What Is The Right Pressure?

[khp]

Kai (I'll be stepping outside while I rant over tires not being the same across the world).

Its hard to compare tires from one continent to another. Some tires are manufactured and supplied to certain regions.

 

where are you racing/riding? what tracks?

Hi Steve,

 

I'm primarily riding in Sweden, on the tracks Sturup Raceway, Ring Knutstorp, and Anderstorp (a former GP/F1 circuit). For the past two seasons, I've been going to the Eurospeedway Lausitzring during Easter for a Spring training camp. I may go to Most in the Czech Republic for the training camp (organizer has decided to go for Most this time).

 

Most of our tracks are pretty small and technical - Anderstorp is the antithesis to that statement (4025m, average speed of 140kph+).

 

Regards, Kai

[harbih]

Hello all, just signed on.

I have been riding Q2's since they became available and overall quite happy with them (street and track). Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any information concerning their track day use and recommended starting pressures. This would be on a 2006 CBR1000 with stock suspension (set up though) at a level 2 pace. Mostly Auto Club and big Willow. Haven't used warmers yet (doubt they are really that useful with this tire at this pace anyway). Please help with your superior knowledge base. Std size front and 190X55 rear.

 

-Harry

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Hello all, just signed on.

I have been riding Q2's since they became available and overall quite happy with them (street and track). Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any information concerning their track day use and recommended starting pressures. This would be on a 2006 CBR1000 with stock suspension (set up though) at a level 2 pace. Mostly Auto Club and big Willow. Haven't used warmers yet (doubt they are really that useful with this tire at this pace anyway). Please help with your superior knowledge base. Std size front and 190X55 rear.

 

-Harry

 

Harry,

 

You can start with 32 front and 32 rear on those Q2 for the track. You will shortly want to move up to the D211GPA when you get the hang of it.

 

Have a good ride.

[kcarbis]

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for taking the time to write this, it really helps me get an understanding of something that I've struggled with for years.

 

One question though, 33 front 23 rear, is that a typo? In all my years of asking instructors for advice on pressures, I've never had one say 23 in the rear. Seems low to my ignorant mind.

 

Regards,

Kevin

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for taking the time to write this, it really helps me get an understanding of something that I've struggled with for years.

 

One question though, 33 front 23 rear, is that a typo? In all my years of asking instructors for advice on pressures, I've never had one say 23 in the rear. Seems low to my ignorant mind.

 

Regards,

Kevin

 

23 rear hot on the warmers is not a typo. we have been running lower pressures on the N-Tec style construction tire for many years.

 

The D209GPA, D211GPA, D211GP and the current N-Tec slicks all have the N-Tec style construction, which we designed to run with low pressure.

 

These pressures are not recommended for street tires like the Q2, and are only recommended for the Dunlop racing tires mentioned above. that's probably why you have not heard of it.

 

I would ask your tire rep for your area the recommended pressures. Find the guy that sells your brand at your track and ask him. He is the best source for the correct tire pressure since he is the one that must make his product work there. You can always call me and I will help you with Dunlops.

[FredSmoot23]

Always good to learn more about our tires from this forum.

 

My Ducati 900SS is a 1996 model. Does the original recommended tire pressures(30F/34R) still apply? Today's tires are now 14 years more advanced. Curious minds want to know . . .

 

Fred

[1Lun5]

This will be my first year for the track I was wondering what is the proper tire pressure to run in the Dunlop Q2 tires on a R6 for street and track

 

3 tire choices -

D211GPA

D211GP

N-Tec slicks.

 

The D211GPA is the spec tire for the AMA. it is lower cost, $360 per set, and is a great all around tire. The AMA guys are right on the track record with this tire and there is no reason you can go very fast on it. Use the Med front and rear compounds.

 

The D211GP UK N-Tec, this tire will cost you more, about $476 per set, 2010 pricing. It is good for about 0.5 seconds per lap faster than the D211GPA (depending on the track, may be less at some tracks). This tire will last longer than the D211GPA and you will get more competitive laps from this tire. The increased cost is about the same as the increase in laps. Its a toss up if you are looking at the laps/cost issue. you need to try them both to determine on your bike which is the best bang for the buck.

 

The N-Tec Slicks. Top of the line. Nothing available is better, and I mean NOTHING IS BETTER. Cost about $496 per set, 2010 prices. This tire will last longer and grip better, for more laps, than anything available.

