2 Step

[bond_yzf]

Ok guys currently working on my two-step technique on track/road,now I know the process of the two-step but reading through twot2 I just can't get the whole "opens up turn space" theory correct in my head ?

 

Now I'm not one for fancy words so if anyone could explain this in a laymans way that would be great !

 

Cheers jim

[bond_yzf]

Sorry guys having a 9mnth old son who doesn't sleep doesn't do your brain power much good lol

 

So technically speaking it "opens up turn entry space" because you have Your turn point in priferial (spelling was never a strong point) vision and you can see your mid turn point before entering the turn thus allowing you to have that scope of vision between those two points ?

[Crash106]

As I understand it, the Two Step does two things: Tricks your mind into moving your vision further into the turn than you may have done before, and helps you become comfortable enough in that space to ride the bike in to that point, then relax and turn the bike. It "opens up the space" only because you have looked ahead and know where you want to turn and where you want to go after you turn.

 

I use the two step as reference point to get off the brakes, relax my arms, look in and turn. When you start to get it, this technique can solve a whole lot of problems.

 

Just don't let your eyes linger, focus to long on, or get stuck on that turn entry point. See it and forget it. Let it go, grasshopper. "It is only a finger pointing at the moon." Let your head and eyes look ahead to the apex and the exit.

 

How would it feel if you never rode faster than you could comfortably see?

[johnnyrod]

My understanding is that it's a way of making you use the reference points and look up (as Crash says). Look for your first RP (say, turn in point), make use of it, then look for the second RP when you don't need the first one any more. That's pretty much how it's taught and that's what the basic aim is. Without the 2-step to emphasise the different parts you might not have more than one RP (or any), or you can hang on to the first one for too long and lose your way to the second one. It carries on to "wide view" in level 2, and also the 3-step, all about vision, the more you can see the more track you've got to ride on and that's always a good thing.

 

Not sure how good an explanation this is (this sort of thing is harder to get than the physical stuff) but the key really is the timing, drop the first RP at the right time, everything else slots into place then.

[marc-f]

My own learning curve at LVL2 on the 2&3 step was that I started feeling I got it when I started turning the bike while looking elsewhere (at the apex very precisely).

 

In fact: I see the turn in point, then it goes to peripheral vision while I am still approaching it (maybe a couple of bike lengths) and looking for the apex point, at that time I start quick turning the bike (well can be quicker still, that still needs practice). To follow suit, I'm then looking for the exit point (before I get to the Apex).

 

Turning the bike when looking elsewhere is a great feeling and kind of a breakthrough to have a lot more time to look for the next RPs and event analyze your own doing while in the turn.

 

I guess everyone just feels it a bit differently.

[Steve Rutter]

My own learning curve at LVL2 on the 2&3 step was that I started feeling I got it when I started turning the bike while looking elsewhere (at the apex very precisely).

 

In fact: I see the turn in point, then it goes to peripheral vision while I am still approaching it (maybe a couple of bike lengths) and looking for the apex point, at that time I start quick turning the bike (well can be quicker still, that still needs practice). To follow suit, I'm then looking for the exit point (before I get to the Apex).

 

Turning the bike when looking elsewhere is a great feeling and kind of a breakthrough to have a lot more time to look for the next RPs and event analyze your own doing while in the turn.

 

I guess everyone just feels it a bit differently.

 

I think that could be confused with turning at the wrong point though, I understand what you mean, but reading that back it seems like once you start looking for your apex, you start turning. You still want to time your quick-turn with the point you hit your turn-point, hence keeping it in your peripheral vision.

 

Part of the trouble a lot of people have is that they'll look in without keeping a track of the turn point, then the bike starts to wander in to the turn too early, the bike tends to go where you look after all.

 

[marc-f]

 

 

I think that could be confused with turning at the wrong point though, I understand what you mean, but reading that back it seems like once you start looking for your apex, you start turning. You still want to time your quick-turn with the point you hit your turn-point, hence keeping it in your peripheral vision.

 

Part of the trouble a lot of people have is that they'll look in without keeping a track of the turn point, then the bike starts to wander in to the turn too early, the bike tends to go where you look after all.

 

 

Good point, thanks for highlighting it. That is exactly what I mean by initiating a turn when looking elsewhere (that actually means "not turning in when you shift the looking to the second RP). Keeping the turn in point in peripheral is the best way, but on some hairpin corners where the apex is kind of backwards from your position, you can't so I will rely on some kind of timing but it usually takes me quite some laps to get the timing right :-)

[bond_yzf]

When you say "timing" would it not be better to use another "rp" to link you to your apex in that sort of turn

[marc-f]

When you say "timing" would it not be better to use another "rp" to link you to your apex in that sort of turn

 

Yes indeed that works too.

