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Keith Code

The Fine Art Of Braking

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The no brake rule is a required part of police driver training. They have to run those old Crown Vics around the twisty track using only "stearing Breaking". This makes them concentrate on entry points and being "smooth", and smooth = speed.

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Cobie Fair    13
The no brake rule is a required part of police driver training. They have to run those old Crown Vics around the twisty track using only "stearing Breaking". This makes them concentrate on entry points and being "smooth", and smooth = speed.

 

Yeah, had a friend that did a lot of training, and the big cars can't take that much braking anyway!

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faffi    12

Just a bit of trivia regarding grip:

 

1) Leaned over 36 degrees you can still brake/accelerate at 85% of what you can do upright

 

2) Grippy race track asphalt can allow up to 1.2 G of braking/acceleration

 

3) Normal asphalt in good condition allows around 0.9 G

 

4) Worn asphalt allows around 0.7 G

 

5) Cobble stones and wet normal asphalt allows about 0.5 G

 

6) Wet dust allows approximately 0.3 G

 

7) Black ice allows only 0,08 G

 

8) To stop from 100 kph, you will - according to the list above - need from 32.8 metres up to 491.3 metres.

 

9) With 0.5 G available, you can lean safely to 27 degrees, 1.2 G allows theoretically 57 degrees.

 

Source: MOTORRAD

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khp    2
Just a bit of trivia regarding grip:

 

2) Grippy race track asphalt can allow up to 1.2 G of braking/acceleration

 

3) Normal asphalt in good condition allows around 0.9 G

 

I'll call a fault on that "trivia" - we have a braking force (deaccelleration) measurement box* and we see just under 1.0G on normal asphalt (heck, we just saw a 'Busa do 10.1m/s^2 on average, which is >1.0G this weekend).

 

*) http://www.bikeview.de/

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

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Cobie Fair    13
Just a bit of trivia regarding grip:

 

2) Grippy race track asphalt can allow up to 1.2 G of braking/acceleration

 

3) Normal asphalt in good condition allows around 0.9 G

 

I'll call a fault on that "trivia" - we have a braking force (deaccelleration) measurement box* and we see just under 1.0G on normal asphalt (heck, we just saw a 'Busa do 10.1m/s^2 on average, which is >1.0G this weekend).

 

*) http://www.bikeview.de/

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

 

Cool to know. I'm assuming the bigger/longer bikes (Busa, ZX-14) have excellent braking numbers/distances, due to longer wheelbase and weight--any data on that, say compared to a 600?

 

CF

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khp    2
Just a bit of trivia regarding grip:

 

2) Grippy race track asphalt can allow up to 1.2 G of braking/acceleration

 

3) Normal asphalt in good condition allows around 0.9 G

 

I'll call a fault on that "trivia" - we have a braking force (deaccelleration) measurement box* and we see just under 1.0G on normal asphalt (heck, we just saw a 'Busa do 10.1m/s^2 on average, which is >1.0G this weekend).

 

*) http://www.bikeview.de/

 

Cool to know. I'm assuming the bigger/longer bikes (Busa, ZX-14) have excellent braking numbers/distances, due to longer wheelbase and weight--any data on that, say compared to a 600?

 

Agree on the longer bikes.

We had another instructor do 10.0 on his BMW K1100RS (with the ABS kicking in, not doing him any favours) and I recall having a student last year who did 10.0 too on his ZX-9R, with his GF as pillion.

 

I've done 9.7-9.8 on my 2003 R1, which should be close enough for a 600cc as things go.

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

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faffi    12

MOTORRAD performs repeated tests at the same venue, which has grippier than normal asphalt. The measure stick is the BMW K1200R Sport with 37 metres from 100 kph, which is around 10.5 m/s2 or well over one G.

 

I agree that the trivia figures seems pessimistic. Most likely, they have erred well on the safe side in order not to get into trouble with readers writing in to complain that "you said I would have X amount of grip and could lean Y degrees, yet I fell down and now I will sue" or something to that effect.

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lwarner    0
MOTORRAD performs repeated tests at the same venue, which has grippier than normal asphalt. The measure stick is the BMW K1200R Sport with 37 metres from 100 kph, which is around 10.5 m/s2 or well over one G.

 

I agree that the trivia figures seems pessimistic. Most likely, they have erred well on the safe side in order not to get into trouble with readers writing in to complain that "you said I would have X amount of grip and could lean Y degrees, yet I fell down and now I will sue" or something to that effect.