 

All these tires are great choices fro track days. You can't go wrong with any of them. I recommend to start at the top and if you like it stay with it. If you desire more as a rider, then step up to the next tire.

 

BTW all these 3 tires have the N-Tec construction, the D211GPA does not use the name N-Tec, but is still the N-tec construction.

 

Beginner group I would stick to the D211GPA and keep it simple. Learn to track ride with lots of laps and lots of classroom.

 

 

Steve,

 

Thank you for all the great info! I have a question concerning the N-Tec Slicks. I've been running the Bridgestone slicks for the past 2 years and while I really like them as far as grip, feel, and wear (to an extent), I keep hearing great things about the Dunlops. I am an advanced rider on an 09 R1. Prior to that I was on an 04 ZX-10R in Italy. I was using the Pirelli's but they wear out way too quickly and just weren't that good compared to the "stones". Any feedback you can give would be appreciated as I'm looking at what to get next, for 2 days at Jennings in March.

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Steve,

 

Thank you for all the great info! I have a question concerning the N-Tec Slicks. I've been running the Bridgestone slicks for the past 2 years and while I really like them as far as grip, feel, and wear (to an extent), I keep hearing great things about the Dunlops. I am an advanced rider on an 09 R1. Prior to that I was on an 04 ZX-10R in Italy. I was using the Pirelli's but they wear out way too quickly and just weren't that good compared to the "stones". Any feedback you can give would be appreciated as I'm looking at what to get next, for 2 days at Jennings in March.

 

Certainly you should try the N-Tec slicks. I'm not going to say anything bad about the competition, but honestly, if you have been hearing good things about the Dunlop line, you deserve the opportunity to try them for yourself?

 

Send me a PM and I will be glad to help you with your options, personally.

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Always good to learn more about our tires from this forum.

 

My Ducati 900SS is a 1996 model. Does the original recommended tire pressures(30F/34R) still apply? Today's tires are now 14 years more advanced. Curious minds want to know . . .

 

Fred

 

tire pressures(30F/34R) are going to be fine for that bike on the street. There is no need to vary from that for that bike.

[gfl61]

Lets look at track day pressures for D209GPA, D211GPA, D211GP N-Tec and N-Tec Slicks. BTW: all of these have N-Tec construction.

 

The recommended Hot is 33 front and 23 rear. That is hot off the warmers. Don't change or reset them. You are done. That's it. That's all you need to know! Go ride. Ride all day.

 

Does anyone have specific tire combinations they want PRESSURE advice on?

 

 

 

I do, Dunlop 208GP-A in 120/70 and 180/55 on a Ducati 748. Intermediate level track day rider.

Why are the N-TEC rears run at such a low pressure?

 

Thanks

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Lets look at track day pressures for D209GPA, D211GPA, D211GP N-Tec and N-Tec Slicks. BTW: all of these have N-Tec construction.

 

The recommended Hot is 33 front and 23 rear. That is hot off the warmers. Don't change or reset them. You are done. That's it. That's all you need to know! Go ride. Ride all day.

 

Does anyone have specific tire combinations they want PRESSURE advice on?

 

 

 

I do, Dunlop 208GP-A in 120/70 and 180/55 on a Ducati 748. Intermediate level track day rider.

Why are the N-TEC rears run at such a low pressure?

 

Thanks

 

31 front, 28 Rear for the D208GPA.

 

D208GPA is a bit of an older tire. consider getting a new tire.

 

The N-Tec rears are run at low pressure because they were designed to run that way. They provide much more traction, while still being stable. You cannot run just any tire at low pressure without it becoming unstable. The construction must be designed for that purpose. http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2536&view=findpost&p=20743

[gfl61]

Thanks again Steve.

 

One more question, what causes the tire surface to turn blue and is it detrimental to the tire's performance?

[rugbydawg13]

Hello all, just signed on.

I have been riding Q2's since they became available and overall quite happy with them (street and track). Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any information concerning their track day use and recommended starting pressures. This would be on a 2006 CBR1000 with stock suspension (set up though) at a level 2 pace. Mostly Auto Club and big Willow. Haven't used warmers yet (doubt they are really that useful with this tire at this pace anyway). Please help with your superior knowledge base. Std size front and 190X55 rear.

 

-Harry

 

Harry,

 

You can start with 32 front and 32 rear on those Q2 for the track. You will shortly want to move up to the D211GPA when you get the hang of it.

