Hotfoot

Sounds like you just did a school, in what areas DID you have improvement?

How long has it been between schools or trackdays (big track, not the minis, I know you do those too) for you?

They are amazing bikes. Glad you enjoyed the ride!

That’s a tough one. I don’t really have an answer but I’ll express my sympathy for your quandary. Sonoma definitely sounds like the better choice in your situation IF you could be sure to get in. But 5th on the waiting list is pretty far down. First thing I’d do is call the office and see how likely they think it is that you could get in. They may know some of the people on the waiting list or be able to look at the school signups and know some people cancel sometimes or who on the waiting list would definitely go and who is more likely to decline if it was offered last minute, etc. Honestly if it were me I’d sign up for THill and then if Sonoma opened up I’d do that, too.

I asked the boss for some input on this one, about advantages and disadvantages of sitting up while braking. Here are his responses: Regarding sitting up for wind resistance: "Sitting up for wind resistance is only of real value if the speeds are high, and it will tend to help keep the back wheel on the ground as the braking force is all up front and the bike will tend to rotate around that resistance point. So, there are benefits." On sitting up to show others that you are braking: "Ha ha, no one cares to let the guy behind know exactly when they are braking in racing. 🙂" Regarding keeping the arms bent, upper body low, and weight off the bars: "Keeping the weight off the bars is also a benefit for overall bike stability under heavy brake usage. It could be said that it's more stable under braking when weight (on the bars) is lessened or eliminated. It could also be said that lessening the pressure under braking gives the rider more control over the lever pressure as their hands aren't also being used to stabilize them on the bike. It also, as you know, tends to keep the front end from wiggling when there is less weight on the bars which does, as you point out, reduce the potential for locking up the front." I thought his point about the wind resistance at high speed helping to keep the back wheel on the ground was a GREAT point, and one I had forgotten about.

Ah, interesting, OK. And what specifically happens that indicates to you that your initial opening of the throttle is too aggressive? You mentioned in your initial post that it might be unsettling the chassis, what specifically do you observe or experience in that regard, that indicates to you that the throttle opening is too aggressive?

If you think of the corners where you most often have trouble with the roll-on, what types of corners are they? Fast and open corners, or slow tight corners? Late apex, or decreasing radius corners? Corners you can see through easily or blind/visually challenging corners? Uphill, downhill or off-camber...? Any info you can provide would help determine what sort of drills might help.

Generally not, no. I don't stay in a full tuck all the way around the track but I do not sit up to brake. Sitting up tall under braking increases the bike's tendency to stoppie, especially if the arms are straight and locked, and bracing on the bars can cause the bike to weave under braking and put too much load on the front end. It also makes it harder for me, personally, to get back down to a relaxed arm position to enter the turn. I get the best result by keeping my body low and my forearms parallel to the ground, so that if I have to press into the bars while under max braking, it is straight forward pressure and not downwards, and it is much easier for me to then release that pressure as I am letting off the brakes and be in a good position to enter the turn versus having to make a big motion to get into position. I do, at a couple of tracks where I race, sit up a little to increase wind resistance to slow down WITHOUT brakes, for a controlled entry into a very fast turn. I would probably also sit up under braking if I was braking unexpectedly and wanted it to be more obvious to anyone behind me on the track that I was slowing (and I'd get my hand up as soon as possible to signal.) Edit - I'll also add that if I can't SEE ahead, or if I don't have good reference points, I'd have to sit up to see farther ahead. But on the racetrack, if I have to sit up to see farther ahead, that tells me I don't have enough reference points for that braking zone or corner entry.

