StevenAthas

I will defintely be practicing this . Thank you as always! Actually. This is good advice. I have to be honest and mention I have given up temporarily on rev match downshifting while on the brakes to free my attention on other elements of my riding at the moment. It's one "extra" thing to think about and it's not quite as important as other elements such as body position and making it through the corner. I still do rev match out of habit. I might even stop doing that temporarily to free even more attention. Not rev matching on a twin feels really weird because of the amount of engine braking. That's why I was thinking about getting a slipper clutch. I think I will always rev match with a blip, but for the times that I may not blip hard enough (like in the case of multiple downshifts) I think a slipper clutch may do wonders. I've just never been on a bike with a slipper before so I have no reference point.

This makes great sense. As soon as I able to, I'm going to sign up for the school.

Screwdriver grip?? Was this in any of the books and I missed it? Throttle pricision is probably boosted by 100X... Gonna be trying this over the weekend.

On an off camber road, I wouldn't roll on the gas as aggressively as I would in banked type corner because my contact patch would be greatly reduced. On an on-camber road, or a banked turn (kind of the same thing, right?) I could roll on the throttle much more aggressively because I'd have a large contact patch allowing my tires to grip far better. I can't imagine needing to roll the throttle on more aggressively through a banked turn because the centrifugal force would already be forcing the suspension downward. I could be wrong though. In Twist II, I was very surprised to learn that when we get on the throttle the back end actually lifts up. The turn I'm talking about isn't cambered, but I'm happy to soak up as much knowledge as I possible can, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Hey Lyle, I don't think so necessarily, because the tension on the brake would be the same. It's not a matter of distance of the lever so much as it is movement of the blip causing my fingers to either grip the brakes harder or release too much. You are a wise man.. lol Yeah, I'll hold off on bliping into first gear

Hey csmith, That could very well be the issue (me being too tight on the bars). I have tried to loosen my grip on the clipons while doing this but I feel that I either don't match the revs right or I don't brake hard enough. It feels like I'm trying to blip with the palm of my hand and I just dont have a great "feel" for the throttle.

Hey rchase, I greatly appreciate your input. I'm pretty consistent and good at the blip rev match (as far as the timing is concerned). The bike never pogos from it and I don't let the clutch off too slow (If I use the clutch at all) and when braking I always use two fingers. I do have stock levers and I may benefit from getting some shortys. I actually really like the design of the levers you posted a picture of. It's the sliding of the fingers that I have a problem with. As I'm blipping the throttle, I wind up pulling on the brake more which causes the bike pogo a bit. Just doesn't feel very smooth.

Agreed. In street riding I normally just rev match and use the engine braking. I just bought a twin after riding inlines for many years and I'm really enjoying the way the bike feels as it decelerates from the engine braking. You can really feel the bike setting into the turn nicely. I just notice that after a long straight, I get really flustered and semi paniced as I'm coming into the turn because I feel like I'm either coming in too hot or on the other side of the spectrum, I feel like I'm going too slow from over braking and I don't really get the drive out of the corner that I would If my revs were higher. Btw, how do you like the slipper clutch? I was thinking of investing in one but I've never ridden a bike that had one installed so I don't even know what to expect from it. Do they wear down fast (high maintenence)???

Hey everyone, I have as of recent been a frequent visitor of the site and I'm really enjoying all the things that I'm learning. Had a question about technique on how to execute the blip, downshift with the front brake engaged. At slower entry points I use much of my engine braking, so rev matching works just fine but at higher speeds I'd like to avoid doing this because "engines are expensive and brake pads are cheap". My issue is that when blipping the throttle, I'm putting pressure on my brake lever which is causing the bike to pogo. I've tried practicing this but I feel like I either make the bike pogo, or wind up not applying enough brake. Anyone have any suggestions on technique? I use two fingers to brake, index and middle.

The two step turning technique really helped me with this. When approaching the corner and "scanning" for my turn in point, it keeps much of my attention focused on finding it and it makes me avoid the target fixation. After you find the turn in point, you then see the apex so it gives you another thing to focus on which I would imagine would keep you from "zoning out". I was watching a video last night where Andy Ibbott was talking about not looking TOO FAR away because it's basically useless. Definitely look where you want the bike to go, but I think scanning out 300 yards ahead of you isn't going to help you any. Just my .02.