 

Have a good ride.

 

What do you recommend for 600s? Specifically I have a 2002 CBR600F4i. I ran the Q2s at VIR with 31f 28r cold (didn't have warmers that day) and didn't have a problem but wasn't sure it that is what you would recommend as the ideal starting point. I'm currently a decent Beginner group/slower Intermediate group rider. Thanks for the advice.

[faffi]

This video could give you a reason to not buy Michelin - according to the expert on record, the Michelins are sensitive to 0.5 PSI

 

 

Lots of stuff to be read from the black, round rim protectors of ours, apparently - I think all following this tire thread would find it interesting.

[Roy]

Steve, how about baseline pressures for the following:

 

2002 Suzuki SV650 naked bike (first generation; aftermarket suspension)

Michelin Pilot Power street tires- 120/60 and 160/60 stock sizes

180 lb. rider (without gear)

rider has 40 track days including 10 CSS days

 

Recommended cold pressure for:

 

1. trackday (Level 4 CSS day) at VIR or NJMP?

2. spirited backroads riding in West Virginia?

3. commuting?

 

I am moving down from a Honda 600RR to this lightweight twin and with the different tire sizes, I don't know where to start. Plus I have always ridden Dunlop Qualifiers and the Q2's, so Michelin is new to me.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

-Roy

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Steve, how about baseline pressures for the following:

 

2002 Suzuki SV650 naked bike (first generation; aftermarket suspension)

Michelin Pilot Power street tires- 120/60 and 160/60 stock sizes

180 lb. rider (without gear)

rider has 40 track days including 10 CSS days

 

Recommended cold pressure for:

 

1. trackday (Level 4 CSS day) at VIR or NJMP?

2. spirited backroads riding in West Virginia?

3. commuting?

 

I am moving down from a Honda 600RR to this lightweight twin and with the different tire sizes, I don't know where to start. Plus I have always ridden Dunlop Qualifiers and the Q2's, so Michelin is new to me.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

-Roy

 

Roy,

 

I don't work with the Michelins so I can't give you advice on those. I am Dunlop guy exclusively. Ask you local Michelin guy for those pressures.

 

Question: IF you used Q2 in the past with success, why would you switch and then further switch to a street only tire? Reconsider and put a set of Q2 or even better some full race Dunlop DOT's on that SV650. You have lots of track time under your belt, why cut corners now. If you were a rookie and it was you first or second track day I could see starting with the bottom of the list, but not with your track experience.

[movistar]

A lot of new sports bikes seem to have quite high pressure recommendations (36psi front/42psi rear, cold).

 

Are these pressures to cater for all riding conditions (from just a rider, to being fully loaded with a passenger) to allow for a 'multi' one pressure does all approach?

 

If so, is there a more specific pressure reading for a bike with a rider only?

 

(Suzuki GSXR750 K7)

 

Cheers,

Paul

[DUNLOP-RTS]

A lot of new sports bikes seem to have quite high pressure recommendations (36psi front/42psi rear, cold).

 

Are these pressures to cater for all riding conditions (from just a rider, to being fully loaded with a passenger) to allow for a 'multi' one pressure does all approach?

 

If so, is there a more specific pressure reading for a bike with a rider only?

 

(Suzuki GSXR750 K7)

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Note this posting: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20465

 

With special attention to #3.

 

The recommended pressures in the owners manual is what the manufacture will stick to when asked what is the correct pressure. (remember the Ford Explorer tire issue with tires overheating, tread separation and then it would crash or rollover? Firestone claimed 34 PSI was better and Ford claiming 32 psi.) If they vary from that recommendation, it opens a can of worms (lawyers) and we hate worms.

 

You are not going to get a "RECOMMENDATION" from anyone official, differing from the owners manual.

 

I wish it were different, but we live in a litigious world.

 

Just use your head. Check the above post, with attention to #3. Consider your weight, and you make a judgment call. IF you want to be 110% safe, always ride the speed limit and have no issues, then do what the manual tells you to do. But if you want to push the envelope, maybe break a speed law by 1-2 MPH, then you can try to vary your settings to fit your riding style.

 

I am tap dancing here, so can you read between the line?

 

If you have a race track pressure recommendation I would be glad to answer that official, but I must stay away from the street pressure variations.

[movistar]

I understand and respect your comments.