One simple thing you can do that can help smooth out your throttle crack-on and ALSO would help you not overslow in the middle of the corner is to try turning up your idle on your bike - if you have a bike that will allow that. Just be cautious when you first go out to ride with the higher idle as the bike will take you into corners a little faster than you are used to; start out with slower entries and a higher safety margin until you get accustomed to the difference. If you have a bike that won't allow you to adjust your idle speed, try lowering your engine braking, if you have the electronics for that. If you can't adjust your idle or engine braking, try entering your difficult corners in a gear higher, which should reduce your engine braking and make your throttle roll-on smoother. Here are a couple other drills to try: 1) No brakes drill. Take trail braking out of the equation in order to REALLY focus on entry speed. If the entry speed is correct, correct throttle control timing is easy to achieve. When it isn't right, it is extremely difficult! 2) Bracket the entry speed. Enter the corner a little too fast, then a little too slow, and observe how it changes your throttle timing. Find the entry speed that allows you to get back to the gas WITHOUT feeling the pressure to come into it too hard (which, as you correctly observed in an earlier post, is usually caused by the feeling of being too slow mid-corner and trying to make up for it with a quicker, harder roll on, or of being too late to begin the roll-on, which is generally caused by charging the corner.) 3) Throttle control slow roll - spend a session focusing on JUST controlling your throttle roll-on; it may be hard to force yourself to do this but if you do, it may uncover any ergonomic issues that make it difficult to control your roll-on, or reveal whether the initial entry speed was too high or too low (and give you information about how MUCH the entry speed needs to change). Have you been to Level 2 at CSS? If so I have some additional drills you can try.

Something that caught my attention - a few posts back you said when braking "but I also pop up, straighten my arms, and use my palms..." Do you mean you sit up for braking? Why do you sit up, versus staying low on the bike for braking? Do you then have to reposition your upper body and arms to enter the turn, and does that contribute to the lag in getting back to the gas?

I don't see anything here that I would disagree with, personally. It aligns with my experience that a rider who hangs off can hold a tighter arc (or go faster on the SAME arc) than a rider who doesn't, because they don't have to lean the bike over as far. Regarding bar pressure IN a corner (not initial steering pressure, but maintained bar pressure while the bike is already on an established arc), I personally wouldn't be trying to manage the steering torque to achieve a particular arc at a particular speed. Instead, I would manage the SPEED, for a given corner, to achieve "neutral steering" (no bar pressure). On a well setup sportbike with good (and warmed up) tires and good suspension, If the bike was tending to want to "fall in" to the corner (tightening its arc), that would indicate to me that I could carry more speed in that corner, so I would enter the corner faster and/or roll-on the throttle in the corner to create some acceleration to stabilize the line. If the bike was tending to go wide, that would tell me that I was carrying a bit too MUCH speed for the corner. Adding steering torque in the corner (pressing on the bar) restricts the ability of the front end to move, as it needs to, to accommodate the irregularities in the pavement. I'd be concerned that restricting that movement means I'm fighting the bike and compromising my traction by not allowing the front end to work as it should. I would not typically try to correct a bike drifting off line to the outside by adding bar pressure; I would either slow down until the line was under control, or use a hook turn position (hanging off more forward and to the inside) to correct the line without trying to force the steering. In practice, it is not often that we ride a constant radius arc at an exactly constant speed, in most cases we would be planning an line that would straighten the corner as much as possible, making decisions about how much speed to carry in and how much drive we could get going out, rather than trying to set a fixed arc and keep the speed exactly constant, so I'm not sure how useful, on a racetrack, the above data would be other than to illustrate that neutral steering IS possible and that hanging off DOES make a difference. Of course different types of bikes (cruisers versus sportbikes, for example) would have different steering characteristics and a cold or very worn and profiled front tire could change handling quite a bit - as an example, in my experience a very cold race-slick front tire will want to make the bike "stand up" in the corner, and you really do have to maintain pressure on the inside bar to maintain an arc, until the tire warms up.

