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chocadile

A Little Help Please

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I just recently did a trackday at NJMP thunderbolt and have a video I put together. I would love to here some constructive criticism any advice would be helpful.

 

Vid -

 

I can already identify a couple of problems I'm having.

1. Some corners I feel I am turning in to early. Example the first right in the chicane before the straight.

2. I need to get my upper body closer to the tank.

3. Not getting my body far enough off the bike?

 

Anything else you would like to add please do. I have raw footage of both views I can upload if more of either camera angle is helpful.

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Hey Chocadile,

 

Thanks for posting that up. Video is such a good tool for working on your riding isn't it?

 

You're getting along pretty good. Certainly your throttle control in T7 sounds really nice.

 

What levels of the school have you done?

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Real smooth. The only thing I can tell from the video is your body is crossed up in the lean, and as you've said, you're not getting close enough to the tank. Lots of riders do that though. Looks real good.

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Thanks for the replies.

Adam I've done levels 1 & 2. Hoping to get to level 3 in sept. :) You're right the video is such a great tool, escpecially when I can have you guys look at it and give me some advice. I need to get one of those tower things you guys have on the camera bike.

 

Hey jody I believe I met you at this day(Roger Lyle 7/16). I was at the other end of the garage, and using Guss's computer all day to review my vids. I was on the black and silver f4i.

 

Hubbard I'm thinking I'm getting crossed up because I'm not properly locked onto the bike and still holding onto the bars too much? What should I do or practice to get rid of this habbit. I need to remind myself to get my body lower on the bike, it must be a comfort thing. Thanks again for the replies keep them coming.

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Great!

 

Well, of the 3 points you identified for improvement, 2 of them (points 2 and 3) will be addressed in great detail in level 3, so I leave that to Cobie and his crew :)

 

Your observation of where you're turning the bike is an accurate one, and one worth putting some attention on.

 

If you wanted to turn a little later, in the first right in the chicane before the straight for example, could you just pick a later turn point? Or would you need to make other changes too?

 

There's some great reading on this exact point in Twist fo the Wrist II by the way. Pages 66-78 in particular.

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I'm teaching my wife the basics of track riding, and haven't come across fixing that problem with her yet. She does have a problem locking in, and I started her with a drill to not put pressure on the bars, and have incorporated a locking in aspect. When I'm setting up cones I have her ride around a huge parking lot with her chest on the tank, and keeping her hands loose on the bars. She's just holding them. NO pressure. All her weight is on the tank. She only gives input in the direction she wants to go. It's a slower drill (over 20 mph for counter steering purposes), and to work on locking in, when she is turning, without shifting her BP, she just locks the outside leg in during the turn. She said it's even becoming practice when she's street riding (locking in the leg), she does it so much. It's helping her a lot.

I'm a little off when I'm braking because I shift my butt before I start braking, but once I start cornering, I make sure the center of my chest is farther over than my gas tank.

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Adam I am really looking foward to seeing the CSS crew again in sept. I actually had Cobie as a coach for a day last time I was down there. As far as fixing the turn in point. I think there might be two things I could do. The first would be to wait a little longer to turn in but turn the bike quicker. The second would be to pick a better line. I would need to stay closer to the candy stripes in the exit of the very long lefthander and that would then set me up for a later turn in point where I could carry the same speed and not have to adjust how fast I'm turning the bike.

 

Hubbard that is a drill I'm gonna give a try. Just need to find an empty lot now. I find it very wierd to be so low on the bike. I don't do it on the street and what is comfortable to me is a dirtbike seating position, so this is something I need to get used to, which will probably come with more track time.

 

Thanks again guys your post have really got me thinking.

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Hubbard that is a drill I'm gonna give a try. Just need to find an empty lot now. I find it very wierd to be so low on the bike. I don't do it on the street and what is comfortable to me is a dirtbike seating position, so this is something I need to get used to, which will probably come with more track time.

 

Thanks again guys your post have really got me thinking.

I don't know how well it works for others, but it's really successful with my wife. Remember that it's not about getting fast, but reenforcing habit.