 

So for Dunlop Q2's for track day use, what would I aim for regarding cold pressures? (say for a 'B' group rider)

 

And in regards to #3 in the above post, what do you think would be a workable window? (for the track)

[DUNLOP-RTS]

I understand and respect your comments.

 

So for Dunlop Q2's for track day use, what would I aim for regarding cold pressures? (say for a 'B' group rider)

 

And in regards to #3 in the above post, what do you think would be a workable window? (for the track)

 

For Track Day use. 32 front, 32 rear cold. +/- 3 psi would be the workable window. That is a good baseline to go with. If you are trying to get better performance, consider going to the next step up in tires (D211GPA). There is only about 5% to be gained with pressure on the Q2 within that window (nothing to be gained outside that window). You will get much more than a 5% gain if you go to the next higher performance tire in the lineup.

[richinio]

Interesting thread....

 

I've only been riding sports bikes for about 2 years and until recently have always stuck with the standard 36/42 psi. I've been building up my confidence, skills and speed so up until recently tyre pressures (other than standard) have not been an issue really.

 

I did a track day on my new Fireblade in October last year and dropped my pressures to 32/32 on the advice of my instructor for the day. I must say I liked the way the bike felt after the change. At the end of the day I pumped my tyres back up to 36/42 and my instructor asked my why, "if I liked the 32/32 why change back?". I didn't really have an answer except that Honda must have good reason to recommend the pressures they do.

 

I changed my tyres to Qualifier II's a couple of weeks ago and I've decided to plump for 34/36 for now. Mainly because many people seem to like that for the roads (looking at internet forums) and its sort of half way between 32/32 and 36/42.

 

My question for DUNLOP-RTS is....

 

The point #3 you refer to in another post suggests that lowering pressure increases traction at the expense of stability. What would a loss of stability due to lower pressures feel like and when would it occur (corners, high speed, braking...)? I did some serious cornering and 140 mph on the (not very long) main straight on my track day with 32/32 and don't think I experienced any instability.

 

I appreciate your need for caution when talking about street pressures, so any subtle hints would be appreciated!

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Interesting thread....

 

I've only been riding sports bikes for about 2 years and until recently have always stuck with the standard 36/42 psi. I've been building up my confidence, skills and speed so up until recently tyre pressures (other than standard) have not been an issue really.

 

I did a track day on my new Fireblade in October last year and dropped my pressures to 32/32 on the advice of my instructor for the day. I must say I liked the way the bike felt after the change. At the end of the day I pumped my tyres back up to 36/42 and my instructor asked my why, "if I liked the 32/32 why change back?". I didn't really have an answer except that Honda must have good reason to recommend the pressures they do.

 

I changed my tyres to Qualifier II's a couple of weeks ago and I've decided to plump for 34/36 for now. Mainly because many people seem to like that for the roads (looking at internet forums) and its sort of half way between 32/32 and 36/42.

 

My question for DUNLOP-RTS is....

 

The point #3 you refer to in another post suggests that lowering pressure increases traction at the expense of stability. What would a loss of stability due to lower pressures feel like and when would it occur (corners, high speed, braking...)? I did some serious cornering and 140 mph on the (not very long) main straight on my track day with 32/32 and don't think I experienced any instability.

 

I appreciate your need for caution when talking about street pressures, so any subtle hints would be appreciated!

 

Stability on the track:

 

In the front, less stability would feel like: Not steering as quick. Sluggish steering. Hard to change line when leaned or straight line. Front pushes and wants to stand up and not stay leaned over.

 

In the Rear, Less stability would feel like: wallowing when leaned over. Feeling loose in the rear. When accelerating the rear end wags back and forth.

 

WARNING: Don't go making big drops in pressure to get more traction for the sake of more traction alone. If you are not sliding, then you don't need more traction. If you are on the track, always take the advice of your tire guy on pressures. Don't go more than 2 psi +/- from that recommendation. Slower riders might not feel a loss of stability, so in that case don't keep lowering the pressure thinking all is well and there is no stability problem. There is, you just can't feel it. So take all this inline with your lap times and speed. If you are slow, you do not need to be adjusting pressure from the recommended. Only start playing with pressure when the real need exists and you are going very fast.

 

A rookie would read #3 and start lowing his pressure, eventually ending up with 5 psi and thinking he has more grip than a MotoGP rider. He would shortly after find himself on his head (same head he did not use while adjusting tire pressure) and wonder where he went wrong. The problem being he took #3 too literally and was not going fast enough to even make proper judgment of his riding.

