Slow, Look, Lean, Roll

[lakebum]

Hi everyone. I was wondering wich one is the proper technique when cornering :leaning and roll on simultaneously or on a different time like: first lean and then crack the throttle? Thanks

[Crash106]

Hello LakeBum and welcome to the discussion.

 

I had some trouble with my cornering until I started letting the bike lean in and grip before rolling on the throttle. "Twist II" covers the many advantages of being on the throttle while cornering. However, you have to read closely to see where it says something like, "Get on the throttle as soon as possible after leaning into the corner." For me, I'm just not talented enough to predict how much throttle I'll need before I need it, and I'm not sensitive enough to roll the throttle on while I'm falling into the corner. For me, and I think for most other people, everything works much more smoothly if I roll the throttle on after I get the bike leaned in and pointed toward the apex.

[lakebum]

Hello LakeBum and welcome to the discussion.

 

I had some trouble with my cornering until I started letting the bike lean in and grip before rolling on the throttle. "Twist II" covers the many advantages of being on the throttle while cornering. However, you have to read closely to see where it says something like, "Get on the throttle as soon as possible after leaning into the corner." For me, I'm just not talented enough to predict how much throttle I'll need before I need it, and I'm not sensitive enough to roll the throttle on while I'm falling into the corner. For me, and I think for most other people, everything works much more smoothly if I roll the throttle on after I get the bike leaned in and pointed toward the apex.

Hello Crash106 and thank you very much for replying.You are very right! For too long i have misunderstood that info, thinking that it was safer to stabilize the lean with the throttle after the flick. Today i was cranking the throttle a bit later leting the bike to settle well before and it was fine. I have read "Twist II" , and i have finished the SBK level 1 in my country but i m still getting a litlle comfused sometimes. Thank you.

[Cobie Fair]

Its in Twist 2 for sure, anyone know the exact page? The part about getting the bike pointed/steered before you rolling the gas on?

 

What happens if one rolls the throttle on before finishing the steering? What happens to the line the bike will take?

 

CF

[lakebum]

Its in Twist 2 for sure, anyone know the exact page? The part about getting the bike pointed/steered before you rolling the gas on?

 

What happens if one rolls the throttle on before finishing the steering? What happens to the line the bike will take?

 

CF

 

Yes that was exactly what was happening, i had good lean and confidence, but i was running a bit wide wondering what the problem was...thx

very well said .

[johnnyrod]

It's a basic (but therefore important) thing, so now I find I'm questioning myself too... What exactly do you mean "after the bike's turned in"? because (esp. on the road) my lean angle increases towards the apex then decreases as I head out the exit, safe but slow. Fastest way on the track would be to tip the bike over quickly to the lean angle you want rather than doing it slower (quick turns drill) but what's the right point to pick up the throttle? Once the bike is at the lean angle you want and not before? (wouldn't this mean the front is well loaded up so more likely to slide?) just as it's reaching it? (I think this is what I do) Am I splitting hairs?

 

 

[lakebum]

Once the bike is at the lean angle you want and not before? (wouldn't this mean the front is well loaded up so more likely to slide?) just as it's reaching it?

 

This is a good point...i wonder too...

[ninjaridaz]

Once the bike is at the lean angle you want and not before? (wouldn't this mean the front is well loaded up so more likely to slide?) just as it's reaching it?

 

This is a good point...i wonder too...

Should be off the brakes by then?

 

 

 

[Crash106]

Grab your copy of "A Twist of the Wrist II" and turn to chapter five on "Throttle Control." Pay special attention to pages 25 and 26. I would quote the details here, but you really need to have a copy of the book. It's the best $20.00 you can spend to improve your riding.

[briang467]

It's a basic (but therefore important) thing, so now I find I'm questioning myself too... What exactly do you mean "after the bike's turned in"? because (esp. on the road) my lean angle increases towards the apex then decreases as I head out the exit, safe but slow. Fastest way on the track would be to tip the bike over quickly to the lean angle you want rather than doing it slower (quick turns drill) but what's the right point to pick up the throttle? Once the bike is at the lean angle you want and not before? (wouldn't this mean the front is well loaded up so more likely to slide?) just as it's reaching it? (I think this is what I do) Am I splitting hairs?

