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What Is The Right Pressure?

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Thank you for those comments Steve, and the specific note on tire warmers clarified that misconception for me.

 

I do still wonder if it makes sense to pick a higher grade track tire, and my question about grip vs. wear vs. cost still lingers. More specifically your comment about the N-Tec tire caught my attention, "This tire will last longer and grip better, for more laps, than anything available." I explained it to my wife like so, "if 211GPA's cost $360 a set and would last me 6 track days, and if N-Tec's cost $496 per set and would last me 8 track days, then the question of cost is probably irrelevent, since they come out more or less equal over time."

 

Given my riding ability (slow, beginner), and my expectation of doing a lower number of track days (probably 5 or less this year) I assume I won't burn up tires at a rapid rate (this could be a false assumption). However, I've never had to consider tires in this way, so I have no personal data to use for tire life comparison. I guess my question can be rephrased: can you make a rough guess for the Q2 vs. 211GPA vs. N-Tec as to cost vs. # of track days for the life of the tire? (Perhaps it is easier to pick winning lottery numbers...)

 

I do a fair amount of data analysis as part of my real job, so yes, I am probably over analyzing the tire question :) . On the other hand, this info could make my life much easier when I have to ask my wife to pay the bill on an expensive set of new tires :D .

 

Thanks!

Brad

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Steve,

I may be thread jacking here, but could you touch upon Heat Cycles? This is something that keeps me awake at night....:blink: I Understand the concept, when using Tire warmers consistently throughout the day, then we can assume that the tires have had only one heat cycle. But for someone who is not running tire warmers, the Heat Cycle is counted pretty much at the end of each session as the tire cools before the next session begins.

What does this do to the tire Life? How many cycles, or better yet how many track days can be had from a set of tires?

In my case, Intermidiate running Q2 on an R6

 

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread......:unsure:

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Steve,

I may be thread jacking here, but could you touch upon Heat Cycles? This is something that keeps me awake at night....:blink: I Understand the concept, when using Tire warmers consistently throughout the day, then we can assume that the tires have had only one heat cycle. But for someone who is not running tire warmers, the Heat Cycle is counted pretty much at the end of each session as the tire cools before the next session begins.

What does this do to the tire Life? How many cycles, or better yet how many track days can be had from a set of tires?

In my case, Intermidiate running Q2 on an R6

 

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread......:unsure:

 

Max,

 

Take a look at this thread, it will answer you question:

http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20724

 

The internet has got up at night for no reason. Read the thread and sleep well at night.

 

Steve

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To: Dunlop Answer Man

 

Just bought 2 sets of Q2s for my 848. size 120 front and 180 rear.

You are recommending 32psi(cold) for front and rear for track days ? How about Street ?

 

Also GP211 rears are only 190s, nothing in 180s ?

 

Thx!

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

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To: Dunlop Answer Man

 

Just bought 2 sets of Q2s for my 848. size 120 front and 180 rear.

You are recommending 32psi(cold) for front and rear for track days ? How about Street ? (Cynon riding)

 

Also GP211 rears are only 190s, nothing in 180s ?

 

Thx!

 

Q2, yes 32 cold front and rear for the racetrack. Street pressure, run what the owners manual recommends.

 

D211GP or D211GPA, the 190/55 is designed for a 5.5 rim and is what all the AMA and club guys use when racing on your bike (848). don't be concerned, its the right size for your bike when using the D211GP or D211GPA. Dunlop does not make a 180/55 in the D211GP or D211GPA, there is no need to when all the development is directed at the 190/55 and it works better.

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

 

Hot pressures are generally 2 psi more than cold.

 

But I must note: Q2 and warmers? that sounds like you are ready to move up to the D211GPA. ;)

 

I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

Come attend.

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

 

Hot pressures are generally 2 psi more than cold.

 

But I must note: Q2 and warmers? that sounds like you are ready to move up to the D211GPA. ;)

 

I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

Come attend.

