as I can reasonable take it on the street? Haven't done a track day yet & going to the Level 1 class at Thunderbolt in August.

Quick flicks! Awesome idea... Hadn't considered that. I'll try it today...

Well, I'm a newbie at this, but my 2 cents... I ride a K1300s, which is 560 wet, and I weight close to 300. I am also a power lifter, but that's beside the point. I've owned the bike for a couple of months now, practicing at a local Sears parking lot that is, surprisingly, quite technical. Anyway, I've found that I can very quickly flick the bike on demand, and it's actually quite easy. No real stmfth required. It took me a bit to get used to it, but I basically did a variation of the side-to-side flicking excessive I saw on the UK CSS special. I started out slow, leaning and counter steering side to side, each time going a bit lower and a bit slower speed. Once I got that reasonably comfortable, then started adding corkscrews, kind of like this Japanese police bike competition I found on YouTube. It helped immensely! Not nearly as good as this guy, but I'm working on it... ;-) Police Motorcycle Test via McTube for YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1j_fxOgdqA

I live & ride in NJ. There is an area just outside Belmar, where route 35 meets 195 (aka rt 138). This is an exit that is an overpass with a flat-ish camber left sweeping turn, short straight, followed by a decreasing radius to the right that finally merges onto 195 West. On google maps it looks like a double apex, but sure doesn't feel like it when riding... But I digres. In the sweeper, there are a series of metal expansion joints that make it difficult for me to properly handle the turn. I leaned in once, held the lean and throttle and, when the rear tire hit the expansion joint, slid a bit before catching. There are 2 of these joints. Needless to say, this was a bit disconcerting, especially knowing that due to the the asphalt type and placement, it's sometimes hard to tell if the turn is wet. I've tried standing the bike up just before the joints, which does work very well in stability, but ruins my line. I've tried rolling off a bit while maintaining lean, but this is a bit scary considering the potential wetness issues. Basically, nothing I try seems to work, and I end up trying to save my line going into the DR prior to a highway speed merge. Any thoughts?

Guys: Thanks for the responses. I'll leave my Cardo at home, then ;-) and I know what to ask my kids for my B'Day... Would a good set of leathers hikers do in a pinch? I've got a descent set of jungle boots, but they're mostly nylon.

Well, I have to echo the OP to. An extent. I'm 6'4", 285-290, 54" chest. I already do Spinning for an hour twice a week, Yoga once a week, power lifting on a 6 day split. The only thing I've dropped recently is Karate as I just don't have the time for it. That said, I can't seem to find the right position on my BMW K1300s to hand off the bike with any level of surety. Bike weighs twice what I do, so it's stable, but ridiculously easy for me to flick by just shifting my weight around without hanging off. So, how do I try to hang off at my size, and given the way I can shift weight, would it be counter productive to even try hanging off? I just feel that bikes weren't meant to handle people my size sliding around on them like this. But I'm willing to try if it makes sense and the physics will handle it.

I'm 6'4", 285-290, 54" chest, 40" hips and 42" waist. I have requested school leathers as I don't own my own yet. D you guys have anything that will fit me? What is the deal on leathers for students? I'm considering pants and sliders for the Scorpion jacket, but considering a Coretech vented leather for summer wear (and better match with my BMW K1300s 30th Anniversary colors) I'll also need boots (I have been riding with hiking boots, but considering old school Nike high tops for street use) but I do have. Serviceable gloves. My helmet is a Scorpion EXO-900 Transformer. I've got a Cardo G4 on it. Sould I leave that at home, or is it an issue to listen to music while I'm on the track?

I just recently bought a BMW K1300s. I've got just about 500 miles on it, Meztler rubber as well.I've just gotten the chicken strips off. Had been riding a Honda Fury (factory chopper) for 4 yrs. would I be better off using my own bike, or using a school bike? I'm a bit concerned about the size/weight of the S1000r as I'm 6'4" and around 290. From sitting on the bike at the dealer, it seems a bit small to me. Also the reason I don't ride my son's FZ6R, it just feels too small. The K is aroundt twice my weight and flicks very easy for me. I'm getting very comfortable riding it. But I am worried about dumping it as I've never been on a track before. I really do like the feel of a sportier bike, and I'm beginning to really 'get' it. Reminds me of my childhood racing 10 speeds downhill. So, what you you guys recommend? School bike?

This a good topic to ponder I think, and really there is no right/wrong answer. I've done both 2-day and 1-day formats, and also did two 1-days back-to-back (a cheaper version of a 2-day). My first experience was a 2-day and honestly I can reflect now that it was awesome but very challenging mentally/physically since it was both my first time at school and also riding on a racetrack. I'm not sure that for me the 2-day was the best format for retention the first time around. The 1-day is much more relaxed overall and offers extra rest between sessions as well as time to reflect on the coaching. For track day regulars I suspect the 2-day is ok the first time. For newbies I now suspect maybe a 1-day (or two of them) would be a less hectic introduction to the track and CSS. Once you get to Level 3-4 I think it's easier to fit in a 2-day format because now you've had time to absorb most of the basics and can then use the extra track time of the 2-day to really immerse yourself and practice. I won't say I'm completely sure... just my random brainstorming this morning... On a related note, it never ceases to amaze me how some track day vets are offended at the notion they have to begin CSS with Level 1. I think perhaps they equate it to being reverted to "beginner" status and therefore beneath them. I also note many can be positively swayed by the explanation on how it simply is a systematic approach to training and you can't skip levels because each level builds on the last (as Cobie well stated above). I'm glad to hear that as I was thinking much the same thing. I'm taking a 1 day level 1 class at Thunderbolt in NJ this August. The idea being that there's so much info I'll need time to absorb it all and adjust. My riding for what I've learned. I've watched TotW 2 on YouTube at least 3 times since getting my new bike, try to implement what I've learned, and critique myself against the video each time I come home. Had previously ridden a Honda Fury, but recently traded in for a BMW K1300s and I'm trying to learn to ride the bike properly. It's is only my second bike, had the Fury for 3 1/2 years after taking the NJMSF course. Rode that bike over its mechanical limits more than once and paid the price twice. Don't want to do that again. I'm hoping to take level 2 and 3 on separate occasions next year, hoping to build my skills. I'm no Spring Chicken either (going on 51) but I'm wiling to take my time and do this right. Once can't fly into flying, to paraphrase Nietzsche... ;-)

Having taken the basic rider and advanced rider course at NJMSF, I must concur with Terri. We learned how to do this at 25-30 mph for both 'simple' hazard as well as a complex 'don't hit the bus' avoidance quick turn as part of the class requirements. For the basic class, this was go/no-go to pass the class and get our license. Besides hazard avoidance, we also had to brake to amcontrolled stop in a minimum stopping distance with control. I have used this technique at least 3 times in the 3+ years of riding. Believe me, it's really hard to pull off on a 690 pound Honda Fury. Recently picked up a BMW K1300s and will take the advanced class with it, but not until I've taken the CSS Level 1 class in August at Thunderbolt!!