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Pivot Steering

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After reading about pivot steering. It seems important to only use the outside peg and your hands (to steer). How much, if any, weight is on the seat when pivot steering?

 

Is the idea to just press on the outside peg when steering, leaving some weight on the seat? Or lift my weight completely off the seat and ONLY onto the outside peg?

 

Thanks....Jim

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Jim,

 

You caught me on this one. There was a part of Pivot Steering that I had not understood when I wrote Twist II.

 

Yes, you do go light in the saddle when you pivot off your outside foot/leg. The intentiion isn't to get off the seat it just happens to be a natural result of using the quads in your outside leg as you pivot from that outside peg.

 

Yes, the weight that was in the seat does transfer: some onto your inside foot/leg some on the outside.

 

No, you do not have to try to lessen or change the weight that is transfered onto one or the other of those feet/legs.

 

This area of weight transfer and body position is a whole subject of riding technique and technology all by itself and it is very well explained in the Level III exercises we do at the school. I'll be covering it in Twist III as well but that isn't done yet.

 

Hope that helps,

Keith

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Thanks, I appreciate an honest response.

 

My body positioning needs plenty of work. I rarely feel "locked" onto the bike. In general, I tend to countersteer throughout a corner.

 

I'm sure I'll get better after I attend levels III & IV in 2004.

 

Thanks again.

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something i've found helps out some in locking on to the bike... i noticed in TOTW2 that kieth mentioned keeping your weight off your butt and on the pegs helps during corners... i've expiriemented some, that's definately true, it adds one more suspension travel to the bike/rider unit. anyways, i've found that by keeping your rear end off the seat while traveling in a straight line and changing your throttle input, (keeping your weight off the bars also, of course) really helped me understand just where i needed to clamp/press/hold on with my legs more... i then moved up to doing it while hanging off, and not having that inside knee makes quite a bit of difference on how you clamp on... but after you get used to it you feel rock solid on the bike wether hanging or not... it also helps alot with throttle control, because you feel what the throttle is doing more, due to having to hold on with leverage more against you. i don't know if this will work for all riders, but it worked wonders for me! i'm able to hang off, knee out, butt off the seat, and roll on without having my left hand on the bar even :) thanks keith!!!!!

 

btw... is this jim race of the ninja250.net forum? if so hi :)

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Jim,

Level 3 will put you right where you want to be...the off track static drill will demonstrate it with crystal clarity and once you apply the technique on the track, it all comes together.

Kevin Kane

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Jim,

 

WRT your comment about rarely feeling locked on the bike; if you haven't already- put it on the pit stand & have a buddy spot the bike for you. Test all gyrations of body positions you can, and see what works best.

 

I was surprised when a few friends did this, as each were already respected, super fast (Doc, Bobby & Steve Mac) and quite competent riders. What they all discovered was; the footpeg position needed some minor tweaking (mostly so the distance/position of the knee tucking into the tank was perfect). Once that got dialed in- they all reported marked improvement on being locked on the bike.

 

Most impressive to me was that here's three guys who still had such open minds (after years of riding) that they allowed something quite basic to come up on their radar & didn't hesitate to try something. Ego could have so easily kept that out of view...but not with these guys.

 

John

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Ego is such a barrier to learning! If we knew it all then what would be the point? That's what I like about Keith, he is still looking for answers and finds more questions!

 

Have you heard/read about his No BS experiment? The man has balls the size of the MOON!

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Have you heard/read about his No BS experiment?

Do tell....... :D

By the way, Jim, if you do own a 250. I have one too. Stock. Have to drive it with my body in the turns. Shutters too bad if I use my hands to steer. At 200lb, I'm really too heavy for it with no mods to the suspension(sons bike), but digging the knee in and turning the bike helps allot. The hands are on the handlebars for aiming..... :D:D

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Have you heard/read about his No BS experiment?

Do tell....... :D

By the way, Jim, if you do own a 250. I have one too. Stock. Have to drive it with my body in the turns. Shutters too bad if I use my hands to steer. At 200lb, I'm really too heavy for it with no mods to the suspension(sons bike), but digging the knee in and turning the bike helps allot. The hands are on the handlebars for aiming..... :D:D

Say What?