Gripping the tank with both knees helps to stabilize the lower body which helps prevent the rider from having to use their arms to support the upper body. It would also probably help them understand "going with the bike" because it makes it more difficult for the rider to push the bike underneath them, motocross style, when steering. If a rider does not hang off the bike, both knees can be used to hold on. If the rider does hang off, the inside knee is usually opened up into the corner so the outside knee is used to hold on to the bike. Regarding your second question, that will depend on the shape of the corner and the line the rider chooses to use to approach it. There are some corners, like decreasing radius corners, where the rider may set the lean angle early in the corner but have to wait for the bike to arc around and get pointed to a late apex. A different rider might choose a tighter, more inside line approach to the SAME corner (perhaps when passing a slower rider on the entry), and/or may choose to steer it more slowly (perhaps to allow greater trail braking) and have to keep leaning it much deeper into the corner. The simpler answer is: once the bike is on a line that will get the rider through the corner, steering is completed. Where in the corner the bike gets on line will depend on the shape of the corner, how the rider enters the corner, and how quickly the rider steers the motorcycle.

On the conditioning question - mention to your coach and Level 4 consultant in the morning that you have a concern about that and they can take that into consideration as you work with them through the day. As you have already observed, keeping your pace below your max will help with both mental and physical fatigue, and we ask students to do that anyway so they have enough free attention to be able to work on specific drills. Additionally, if you refrain from using an extravagant hang-off body position when it is not needed, it will save a lot of muscle fatigue. Also keeping in mind that you have two days with lots of track time, and not pushing yourself on pace while you are still learning the track will help a great deal; if you have not been to the track before, visuals and reference points will be a big focus at first, to help you learn the track, and there is no reason to wear yourself out hanging way off or pushing yourself while your are still sorting out which way the track goes.

Congrats, I'm sure you will have a blast at the school! Yes the track direction will be run counter-clockwise both days. I couldn't see the map you linked to in your post, but here is a link to the LVMS track data on the CSS site: https://superbikeschool.com/the-curriculum/track-specific-data/#jump4 As far as getting to the track from the strip - there's a little hassle factor in that versus staying somewhere closer, but certainly the hotels are a lot nicer on the strip than they are in North Las Vegas. I have seen students use cabs, and others have used Uber. It can be a little difficult sometimes to explain to a cab where to find you in the track complex, because it is a large facility. Uber seems to do a little better because at least they can see where you actually are on a mobile app. Personally I prefer having a rental car so you don't have to fuss with waiting for someone to pick you up but you'll have to see if rental car rates are reasonable right now and what it would cost to park at your hotel, some of the resort hotels have parking fees. This is just my personal opinion but I'd check rental car & parking rates first, then if that is unreasonably expensive I'd probably use Uber - unless there is a line of cabs sitting at the hotel already, in which case maybe a cab going over in the morning and an Uber going back in the afternoon. Also, this may sound a bit far-out but some of the limo companies in Vegas offer regular cars (like a Town Car, not a stretch limo) and those can sometimes be the same price as a regular cab BUT you can schedule with them for specific pick up and drop off time and they tend for be more reliable than cabs, and more comfortable. It might be worth checking prices on that. Sometimes you can make friends with another student and ride-share, if you can find anyone else staying out by the strip.

Ideally you would keep both knees tight and gripping the tank during braking, only releasing your inside knee as you are leaning the bike into the corner. Both arms should have as little pressure on the bars as you can manage. Do you have any grip pads on your tank to help your legs grip? Why do you have to release your left leg to downshift, is it awkward to reach the shift lever? Are you blipping the throttle to match revs on downshift? Have you ever learned clutchless downshifting?

Rider education and skillful handling are hugely important, of course, and rider training is probably always the best motorcycle investment you can make - but having said all of that, the S1000rr is an extremely rider friendly bike. It is nimble but not twitchy, incredibly powerful but amazingly easy to control, the suspension is electronically controlled so it responds to conditions, and of course the ride modes allow you to set the rider aids how you like. I have other bikes but every time I get on one of the school S1000rrs I breathe a sigh of relief at how comfortable, easy to ride, and confidence inspiring it is. A couple of my other bikes are amazing training tools - because they force the rider to have excellent control - but they are a WHOLE LOT less forgiving than the S1000rr.

