i-zapp

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i-zapp last won the day on April 4

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About i-zapp

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    Cornering Apprentice

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  • Have you attended a California Superbike School school?
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  1. are the "articles" archived? i remember one a few months ago (about weighting the foot pegs) and i never saved the email. gotta believe that good stuff is saved somewhere... and i'd like to re-read that email.
  2. considering doing level 3 on my own bike at NJMP in a couple months... is it on Thunderbolt or Lightning? Is one layout preferable over the other?
  3. 2 weeks left until Laguna! what a way to start the season - from not even sitting on a motorcycle in nearly 6 months (i hate the weather around here!) to jumping right onto a brand spanking new S1000RR. talk about trial by fire! can't wait....(gulp)
  4. whatchu talking about willis!??! I want my downpayment back! ;>)
  5. They said Nicky got his style from dirt track, but gotta tell ya I just love how loose Marquez is. He ALWAYS seems like he's dirt tracking. Wow.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t7RiKMUsDc
  6. bingo - that's it in a nutshell. I think it's the quintessential dilemma for most aspiring riders: how much faster can I go before it results in disaster? If it truly ISN'T a knife-edge limit, then I guess it comes down to the combination of a machine that's set up in a way that lessens the abruptness of the loss of traction (when that slip vs feel non-linearity becomes uncomfortably exponential), and a rider's willingness and ability to ride through it. the last part is why is finally decided to cough up the big bucks for two days at CSS at Laguna. I guess I was just interested in first hand testimonial from guys/gals that do ride deep in that slip zone.
  7. thank you for the article. having the "theoretical" knowledge is one thing, but FEELING it is quite another. I would imagine that the relationship between slip-angle and the rider's sensation in detecting it is not exactly linear. In other words, as you increase your speed and slip angle more and more, is there a point at which the tires SUDDENLY feel much less connected the road (whoah!), and this point defines the limit of cornering capacity? Or to be truly fast is it necessary to venture into this territory of slippy feedback and maintain balance and forward momentum? (and then what defines the REAL limit?)
  8. you could be right, but in my mind the challenge in measuring front wheel slip is that it's not really a longitudinal speed differential calculation since the front wheel doesn't really slow down, but rather detecting a departure from the intended longitudinal direction (a sudden, slight lateral movement of the front wheel with respect to the bike's expected path). I don't know how you could calculate that. but then again i'm a little hung over.
  9. it would be interesting (but very difficult) to inspect a student's lap, and compare the cornering G loads against the available tire traction. Although gathering the load data is possible with GPS based lap timers, knowing what the theoretical maximum available traction isn't easy. But if you did have reliable values, you could look at your combined acceleration (lat plus long) in G's, and then with a little algebra you could compare that to the tire's available coefficient of friction. That last part is tricky, but can be estimated at 1.2-1.4 for a properly warmed up performance tire. That means a capable rider should be able to push his bike to about 1.4 Gs before he/she starts to feel the limit of adhesion. Theoretically. If you COULD do this analysis, you could see how close you were to the edge and how much cushion you had. What i'm sure you'd find is a rider may be very close to that limit on some corners (possible the corners that he/she is in danger of crashing on), and on others have quite a bit of cushion. For the non-top-1%, it depends exclusively on your comfort level at that particular corner. For the fast guys, they can push INTO the slip zone and stay there. But for everyone else, it's uncharted territory. My point is that "novice" riders don't know where that limit is (could be close, could be far). I'm not looking to line up against Marquez, but as I develop my riding abilities, by definition I will become faster, and my frequency with flirting with sliding is going to increase. That makes me uneasy.
  10. Datalogging may reveal that the back tire is losing traction (front/rear speed bias), but there's really no way to electronically detect the front sliding. And THAT'S the crux of this post. With modern traction control strategies you can get the back end a bit sideways without much drama, and having tracked a low tech V twin liter bike for the last several years I've become accustomed to some sideways attitude on corner exit, but I'm WAY more interested in cornering: how much braking can you carry into the corner, and then how hard (fast) can you corner before you run out of traction. That last bit is the intriguing part. As a "planted and solid" type rider I THINK that i'm approaching the point at which my tires can no longer support the cornering load. It's a gut estimate. But if I take that corner faster and faster as my confidence increases, at some point things are going to change... hopefully the feedback from the bike is subtle but obvious and I get a sensation of sliding that I can recover from. Or, if I'm really comfortable, I can ride in that "slide zone" which is where I presume the top 1% ride. If the slider bike can teach that, i'll be tickled pink!
  11. thanks for the reply. signed up today for Apr 6-7. but to continue the dialog re the topic, your reply suggests that sliding is in fact a required skill set as you slice away at those last few seconds. and I consider myself one of those "planted and solid" type feel riders. assuming that I've got all the basics squared away (which I don't), i'd imagine that letting the bike get loose is something that i'll need to learn eventually. I don't expect to flirt with that on my rented S1000RR, but having the knowledge of where it is and how to ride through it is probably one of my biggest quandaries. although having my own trackbike I can throw down the track is convenient, i'd actually prefer NOT to! George
  12. I’ve spent a lot of time contemplating this particular topic, and it’s become all that much more significant as I am now seriously considering doing a 2-day event at a bucket-list location 2000 miles away (Laguna) that requires that I rent a motorcycle for said track day. The core of my dilemma is my belief that to go FAST a rider needs to approach a threshold of control/grip that tells him that any faster would result in the bike crashing. In my mind, for a half dozen MotoGP riders to qualify within a half second of each other requires that they are pushing their bikes/tires to a tangible REAL limit. It’s not arbitrary or a gray area, it is known (and felt) by each of those top riders who dance on that tightrope of control. Riders that exceed that limit either tuck or highside. Everyone else, from the bottom of the grid to the weekend trackday warriors, is either suffering from an inferior setup or machine, or is pussy-footing around the track because of their fear of falling (damaged bike, end of trackday or race, or injury). So, for me I’m looking at forking out a good amount of money to run an iconic track, on a rented motorcycle, with top notch instruction. The presumption is that a part of that money will going towards teaching me skills that will make me faster. If I was riding my own bike (dedicated trackbike) I could easily envision a fruitful experience. However, put me on a $15,000 motorcycle with a $2500 damage waiver, and my riding attitude and tolerance for risk will be much different. Will I be willing to tip toe towards that limit on somebody else’s bike? Not likely. (oh, and btw where exactly IS that limit...) Which brings me back to the fundamental question – if the fastest way around the track is at the edge of control, how do you teach that? (I know there’s a “slider bike”) Is that “limit” zone wide enough that skillful riders can approach it, enter it, and with the bike sliding through the turn, maintain control throughout? For an intermediate level, or even advanced level rider, that doesn’t really occur. We build speed, one trackday at a time, and just about the time we’re feeling pretty damn confident – yikes! and we have a little ‘moment’, or actually drop the bike. For me I think getting faster means being able to be comfortable with the idea that those moments MIGHT occur, and having the skills and reaction to catch it before it goes wrong. I’m not trying to become at racer, but wondering if that sort of thing is teachable and how it can persist (finding the limit on a special BMW slider bike is one thing, but what about your own bike, on a different track???).
  13. Chris, buddy, you sure make the forum rounds! Long time no see. So, back on topic, if a guy was interested in doing a two-day at Laguna next April, what's the drill? Like do guys fly into San Jose, rent a car, and stay at a hotel near the track? Any suggestions / recommendations?