 

any chance of recording this and posting the video for the rest of US... would love to hear what you have to say...

friend of mine is running 211s and loving it...He said that 211s need to heat up so not a good idea for the street riding...

can you expand on the "Q2 and warmers?" comment...

 

also D211GPA soft or medium ? I mean I can't afford to change them out for different tracks...will also be doing some street...

tracks I go to: Fontana, Willow springs, buttonwillow and chuckwalla...

 

also I hear that 211s can be flipped ?

 

thx!

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I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

any chance of recording this and posting the video for the rest of US... would love to hear what you have to say...

 

Yeah! :) If all else fails, ask Tom (fellow Nesbian rider that will be there) to go get the camera off his Kawasaki!

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

 

Hot pressures are generally 2 psi more than cold.

 

But I must note: Q2 and warmers? that sounds like you are ready to move up to the D211GPA. ;)

 

I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

Come attend.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

I have been running the Q2, (190/50) with warmers for the last 3 track sessions, and have been running them hot @ 35psi, and after reading your post above I guess they should have been between 30-32 hot? Would this may have lead to me feeling like my bike was 'unstable' really touchy and like I'm riding on glass. Not sure if thats a good description :)

 

 

Dylan

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

 

Hot pressures are generally 2 psi more than cold.

 

But I must note: Q2 and warmers? that sounds like you are ready to move up to the D211GPA. ;)

 

I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

Come attend.

 

Excellent. I'll absolutely be there. Will this be during the 10am-12pm quiet time Sunday? I can't imagine NESBA running a separate lunch hour in addition to that.

 

And yes, I'll be moving up to track-only/race tires soon. The bike pulls double duty as a street/track bike and was just trying limit my tire changes until the warmer weather hits. I've actually got a couple sets of Supercorsa take-offs from WERA friend of mine that I was going to use up but will likely switch the D209 or 211 soon, as I've gotten really good feedback from some friends that run in A group. Plus, the knowledge and set-up support we get from yourself and NESBA is a big bonus. Thanks and see you Sunday.

 

Cliff

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

 

Hot pressures are generally 2 psi more than cold.

 

But I must note: Q2 and warmers? that sounds like you are ready to move up to the D211GPA. ;)

 

I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

Come attend.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

I have been running the Q2, (190/50) with warmers for the last 3 track sessions, and have been running them hot @ 35psi, and after reading your post above I guess they should have been between 30-32 hot? Would this may have lead to me feeling like my bike was 'unstable' really touchy and like I'm riding on glass. Not sure if thats a good description :)

 

 

Dylan

Not following you on this one. He said 32 cold front and rear but that on-the-warmer temps are generally 2 psi more. So, that would be 34 psi F&R on the warmers. Pretty close to the 35 you're running. Based on his comments, I was going to try 34 F&R on the warmers. Interested to see the reply to this.

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What are the starting on-the-warmers pressures for Q2s on a CBR600F4i? You've given pretty good answers on cold pressures for track and they've served me well. I'm starting to use warmers now and like that it gives a fixed point to work from but I'm not sure what that fixed point is. I'll be running Road Atlanta this weekend and VIR in June if that helps. Thanks for all the good info.

 

Hot pressures are generally 2 psi more than cold.

 

But I must note: Q2 and warmers? that sounds like you are ready to move up to the D211GPA. ;)

 

I will be lecturing at the NESBA event at Road Atlanta this weekend April 23-24. Both Saturday and Sunday at lunch. Come sit in on the lecture, there is a lot to be learned. We also like to bust tire myths and urban legends.

 

Come attend.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

I have been running the Q2, (190/50) with warmers for the last 3 track sessions, and have been running them hot @ 35psi, and after reading your post above I guess they should have been between 30-32 hot? Would this may have lead to me feeling like my bike was 'unstable' really touchy and like I'm riding on glass. Not sure if thats a good description :)

 

 

Dylan

Not following you on this one. He said 32 cold front and rear but that on-the-warmer temps are generally 2 psi more. So, that would be 34 psi F&R on the warmers. Pretty close to the 35 you're running. Based on his comments, I was going to try 34 F&R on the warmers. Interested to see the reply to this.