So you turn with your body and aim with the bars? Im confused.

will

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This is a very good question and one I would like to know more about.

After reading TOTW 2 I have been practicing putting my weight on the outer peg as I push my body to the inside of the corner.

In this I have discovered a few things.

1 I im not scraping my pegs any more,

2 The bike feels a lot more stable in the corners

3 After about 30 min of this riding I can hardly walk!!! :o

Is this normal or am I trying too hard. I have started doing all sorts of exercises to strengthen my leg muscles (Deep knee squats ect) Now im no weakling Im an

Air-conditioning mec by trade so I spend most of my days climbing ladders with toolboxes and 30kg bottles of refrigerant this is a great work out by its self.

I hope to attend the css 2 day course in Virginia this year but that?s a long way off can anyone offer me any advice on this.

Cheers Jeff

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Guest Guest_Keith Code

WAT COP,

 

You only need to pivot on the outside peg while you are pushing on opposite the bar to get the bike into the turn, not all the way through the turn--I can see why your leg gets tired. The only time you need to keep the outer leg flexed throughout the turn is if it is bumpy and that helps the bike handle the chop.

 

Keith

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Thanks Keith.

Now let me see if I have the process correct for a typical corner?

1 locate my RP

2 Brake up to the RP

3 As I cross my RP get off the brakes

4 Move my weight to the inside of the corner by pushing on the outside peg

5 Crack the throttle

6 Push forward on the inside handlebar

7 Settle my weight onto the bike and release the pressure on the outside peg

8 Continue to progressively roll the throttle on through the remainder of the corner

9 Move my weight back onto the seat as I approach the exit.

 

If this is correct, do I put pressure back on the outside peg to help the bike stand up or will this upset the apple cart?

:unsure:

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Which brings me to another question how late is ?late entry??

My friends are rather impressed at the complete change in my abilities since reading your books. One comment I often get is ?Man I thought you were out of it and almost overshot the corner!? I then get to explain to them about late entry cornering.

Now, I don?t ride on the track and all my riding tend to be on tight winding roads around the Adelaide Hills. My common RP for the corner is the white line on the edge of the road. I keep the bike straight and wide (Deep) of the corner until my front tyre almost crosses the white line before I flick the bike hard.

 

I have found this combined with the throttle exercise in book two have improved my cornering no end. The bike no longer steps out and I have great traction and power through out the entire corner.

 

What are your thoughts? Am I over doing it, or was this your intended method?

 

:blink:

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Jeff,

 

I think you'll find you've put "5 Crack the throttle" and "6 Push forward on the inside handlebar" in the wrong order. I'd also put 4 & 6 together. ;)

 

Cheers

Paul

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1 locate my RP

2 Brake up to the RP

3 As I cross my RP get off the brakes

4 Move my weight to the inside of the corner by pushing on the outside peg

5 Crack the throttle

6 Push forward on the inside handlebar

7 Settle my weight onto the bike and release the pressure on the outside peg

8 Continue to progressively roll the throttle on through the remainder of the corner

9 Move my weight back onto the seat as I approach the exit.

 

WAT COP,

Pretty close, just a few adjustments to that and you've got a nice procedure worked out.

Finding your entry point as far back as possible is good.

Depends on the turn if you brake all the way to the entry point and sometimes it is past it.

You should have already gotten off the bike in your hang off position well before you approached your entry point. Watch the pros, they are off early.

On the Pivot Steering the flex off the quads in your leg happens at the same time as the press on the bars and is relaxed at the same time as the press is relaxed.

At this point you (theoretically) have it pointed and the gas stabilizes the whole affair.

Where you move back onto the center of the seat has much to do with the corner: if there is a straight or another corner to contend with, etc.

 

This is the kind of thing that you can go round and round on thinking about it but is solved in minutes with an instructor's help, I'm sure you can see how that would be the easy route.

 

I'm pretty sure Twist II covers getting off the bike early and even that can take riders a bit of drilling to get right because most riders do it "naturally" wrong--they wiat until they are right at the turn and then move over. THese are the things that are covered in Twist III, sorry it isn't done yet it would make this so much easier if I could just tell you a page number to go to.

 

Keith

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