My thought on the block when one starts getting lower, is that you're getting your head closer to the ground than normal, and you're stuck on the limit you've set for yourself, and exceeding that forces you to lock up and conform to a new limit, which is possibly less lean than you're actually used to. I'm still working on that as well, and getting my knee down, which is my measurement of my lean angle, became much less frequent for a while.

Good luck.

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Turn at a later point, and steering it quicker is a good plan Chocadile. Are you comfortable that you know exactly how to get the thing steered quicker?

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Hubbard - I'm sure it will help. Just practicing being that low on the bike will help me. Majority of my riding is done on the street and I just don't ride like that going down the road. I'm pretty much in an upright seated position while riding and that's what I've been used to. Now getting low on the bike is something that is unfamiliar to me. I know with time it will come. When I first started doing trackdays just tucking in on straights felt very wierd and I am now getting used to that feeling. That is why I think you steering drill will be very helpful to me, just need to find a large empty lot. I also talked with Dylan about this last year and he told me that it will take sometime to get used to seeing the track from this position.

 

Adam - I feel as though I am turning as quick as I can in that section. I know I could do it better or faster but I think my body posistion on the bike is what is hindering my quick turn. When I did my level 1 we did just the plain ole steering drill just turning right to left, and that taught me that when my shoulders and elbows are lower that I have more power and control with my inputs.(also taught me that I was pushing the bike underneath me when I was steering) For some odd reason I'm not doing this all the time on the track. Liike I mentioned earlier I'm still getting used to riding the bike like it is supposed to be ridden, and not street cruising.

 

I will be taking level 3 at VIR on 8/31 so hopefuly I'll get some time to work on these problems with the coaches, can't wait.

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I don't know what kind of camera you had but it was good quality! Like Hubbard said, you are crossed up but that is easy to fix. I suggest looking more toward the turn..aiming your head toward the entry, apex and exit and turn you head as though you are telling the bike " I want to go this way!" The other thing I noticed is you could carry a lot more speed through the corners.

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When you're riding on the street, you don't have to get all the way down, but what you can do is make sure that when you're turning that your sternum is to the inside of your gas cap. Since you probably do more street than track, it will quickly become habit. Write it on some tape and put it somewhere on the bike so you can see it constantly. I have something on my bike now that reminds me to loosen my arms while I'm turning.

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Good Idea Hub!

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Thanks a ton guys all the advice is great. The camera I'm using is a go pro, the quality is awesome, and it's even better before you upload the videos to youtube.

 

Fossil, I like your idea about telling myself that I want to go there or here, it should help me to think more about what I want to do opposed to just relying on muscle memory and making the same mistakes over and over again. Believe me I would love to be carrying more corner speed just need to figure out how.

 

Hubbard, next mod to my bike will be a piece of tape reading "move body to turn!!"

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I'm a little off when I'm braking because I shift my butt before I start braking, but once I start cornering, I make sure the center of my chest is farther over than my gas tank.

 

Ahem, excuse me, but I see nothing wrong with this technique?

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What's Up Jaybird? I agree with you about the technique. I don't see anything wrong with it either and if I were to explain my technique, it would be much similar. The postion I saw in the video is what I thought was off. Chocadile's body position looks like a "bow". He is getting his butt off before the turn but keeping his head over the center of the bike.

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What's Up Jaybird? I agree with you about the technique. I don't see anything wrong with it either and if I were to explain my technique, it would be much similar. The postion I saw in the video is what I thought was off. Chocadile's body position looks like a "bow". He is getting his butt off before the turn but keeping his head over the center of the bike.

Haven't had a chance to view the video. They recently started frowning on videos at work.

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Hubbard, next mod to my bike will be a piece of tape reading "move body to turn!!"

 

Since you're going to be putting something in front of you to help with body position, are there some reference points on the bike you can use to help you get the correct position with your upper body? Maybe align a part of your body with a part of the bike?

 

 

One comment about how I ride on the street and how it's different on the track. My BP on the street is geared toward giving me a good view of traffic, so it's necessarily more upright. Choco, you do this in the vid, where your head is leaning away from the turn (this also keeps the horizon level). This is a good technique for the street, keeping your head higher to see more and avoid all the cars trying to hit you.

 

On the track you don't need to do this. So how would you change your head position?

 

Enjoy Level 3, since it will focus on getting your body to work with the bike.