 

 

I assumed he was talking to the bloke who doesnt use warmers? If I'm running 35 hot of the warmers wouldnt I get more PSI from being on track? In my last trackday session I did drop the pressure, on the rear, from 35 to 31 of the warmer and it felt heaps better. Just thinking I should've done the same on the front too. I will be going to the 211 soon not much left on the Q2's. I'm also going to change to a 190/55 rather than the 190/50 as this would provide a bigger contact patch when leaned over at speed.

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This helps me out, thanks!

S1000RR on Q2

-Jude

 

Hello all, just signed on.

I have been riding Q2's since they became available and overall quite happy with them (street and track). Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any information concerning their track day use and recommended starting pressures. This would be on a 2006 CBR1000 with stock suspension (set up though) at a level 2 pace. Mostly Auto Club and big Willow. Haven't used warmers yet (doubt they are really that useful with this tire at this pace anyway). Please help with your superior knowledge base. Std size front and 190X55 rear.

 

-Harry

 

Harry,

 

You can start with 32 front and 32 rear on those Q2 for the track. You will shortly want to move up to the D211GPA when you get the hang of it.

 

Have a good ride.

 

 

 

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Hello Steve.

Wow, how fortunate are we to have you here?

 

Can you tackle one of the 'urban myths' that we've probably all heard: that to heat the tyre up and raise the pressure you actually need to take air out, which allows the rubber to flex and heat, resulting in higher pressures.

If there's truth to this, can you clarify when it's applicable?

It's a frequent debate during very cold days; should riders change pressures, and if so is this done by adding a little air or removing some?

 

Thanks, Julian.

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Brilliant write up! I'll be using that info to help set my pressures on my Blackbird at Cadwell Park. It's fitted with Diablo Corsas and standard is 42 front and rear.

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I have been running the Q2, (190/50) with warmers for the last 3 track sessions, and have been running them hot @ 35psi, and after reading your post above I guess they should have been between 30-32 hot? Would this may have lead to me feeling like my bike was 'unstable' really touchy and like I'm riding on glass. Not sure if thats a good description :)

 

 

Dylan

 

Ok, your PSI was a little off. Not the end of the world.

 

I think you biggest issue is the tire size. The 190/50 is not nearly as good as the 190/55 for track stability and performance.

 

Switch to the 190/55 and the bike will handle much better.

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A great thread with some useful info - thanks.

 

I've just bought a 2011 R1 with D210 tyres fitted. At the track I run at F30 R32 cold. I also use warmers. I've had no great issues with the tyres so far but I can feel them move/spin up as I become more agrressive with the bike. I also see that the tyres look to be wearing quite quickly. They look and feel quite a bit hotter than brands I have used previously when I come off the track. I know these are street tyres but I'm now cautious that I'm running close to the limit with these tyres... (whether that is true or not I am not sure. )

 

Should I go for the D211GPA as a next stage up and to give me confidence to push that bit harder ? - Thanks

 

rolleyes.gif

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A great thread with some useful info - thanks.

 

I've just bought a 2011 R1 with D210 tyres fitted. At the track I run at F30 R32 cold. I also use warmers. I've had no great issues with the tyres so far but I can feel them move/spin up as I become more agrressive with the bike. I also see that the tyres look to be wearing quite quickly. They look and feel quite a bit hotter than brands I have used previously when I come off the track. I know these are street tyres but I'm now cautious that I'm running close to the limit with these tyres... (whether that is true or not I am not sure. )

 

Should I go for the D211GPA as a next stage up and to give me confidence to push that bit harder ? - Thanks

 

rolleyes.gif

 

YES! Your next step is the D211GPA.

 

I believe the tire you have (D210) is the stock OEM tire?

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Hello Steve.

Wow, how fortunate are we to have you here?

 

Can you tackle one of the 'urban myths' that we've probably all heard: that to heat the tyre up and raise the pressure you actually need to take air out, which allows the rubber to flex and heat, resulting in higher pressures.