 

I definitely think you're not splitting hairs, since the exact timing of when you get on the throttle is important.

 

If you say "My lean angle increases towards the apex and decreases towards the exit," what does this mean for the number of steering inputs you're making per turn? Does constantly steering your bike through the turn make you feel busy? Could you make the bike more stable and smooth if you quick turned it to the lean angle you need for that corner and _then_ got back on the throttle? As Cobie asked, if you get on the throttle as you're turning, do you go wide?

 

About the front/rear weighting, if you finish your braking before turn in, allowing you to get off the brake, how does the front/rear load change?

[lakebum]

Grab your copy of "A Twist of the Wrist II" and turn to chapter five on "Throttle Control." Pay special attention to pages 25 and 26. I would quote the details here, but you really need to have a copy of the book. It's the best $20.00 you can spend to improve your riding.

In to my copy "Twist of the wrist II",page 25 it says "steering is completed before you start to get it on". At page 27 it says..."I try to get the throttle on just before max lean angle for the turn.This is how you get the bike to settle into the turn comfortable. The grip on the right is the fun regulator."

 

Am i missing something here?...

[lakebum]

Its in Twist 2 for sure, anyone know the exact page? The part about getting the bike pointed/steered before you rolling the gas on?

 

What happens if one rolls the throttle on before finishing the steering? What happens to the line the bike will take?

 

CF

Finishing steering means that one is at full lean?

[johnnyrod]

lakebum, my question exactly. Briang, let me try to work it out...

 

1 Braking - load on front, then let off brakes, front rises, weight moves back

2 start turning in, load on front as it's changing lean angle (getting pushed over)

3 Stay at constant lean angle: some load on front but fairly balanced. Use a bit of throttle here to load the back a little and to be ready to use throttle control if it slides

 

So if I run 1 into 2 it'll keep the front more settled (not proper trail braking, I'm not up to that, just stopping it pogoing). If I don't pick up the throttle until 3 then it could end up moving the weight too far back until it settles down? If I can pick up the throttle between 2 and 3 then it'll ease the transition, perhaps, or at least turn two weight transfers into one. Am I thinking it through right?

 

In terms of my constantly-increasing lean angle towards the apex, I do so because I'm not able to just chuck it over and hold it at a constant angle, either confidence (track) or grip (road, where you need more safety margin and/or can't see right through the bend). You're probably right, I am leaning on the steering too much, but I'm probably too used to doing it, i.e. bad habit from road riding. More throttle at this point? Not sure is the honest answer, harder to turn in I think so end up running wide of the apex etc.

[ktk_ace]

lakebum, my question exactly. Briang, let me try to work it out...

 

1 Braking - load on front, then let off brakes, front rises, weight moves back

2 start turning in, load on front as it's changing lean angle (getting pushed over)

3 Stay at constant lean angle: some load on front but fairly balanced. Use a bit of throttle here to load the back a little and to be ready to use throttle control if it slides

 

So if I run 1 into 2 it'll keep the front more settled (not proper trail braking, I'm not up to that, just stopping it pogoing). If I don't pick up the throttle until 3 then it could end up moving the weight too far back until it settles down? If I can pick up the throttle between 2 and 3 then it'll ease the transition, perhaps, or at least turn two weight transfers into one. Am I thinking it through right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally find cornering at the right entry speed and right point to be quite a bit to handle already,

 

so doing 1 and 2 together messes up the bikes sus and my 10 dollars worth quite alot!

 

 

 

 

 

thats just me but maybe if you have more of the 10 dollars worth of attention  to spend after getting the points and speed perfect, then i say its probable.

 

 

 

 

but the chances that the suspension will go out of the optimum range (bottom instead of the 1/2-2/3 sweet spot) due to 2 actions (braking+cornering) is high too ,

 

so its quite extreme to me.

 

 

 

 

But hey, pro's use extremes as tools so...