Hey Mazur, Sucks to hear about your low side. I can tell you one thing, you came to the right place with questions about cornering. The ppl here are not only the best in the business, but explain things in a way that promotes knowledge and confidence. I'm assuming that since you came here, you already know about Kieth Codes book, Twist of the Wrist II. If you don't, it is pure gold for new and even experienced riders. It explains the mechanics about everything relating to riding a motorcycle effectively. Good luck out there.

So I went out this morning and had great ride. I felt far more stable on that corner when when I got on the gas early. The increase in elevation through the corner was nearly unnoticeable. I also noticed that approaching the corner a bit slower helped me feel more confident in flicking the bike over faster; and I was pretty much on the gas as soon I leaned the bike over and through the entire turn. I really appreciate everyone's feedback, advice and suggestions. I think the only reason I was able to have confidence in myself, was because I have full confidence in all of you and trust your knowledge. Thank you all again. Safe riding.

I feel a little bit of wiggle from the front tire at times, and it definitely feels like it's overloaded. Almost like it's bottoming out, but not to that extent. Just feels like it's at the bottom of its range. I see what you're saying.. If I get on the gas earlier it'll take some of the load off the front tire in the weight transfer to the rear. I gotta be honest with you though, sounds like SR city! I feel like I'm going to be pretty reluctant to get on the gas knowing that incline is there. If you entered the corner a little slower, at a speed you knew you would feel comfortable, would that allow you to roll on the throttle more and observe how the handling of the bike changes when you shift some weight to the rear wheel? If the bike felt significantly better with improved throttle control, could you then increase the entry speed a little bit each lap? The trick is to work up to it on a gradient that allows you to ride without triggering SRs, since (as we have already discussed) getting tense on the bars does not improve the bike's handling. You may have answered this earlier, but I can't remember - does the hill crest while you are still leaned over, or are you still going uphill as you straighten the bike up coming out of the corner? PS - good comment earlier about the "steer for the rear" section in Twist. Thanks I always read the book the day before I go out and when I get back from riding. I've pretty much memorized it. I think I see what you're saying. The fact that I'm coming in too hot to the turn is causing me to tense up and get on the gas too late into the turn which is keeping the front tire loaded and magnifying the impact from the incline. So, slower on the approach, and gas earlier through the turn.. Hotfoot also mentioned getting on the gas earlier and figured I'd be terrified of this. But I think coupled with a slower entry and gradually increasing the speed each time to get comfortable will help a lot. The hill actually continues upward after the corner, it's doesn't crest.

I feel a little bit of wiggle from the front tire at times, and it definitely feels like it's overloaded. Almost like it's bottoming out, but not to that extent. Just feels like it's at the bottom of its range. I see what you're saying.. If I get on the gas earlier it'll take some of the load off the front tire in the weight transfer to the rear. I gotta be honest with you though, sounds like SR city! I feel like I'm going to be pretty reluctant to get on the gas knowing that incline is there.

Well it's not so much going wide that I'm worried about as much as the front wheel reaction I get from the steep incline. I'm having to go so slow because of the load on the front, that going wide into the turn isn't much of an issue. I'm wondering if there's something that I'm doing wrong or something I can do better to help my forks from bottoming out (or close to) in that situation. And on the reverse; downhill turns. I want to get past that weird front tire levatating feeling. The book teaches that the steering, once in a lean, is done by the back wheel and its lean angle; so I understand that the front wheel isn't affecting my turning ability throughout the turn, but it almost feels like I have no traction on the front tire which is definitely causing some SR's.

Hey ktk. Thank you for your input. I agree that in most cases when going uphill leaning forward helps but in this case, the entire turn isn't uphill, it's actually mid turn, basically right at the point that you would be at full lean. when approaching the turning mark it's still flat (maybe slightly downward). Hope I'm being descriptive enough. Thanks for taking the time.