[bradvanhorn]

Wow, this is really great information.

 

I recently bought a 2005 GSXR 750 which was salvaged and rebuilt as a track bike, so it will not be street legal and I can run whatever tires make sense for track days. I am pretty slow and I don't plan to race (I suppose that could change), so I'm mostly interested in finding tires which will give reasonable grip and wear for track day adventures. Although I have ambitions to ride more often, I will guess that for the time being I probably won't get in more than 5-6 track days in a riding season. I was planning on getting Q2's when I next replace the tires, and mainly because they have good rep, don't require tire warmers, and they are lower price, but I'm wondering if one of the race tires would be a better choice since I don't have to worry about street use. I'm not rich by any means, but I can afford any of the tires mentioned, provided they don't wear out too quickly, and I could get tire warmers if that was a necessity for use of race-only vs. Q2's. So now that I've qualified my usage, I have two questions:

 

- Which tire is likely to give me the best combination of grip and wear for the amount I'd spend?

 

- (not to create a controversy, but...) If I wanted one of the race-only tires, where is a good place to buy them?

 

 

Thanks!

Brad

[ozfireblade]

Wow, this is really great information.

 

I recently bought a 2005 GSXR 750 which was salvaged and rebuilt as a track bike, so it will not be street legal and I can run whatever tires make sense for track days. I am pretty slow and I don't plan to race (I suppose that could change), so I'm mostly interested in finding tires which will give reasonable grip and wear for track day adventures. Although I have ambitions to ride more often, I will guess that for the time being I probably won't get in more than 5-6 track days in a riding season. I was planning on getting Q2's when I next replace the tires, and mainly because they have good rep, don't require tire warmers, and they are lower price, but I'm wondering if one of the race tires would be a better choice since I don't have to worry about street use. I'm not rich by any means, but I can afford any of the tires mentioned, provided they don't wear out too quickly, and I could get tire warmers if that was a necessity for use of race-only vs. Q2's. So now that I've qualified my usage, I have two questions:

 

- Which tire is likely to give me the best combination of grip and wear for the amount I'd spend?

 

- (not to create a controversy, but...) If I wanted one of the race-only tires, where is a good place to buy them?

 

 

Thanks!

Brad

 

 

Q2's are awesome. Use warmers it saves warming up tyres and wasting your sessions 2 laps warm up 6 sessions thats 12 laps wasted

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Wow, this is really great information.

 

I recently bought a 2005 GSXR 750 which was salvaged and rebuilt as a track bike, so it will not be street legal and I can run whatever tires make sense for track days. I am pretty slow and I don't plan to race (I suppose that could change), so I'm mostly interested in finding tires which will give reasonable grip and wear for track day adventures. Although I have ambitions to ride more often, I will guess that for the time being I probably won't get in more than 5-6 track days in a riding season. I was planning on getting Q2's when I next replace the tires, and mainly because they have good rep, don't require tire warmers, and they are lower price, but I'm wondering if one of the race tires would be a better choice since I don't have to worry about street use. I'm not rich by any means, but I can afford any of the tires mentioned, provided they don't wear out too quickly, and I could get tire warmers if that was a necessity for use of race-only vs. Q2's. So now that I've qualified my usage, I have two questions:

 

- Which tire is likely to give me the best combination of grip and wear for the amount I'd spend?

 

- (not to create a controversy, but...) If I wanted one of the race-only tires, where is a good place to buy them?

 

 

Thanks!

Brad

 

 

Brad,

 

Go here to see the list of Dunlop tires suitable for track day use:

http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491

 

Go here to find a distributor in your area:

http://forums.superb...indpost&p=21098

 

Go here to find data on using warmers:

http://www.dunloprac...com/Warmers.pdf

 

Note: I noticed you mentioned "I was planning on getting Q2's.... mainly because they have good rep, don't require tire warmers", I don't know where you got the idea that Q2 does not need warmers and other tires do. All the warmers do is give you the opportunity to go fast on the fist 2 laps, instead of taking 2 warm-up laps. All the warmer does is put heat in the tire so you don't have to on the first 2 warm-up laps.

 

You can run a racing tire on a track day without warmers with no problems, as long as you take 2 laps to warm it up before you get going fast.

 

Steve