If there's truth to this, can you clarify when it's applicable?

It's a frequent debate during very cold days; should riders change pressures, and if so is this done by adding a little air or removing some?

 

Thanks, Julian.

 

Good question.

 

Lets start with facts:

 

* YES lowering the PSI will result in higher temps, but not much more than 10 deg F

* The increase in temp is not enough to make a cold slick track magically give great grip.

* 1 second in faster lap time can equal 10 def F in temperature increase (depending on the track)

* Decrease in PSI will affect the handling and stability of the tire and thus the setup.

 

 

So you must ask yourself: If lowering the PSI gives more temperature and more grip, then why don't I run lower PSI all the time? (this question alone busts the myth right away)

 

I have observed riders lowering their PSI on cold days. I think it helps them mentally feel OK about their next session. I do not think its a major factor and is commonly very much over emphasized. If I saw someone doing it, I would not scold them. But I would not go out of my way to recommend it, and I certainly would not emphasis it as a solution to a cold track.

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Hello,

 

I just started using Dunlop Sportmax Q2's. I love these tires. My last track day I used 30 / 28psi Cold. My rear tire is showing a lot of wear for just one track day. Maybe my rear pressure was a little low. Anyway, I just got some Chicken Hawk Racing Standard Tire Warmers, so the temperature is set to 175 deg. F. Could you give me a "Hot of the Warmers" pressure recommendation for these tires?

 

Thanks,

Luis.

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Hello,

 

I just started using Dunlop Sportmax Q2's. I love these tires. My last track day I used 30 / 28psi Cold. My rear tire is showing a lot of wear for just one track day. Maybe my rear pressure was a little low. Anyway, I just got some Chicken Hawk Racing Standard Tire Warmers, so the temperature is set to 175 deg. F. Could you give me a "Hot of the Warmers" pressure recommendation for these tires?

 

Thanks,

Luis.

 

Q2, 32 front, 32 rear cold. which would be 34 front, 34 rear hot off the warmers.

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Q2, 32 front, 32 rear cold. which would be 34 front, 34 rear cold.

 

Did you mean 34 front, 34 rear hot? Just want to clarify.

 

The answer to that must be a yes, looking at Steve's info in post #2:

 

Generally, you will see 2 psi rise from cold to hot off the warmers.

 

 

Kai

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Hello Steve.

Wow, how fortunate are we to have you here?

 

Can you tackle one of the 'urban myths' that we've probably all heard: that to heat the tyre up and raise the pressure you actually need to take air out, which allows the rubber to flex and heat, resulting in higher pressures.

If there's truth to this, can you clarify when it's applicable?

It's a frequent debate during very cold days; should riders change pressures, and if so is this done by adding a little air or removing some?

 

Thanks, Julian.

 

Good question.

 

Lets start with facts:

 

* YES lowering the PSI will result in higher temps, but not much more than 10 deg F

* The increase in temp is not enough to make a cold slick track magically give great grip.

* 1 second in faster lap time can equal 10 def F in temperature increase (depending on the track)

* Decrease in PSI will affect the handling and stability of the tire and thus the setup.

 

 

So you must ask yourself: If lowering the PSI gives more temperature and more grip, then why don't I run lower PSI all the time? (this question alone busts the myth right away)

 

I have observed riders lowering their PSI on cold days. I think it helps them mentally feel OK about their next session. I do not think its a major factor and is commonly very much over emphasized. If I saw someone doing it, I would not scold them. But I would not go out of my way to recommend it, and I certainly would not emphasis it as a solution to a cold track.

 

Thanks, makes sense.

Can I ask you one more question re wet riding? Another mith says that it's a good idea to put more air in the tyres, in an effort to keep the grooves open. The opposite being that with low air pressures (and considering that temps and pressures won't rise from riding) the 'flat spot' in contact with the track closes the grooves in the tyres. What are your thoughts on this? I can understand the logic - is there any evidence to suggest that it could be happening?

Thanks again,

Julian.

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