So just for clarity, we are talking about what happens just at the beginning of an elevation change? Not when you are actually on the hill, but at the beginning of the hill, right? Because once you are on an uphill, your forks would normally be extended, not compressed, and when you are on a downhill your forks would be compressed, not extended. I am trying to get a clear picture here because a sharp transition to a steep uphill or downhill that occurs *in* a corner is a pretty rare thing, even on mountain roads. In other words, are we talking about a hill in a corner (rare) or a corner on a hill (common)? Hey YellowDuck. Thanks for taking the time to respond. The elevation increase is fairly sharp and begins IN the turn....for example, when you hit the turning point, it's still flat (might even be going slightly downhill) and the hill comes up while you're pretty much at full lean in the corner. Yes, it's pretty rare. I can't really say I've experienced this issue on any other corner.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond to this thread, I'm truly greatful. Yeah, that makes a great deal of sense. For the most part I feel like I do that. But, it could very well be that this specific turn causes me to tighten up on the bars because of how sharp it is; especially if I'm charging it. Could it be that I'm not flicking the bike over fast enough and as a consquence I'm getting on the gas late which is not alowing the weight to transfer to the rear and keeping the front forks compressed? And do you believe that my inputs could also be my problem on corners with a steep downward elevation change through the turn? I would figure the downward input on the clip ons would be a benefit in that situation.

Based on what the book teaches, weight transfers from the front to the rear wheel, are done using the throttle. So, more gas?

Thank you, I'm happy to be here. And thank you for the advice lol I definitely am guilty of not always being relaxed on the bike. I think I still felt that way in those turns, but Twist II really helped me to understand and define the possible causes. Without the book, I would more than likely just think that the bike might be at its limits, but I think a realy strong point the Twist II makes, is that the motorcycles can handle much more than we can and that more often than not (probably 99% of the time), it's the riders input that causes problems. So to answer your question, I think I still had problems with those types of corners, but the book is helping me self reflect and try to find the underlying problem. Thank you. Yeah, I imagined there would be great information here. One of these days, I'll be able to save some money and actually attend the 2 day camp. To answer your questions: I have not had the bike's sag setup up to my weight. I actually very recently purchased this bike (Ducati 848evo) so I haven't had a chance to really modify anything. I generally brake early and blip, downshift and ride into the corner engine braking. Before the Duc, I've always had Inline 4's so I used much more front braking, but since picking up this new bike, I've been using a little less front brake, and relying more on my engine braking for my entry speed, but I do cover my front brakes for minor adjustments when needed. I definitely practice the 2 step rule religiously. It has done wonders for my cornering and for me to "be able to get on the gas as soon as possible". My lines greatly improved after I learned that. I found that I almost always turned in too early and flicked the bike over too slow. "Do you think your entry is too slow or too fast?" <---- This is the big question here lol. I don't always know... I feel like I'm charging the turn on my approach, but on my exit, I feel like I could have hit it harder.... And, to add to the problems, the uphill or down hill factor comes in which adds some instability. It's pretty frustrating. Especially when I'm pretty sure I'm the cause of the instability.

First off I would like to say that I hope I am able to attend this school one day. God willing, I'll try to save some money up because I see a huge value in all that is taught here. I have read Twist of the Wrist II and watched the DVD about 50-60 times and every time I seem to find something that helps me get just a little safer and smarter about my riding. With that being said... My question is: When dealing with sharp, less than 90 degree turns that have elevation changes either through the turn or just before the exit, what's the best technique to get around the turn smoothly without going overly slow or feeling like I'm pushing the front wheel?? The reason I ask this, is because when I approach tight turns that have a sharp upward hill, I feel the front forks compress and this feels really weird to me when I'm leaned over on the bike. Feels like the front wheel will wash out. Also, in that same token, when I approach tight turns with a sharp downward hill (like a corkscrew), I feel like my front end is at the top of its range and that also doesn't feel very comfortable. I don't know whether these are my SR's or if these turns just need to be ridden slowly. Is it my own handle bar inputs? Am I being too stiff on the clip ons? I thought I'd ask for some advice. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.