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Hubbard, next mod to my bike will be a piece of tape reading "move body to turn!!"

 

Since you're going to be putting something in front of you to help with body position, are there some reference points on the bike you can use to help you get the correct position with your upper body? Maybe align a part of your body with a part of the bike?

 

 

One comment about how I ride on the street and how it's different on the track. My BP on the street is geared toward giving me a good view of traffic, so it's necessarily more upright. Choco, you do this in the vid, where your head is leaning away from the turn (this also keeps the horizon level). This is a good technique for the street, keeping your head higher to see more and avoid all the cars trying to hit you.

 

On the track you don't need to do this. So how would you change your head position?

 

Enjoy Level 3, since it will focus on getting your body to work with the bike.

 

Try putting your head on either side of the wind shield at a point where you head is not much higher than the top of the wind shield. You will help weight the front and get off the center line.

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Hubbard, next mod to my bike will be a piece of tape reading "move body to turn!!"

 

Since you're going to be putting something in front of you to help with body position, are there some reference points on the bike you can use to help you get the correct position with your upper body? Maybe align a part of your body with a part of the bike?

 

 

One comment about how I ride on the street and how it's different on the track. My BP on the street is geared toward giving me a good view of traffic, so it's necessarily more upright. Choco, you do this in the vid, where your head is leaning away from the turn (this also keeps the horizon level). This is a good technique for the street, keeping your head higher to see more and avoid all the cars trying to hit you.

 

On the track you don't need to do this. So how would you change your head position?

 

Enjoy Level 3, since it will focus on getting your body to work with the bike.

 

Try putting your head on either side of the wind shield at a point where you head is not much higher than the top of the wind shield. You will help weight the front and get off the center line.

 

Another good way of stopping getting crossed up on the bike is where you aim to put your chest, I find that if you aim to get your left nipple over the filler cap for right turns and vice-versa for left turns, it places your whole upper body in the perfect position for cornering!

If your riding like this and have to hook turn, all you have to do is point your inside elbow towards the ground!

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briang - You make a really good point about the differences between riding on the street and track. I've never thought about it like that(survival vs. outright performance) in respect to BP. The part of the bike I'm trying to align with is my head over my inside handle bar. When I'm on the track I'm trying to get lower on the bike and as the days go on I feel more and more relaxed and familiar with it.

 

Fossil - this is what I'm trying to accomplish. I just need to focus on it and practice it. I need to feel comfortable in this position. There was one thing I noticed while out riding this weekend. When I started to get my upper body off to the inside, bending my inside elbow and kinda pulling my upper body to the inside. I say kinda pull because I'm not putting any input into the bars but really just bending my elbow. This felt really good to me and put my upperbody in the proper position, or what felt like the proper position.

 

Ace - thanks for the great idea. I will try it out and that should help me. One thing I noticed while doing trackdays this year is, that what i think my BP looks like and what my BP actually is are two completey different things. So the more RPs I have to check off like a list, the more I can correct. So now I have 3 Rps to let me know if my BP is correct. My head over my inside hand. Head next to and even with or below the windscreen, and my nips over the filler cap. I can't wait to learn what a hook turn is and how it's done. I'm really pumped for level 3 and just to ride VIR again, what a great track.

 

Thanks again guys everyone has been really helpful.

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Hey guys I just wanted to throw up this video to show the progress that I've made with my BP. I think I started to work out getting my upper body off the bike. Thanks for all the help and suggestions it's starting to pay off.

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Since you're going to be putting something in front of you to help with body position, are there some reference points on the bike you can use to help you get the correct position with your upper body? Maybe align a part of your body with a part of the bike?

 

Wow. I had no idea this topic was still going. As Fossil said, you can try getting your head somewhere on the other side of the shield. I put my outside shoulder on the inside part of the tank. I hate it when people say "put your head where your mirrors are/would be." I've rarely ever seen that alone doing the trick. Getting your chest on the tank will get you low enough to start with.

I'm going to really work on opening my hips to the turn. I think it'll be a major change in BP, and will really improve my comfort and vision. I'm going to focus on turning my hips into the turn and bending forward. That'll keep everything in line, and the little chance I've had to mess with it, it's feeling real good.

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