 

 

 

[Jaybird180]

 

I think that could be confused with turning at the wrong point though, I understand what you mean, but reading that back it seems like once you start looking for your apex, you start turning. You still want to time your quick-turn with the point you hit your turn-point, hence keeping it in your peripheral vision.

 

Part of the trouble a lot of people have is that they'll look in without keeping a track of the turn point, then the bike starts to wander in to the turn too early, the bike tends to go where you look after all.

 

 

Actually, this is a myth. If it were true, it would apply to everything we do. We couldn't walk straight down the sidewalk without watching the stores, nor could we drive a car without seeing what's beside us.

 

The problem is one of unplanned steering inputs. I said unplanned, but not unintentional. This is a riding error.

 

What would happen, if you could steer only where you plan the exact amount you planned and other times maintain your intended course until you decide to change it?

[Steve Rutter]

I think that could be confused with turning at the wrong point though, I understand what you mean, but reading that back it seems like once you start looking for your apex, you start turning. You still want to time your quick-turn with the point you hit your turn-point, hence keeping it in your peripheral vision.

 

Part of the trouble a lot of people have is that they'll look in without keeping a track of the turn point, then the bike starts to wander in to the turn too early, the bike tends to go where you look after all.

 

 

Actually, this is a myth. If it were true, it would apply to everything we do. We couldn't walk straight down the sidewalk without watching the stores, nor could we drive a car without seeing what's beside us.

 

The problem is one of unplanned steering inputs. I said unplanned, but not unintentional. This is a riding error.

 

What would happen, if you could steer only where you plan the exact amount you planned and other times maintain your intended course until you decide to change it?

 

I'll agree with you, it's something you can unlearn and the 2-step really does help with that, you've set a point you're going to turn in with and until you reach that point, you've instructed yourself not to add any steering input. Without the 2-step you do tend to go where you look though, as you've not decided on anything and your body will just follow your head as it has nothing else to work with.

 

The key word in that sentence was 'tends', as without a plan, your vision will override anything else and any inputs good or bad will be based on what you see. The 2-step has that added benefit of seperating your vision from any inputs on the bike, well for me anyway.

[Jasonzilla]

I think it's a myth to a point. Comfort of pace being the key. When I'm following most riders that I'm helping, even if they're close to my pace, I can watch them and monitor what they're doing. With slower riders, I can wave to my friends who are corner-working. When I'm going for fast lap-times, I'm not veering from my points. The rule holds true at that point. Drifting into a corner is a huge problem for riders learning the two-step. It's because they have to get used to that practice and figure out how to keep the bikes out in order to hit their TP. Because they're going where they're looking.

[bradvanhorn]

I think it's a myth to a point. Comfort of pace being the key. When I'm following most riders that I'm helping, even if they're close to my pace, I can watch them and monitor what they're doing. With slower riders, I can wave to my friends who are corner-working. When I'm going for fast lap-times, I'm not veering from my points. The rule holds true at that point. Drifting into a corner is a huge problem for riders learning the two-step. It's because they have to get used to that practice and figure out how to keep the bikes out in order to hit their TP. Because they're going where they're looking.

I was having similar thought about this being about comfort of pace. When all things are well within the comfort zone then we can change our visual focus and not veer off course. But as Keith has documented, when the brain goes into panic mode you may well fixate and then steer directly to your target.

 

A couple times on Saturday (during a track day) at VIR South I noticed my vision drifting outward in turn 1. Those couple times I can best call it either an extremely lazy 2-step or no 2-step at all (most likely the latter). When that happened my mind immediately registered a "too fast/too wide" alarm. Instead of fixating I found this actually cue'd me to instead get my vision focused further up track (where I should have been looking anyway) and as soon as I changed my focus the alarm was silenced. Despite the simplicity of the action, it was enlightening to feel the brain go from "all is good," to "Houston, we have a problem," to "nope, all is good," and just by changing where I was looking.

[Hotfoot]

 

A couple times on Saturday (during a track day) at VIR South I noticed my vision drifting outward in turn 1. Those couple times I can best call it either an extremely lazy 2-step or no 2-step at all (most likely the latter). When that happened my mind immediately registered a "too fast/too wide" alarm. Instead of fixating I found this actually cue'd me to instead get my vision focused further up track (where I should have been looking anyway) and as soon as I changed my focus the alarm was silenced. Despite the simplicity of the action, it was enlightening to feel the brain go from "all is good," to "Houston, we have a problem," to "nope, all is good," and just by changing where I was looking.

 

 

AWESOME, I laughed reading this because I had almost exactly the same experience - I noticed that EVERY time I felt a desire to reach for the brake lever (especially in a "no brakes" drill), it was because my visual skills had fallen apart. So now whenever I "want" to reach for the brakes anywhere other than a planned braking point, I force myself to push my vision out to a wideview, and I realize my speed is OK after all. It DOES feel good to overcome that barrier, and know you have a way to fix it when your eyes lie to you.

 

Great observation, I really enjoyed your post.