Absolutely. You will find the school well suited to exactly what you are looking for. Since you are in Georgia, the closest track for you would probably be Barber, in Birmingham. It's a beautiful track and a neat experience to go there. If you are interested in flying out and riding a school bike, Streets of Willow is the track that would most simulate street riding, with a lot of tighter technical corners. It is definitely OK if you are more focused on skills and techniques than on top speed, we are all about "the art of cornering" and the drills and curriculum will be on bike control and riding techniques, not about trying to get you to go as fast as you can in a straight line. There is no doubt in my mind that you will get what you are looking for AND have a great time doing it.

I am so pleased that A Twist of the Wrist II is available now on Amazon Video! I refer students to it all the time. One of the specific items I recommend it for is the great CG illustration of how countersteering works. It's much nicer to be able to stream it instantly instead of waiting for a DVD to arrive. You know what else? If you are ever looking for something to watch, when you go to the Twist II rental page on Amazon, it suggests other movies that people who rented Twist II watched, and it is such a cool list of motorcycle movies! Here's the link, take a look: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B089ZNVBW9/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r

Exactly, so turning in early makes it difficult, and counter productive, to quick turn the bike Your plan to investigate your two step sounds like a good starting point for improving your quick turn in those turns where you can see both TP and apex at the same time. If you can eliminate turning in early, you may find it much easier to improve your steering rate, which could then allow improvements in entry speed.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you had a great time at VIR!

If a rider had a correct apex chosen but turned in a little too early, what would the rider have to change about the steering to still hit that chosen apex?

That is a good observation. Do you give the turn point less attention in those situations? How much attention do you allocate to each point, or do you just view them together? If you allocate more attention to one point than the other, does that change during the corner? If so, when and what is the shift? If you increase your entry speed, do you still keep the same turn point or do you turn in earlier?

I don't claim to know this for a fact, but my first thought is this: countersteering takes the front wheel out of line with the direction of travel, creating the lean, and that creates resistance and some temporary deformation of the tire, and that if you try to push the bar quickly (but without increasing the force) the tire just sort of bounces back at you and you get a wobble instead of a real direction change, whereas a STRONGER push really turns the bars and creates a larger force at the contact patch to lean the bike over rapidly. That's my thought, but I'll try to get a more technical answer for you from the boss. The main thing we are trying to avoid is riders trying to "punch" at the bar, because that creates instability and a wobble in the steering. That is easy to test, go out and ride and try a very light (low force), controlled push on the bar and see how the bike steers. Then try a much firmer push with similar control (harder but not faster). Then try a very quick, low force stab at the bar (faster but nor harder) and see what happens. Which gives you a faster and more controlled steering result? When you try this, make sure you are going at a decent speed, over 25 mph, so that you don't accidentally oversteer and lean too far - it takes a lot less force to lean the bike over a very slow speeds so that makes the whole exercise of playing around with the steering more difficult.

What sorts of corners trigger your SRs? What do you think (or what do your SRs think) will happen if you push on the bar harder? There are way too many contributing factors involved to try to calculate how hard you'd have to push at a given speed. Handlebar length and angle (giving you more or less leverage) is an obvious one that can dramatically change the force the rider needs to impart, and its an item that varies a lot by motorcycle type and model. Steering angle of the bike, type of tires, etc. would all contribute too. Far simpler just to experiment with it for yourself on your own bike. For corners where you feel a bit uncomfortable steering the bike quicker, here are some things to observe when you ride, that could impact your confidence steering the bike quickly: 1) Do you have a specific apex chosen that you want to hit? 2) When do you look in to that apex, do you give yourself enough time to see it, to be able to make a positive and effective steering input? 3) When do you move your body, are you solidly in position before you have to make your steering input?

Yes, the amount of lean angle will depend on how LONG you push on the bar, and the steering rate (how quickly the bike leans over) will depend on how HARD you push. And your last sentence is stating it correctly, yes.