cbirston Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Hey guys, I have a bit of a dilema that I'm hoping the forum can help me out with...I just started to do some track days and am considering racing. I am currently using my 00 R1 steetbike for both street and track...the problem is ...that as a novice at our home track the more experienced guys are telling me that a 1000 for our track is too much bike! Mistakes that happen on a liter bike are big and that a 600 is more forgiving. That being said...When I first learn to ride I rode a 600 Katana for 2 mos before I ran out and jumped on the R1. Ive had that bike since it's birth (I even did the delivery - uncrating it). I know that bike, and I know it well. The up side is that it's bought and paid for already...The down side is...can a bike really be too big for a track?? Thanks, BCNU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Hey guys,I have a bit of a dilema that I'm hoping the forum can help me out with...I just started to do some track days and am considering racing. I am currently using my 00 R1 steetbike for both street and track...the problem is ...that as a novice at our home track the more experienced guys are telling me that a 1000 for our track is too much bike! Mistakes that happen on a liter bike are big and that a 600 is more forgiving. That being said...When I first learn to ride I rode a 600 Katana for 2 mos before I ran out and jumped on the R1. Ive had that bike since it's birth (I even did the delivery - uncrating it). I know that bike, and I know it well. The up side is that it's bought and paid for already...The down side is...can a bike really be too big for a track?? Thanks, BCNU Hi mate, I think its not only a question of is the bike to big for a track, but also is the rider able to deal with the power of a 1000. A modern 600, makes about 125bhp, your 1000 makes say 150bhp. The 600 is more nimble, lighter and the power and torque are much less intimidating. Ask yourself, how often do you find yourself able to fully open your existing bikes throttle to the stop. You'll pretty much answer your own question with the answer! Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbirston Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 How'd you get so smart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbirston Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 ...but does it really matter if you can fully open the throttle...there is only 1 staight the rest are all corners (9)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 You've already ridden the track on a literbike. You should ask yourself whether you're comfortable riding a 1,000, or if you'd rather go to a 600. I wouldn't mind trying out a literbike on a track. If I got into racing, I'd probably stay on a 600, or even go to a twin. You can enter superstreet, superbike, AND unlimited on a 600, but not on a literbike at the tracks here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 You've already ridden the track on a literbike. You should ask yourself whether you're comfortable riding a 1,000, or if you'd rather go to a 600. I wouldn't mind trying out a literbike on a track. If I got into racing, I'd probably stay on a 600, or even go to a twin. You can enter superstreet, superbike, AND unlimited on a 600, but not on a literbike at the tracks here. on a lot of tracks, and certainly one where you can't really open the throttle to get the benefit of a 1000's power, you'll find the 600 will be pretty much as quick as a litre in laptimes anyway. If the track is all corners, a smaller bike will always be better in the turns, less mass, easier to apply that throttle on way out of turns. Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregGorman Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I race an '08 ZX-10R. I think I might actually be faster on a well prepped 600 but I know I'd have more fun on a 600. Compared to a 1000, the 600 just feels light, nimble and almost toy like. The effort level to ride a 600 fast is much lower than a 1000. And that Katana 600 doesn't count for experience on a race prepped ZX-6 or R6. Having said all that, I would only wish the 600 novice class on my worst enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hey guys, I have a bit of a dilema that I'm hoping the forum can help me out with...I just started to do some track days and am considering racing. I am currently using my 00 R1 steetbike for both street and track...the problem is ...that as a novice at our home track the more experienced guys are telling me that a 1000 for our track is too much bike! Mistakes that happen on a liter bike are big and that a 600 is more forgiving. That being said...When I first learn to ride I rode a 600 Katana for 2 mos before I ran out and jumped on the R1. Ive had that bike since it's birth (I even did the delivery - uncrating it). I know that bike, and I know it well. The up side is that it's bought and paid for already...The down side is...can a bike really be too big for a track?? Thanks, BCNU HI BCNU What sort of other bikes are other people riding at your local track, infact what is your local track? What I have discovered since I started track riding is that you hear alot of different opinions from various sources on different subjects e.g those tyres are no good for trackday's, this track is best for 1000s, this track is beat for 600s etc etc etc. The point is you have what you have so use it, if your only ever going to ride that one track then it may be worth looking for a trackbike to suit it, if your riding different tracks then you will find a compromise for each track! You said that you are riding in the novice group so it may be worth focusing on moving into the faster groups and learning good technique before worrying about racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Having said all that, I would only wish the 600 novice class on my worst enemy. Now thats an other totally great point! Axe Murderers at 10 paces. Its fair to say entusiasm plays a bigger part in the racing than skill, but its a learning experience for sure, whether thats good or not is another matter! Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbirston Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Ace, Alot of the guys at my track have both 600's AND 1000's...as I said...I'm CONSIDERING racing...learning good technique is a full time job weather you are on the street or the track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'd still go back to what you're comfortable on. If you're already doing well on the 1000, I wouldn't worry about going out and getting a 600. It will leave you wanting. I know people who do track on the literbike and do just fine. Most people who've converted from stunting go from either a large twin or a literbike down to 600's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuman Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Based on my experience racing both 600s and 1000s... Yes a 1000 can be too big for a tight track. I set the lap records for all the open classes at The Streets of Willow. However the Track record has been held by a 600 since they started keeping track (First Will Eikenberry, Then Jeff Tigert, Then Tommy Aquino). I have no doubt that I could probably go faster on a well prepared 600 then on my 1000. That said, if your considering racing I would look into a Ninja 650 or SV 650 as a place to start. We call the middle weight classes the Ax Murderer classes with good reason, and the Heavy weight classes are only slightly better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregGorman Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have no doubt that I could probably go faster on a well prepared 600 then on my 1000. Now that's a real definite maybe there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fajita Dave Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have no idea how good of a rider you are but you have to make sure you're throttle control is going to be ready for a race in the 1000 class. On the motocross track I used to wreck quite often from poor throttle control when someone starts to pressure me. I got used to the pressure pretty quick and now I have no issues with that at all. For most people racing is a totally different animal and the only thing that can prepare you for racing, is racing and learning to keep your nerves under control. I've never ridden a 1000 yet but a 600 would probably be a lot more forgiving when you push it a little to far trying to keep up with the guy in front of you. Other then that I don't see why it would matter what bike you're on. Racing is about going as fast as you can on the machine your riding with the track and conditions you're given. So it doesn't matter what you're racing its about how well you do it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have no idea how good of a rider you are but you have to make sure you're throttle control is going to be ready for a race in the 1000 class. On the motocross track I used to wreck quite often from poor throttle control when someone starts to pressure me. I got used to the pressure pretty quick and now I have no issues with that at all. For most people racing is a totally different animal and the only thing that can prepare you for racing, is racing and learning to keep your nerves under control. I've never ridden a 1000 yet but a 600 would probably be a lot more forgiving when you push it a little to far trying to keep up with the guy in front of you. Other then that I don't see why it would matter what bike you're on. Racing is about going as fast as you can on the machine your riding with the track and conditions you're given. So it doesn't matter what you're racing its about how well you do it . Not off the mark here. Looking at the progression of top racers, pretty much all of them have started on the smaller bikes, and then moved up, pretty sure the top crop of world class racers have gone that route--125's, 250, Motogp. I'm faster on a 600 than a liter bike, and as Stuman said, certain tracks (like the Streets), the outright record is on a 600. In the end though, sometimes you have to race what you've got! CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbirston Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks everyone for your input, muchly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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