 

The numbers are very interesting but I think of it kind of like I think of my speedometer... it's neat but I tape over it because it's really irrelevant when I'm riding and I need to perceive my speed and make decisions without taking time to "crunch numbers".

People always ask "how fast do you go?" and they are always surprised when I'm a bit hazy on the answer. My .02 anyway.

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Cobie Fair    13

And looking down at the speedo or the tach when entering a corner (which some people really do!) not a good plan.

 

CF

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faffi    12

Entering the corner, in the corner, exiting the corner - done it all. Even crashed very heavily because of it. That was back in 1991.

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Thumper748    0

Dear Keith,

I have just joined this forum, read your book 'Twist of the Wrist II' and my riding has improved – thank you for this contribution. I feel smoother and safer.

 

I'm an inexperienced rider and have only ever rode two track days. Both this year.

 

The first track day I was nervous and every survivial reaction you can list came to my mind and effected my riding. Even my level of excitement was a distraction!

 

The second track day, was a great improvement for me. I exercised less braking and gear changing. In fact, one session I planned to just concentrate on being smooth, brake less and not bother going as fast as I could in the straights. It felt dramatically slower, but I was happy with what I was learning by being out on the track at speeds that didn't increase the chance of any survival reactions. When the session was over and I pulled into the pits, to my surprise, I actually recorded consistent lap times that were 3 seconds faster than the previous session, and 7 seconds faster than the times I was lapping on the first track day. Incredible. Now, these better times were still well off the pace of the fast group, but they were quick enough to have me moved up to the intermediate group. So for me, this was a successful exercise.

 

Turn one is a long right hander and by the end of the day I was just slightly holding the throttle to slow the bike down and then gently applying power through the turn – compared to previous times where I was hard braking and even down changing. Spectators said I looked noticeably quicker, even though I felt like it was much slower on the bike. This for me was a good thing!

 

Problem: However, after a long kinked straight there is a very hard right hand hairpin. It's difficult to apply the 'no brakes' exercise without being a bit of a hazzard to riders behind me. Obviously the ultimate goal is to be smoother for the corner and find a line and turn point where I can comfortably power out of the hairpin but I am unsure. What I do know, is I add valuable time on this haripin and it's the one part of the track I feel least confident on.

 

These are what I think could be my issues:

1. Because the the straight is the fastest section of the track and the hairpin is slowest, I feel (panic?) I need to get on the brakes hard just to make the corner and not go off the grey stuff.

2. Because of this, I think I maybe be braking too early, washing off too much speed

3. Once I'm ready to tip in, the bike (and me) feels extremely stiff and hard to turn

 

Keith and any other forum members, do you know why I might be struggling with this hairpin? It's interesting, because I also struggle with similar corners on the road, especially down hill tight turns. Up hill, I never have an issue. I somehow feel these two road and track scenarios are because of a related issue I need to work on?

 

Look forward to your reply.

Thank you.

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Cobie Fair    13

Hi Mr,

 

I'm going to let the Chief Riding Coach for Oz know about your post, have him get back with you.

 

Best,

Cobie

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Adam06    0

Hi Mr,

 

Thanks for a great post. That is a cool realisiation you've had at the track days. For many, the concept of using less brakes and gears to go faster dosen't compute, so definately pat yourself on the back for that!

 

I'm going to assume that the track you're talking about is the Island, and T4 is the slow right hander you're having issues with. Does T10 (MG) give you similar problems? It's the other tight right hander on the track.

 

The easiest way to solve this would be to do level 1. By the end of that day, without a doubt, you'd be armed with the understanding required to work this out for yourself. Sales pitch aside, I'll see if I can shed some light on it for you.

 

When you want the bike to lean over into T4, how do you make it do that? What makes a bike lean over to the right?

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Thumper748    0

The track is actually Mallala. Thank you for your reply, and I am very keen on doing level 1 at Philip Island as soon as I can.

I made an error in my original post which may have confused you 'turn one' is actually a right turn, not left which I've now corrected.

Turn 5 is the right hand hairpin.

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Adam06    0

The track is actually Mallala. Thank you for your reply, and I am very keen on doing level 1 at Philip Island as soon as I can.

I made an error in my original post which may have confused you 'turn one' is actually a right turn, not left which I've now corrected.

Turn 5 is the right hand hairpin.

 

 

Mr,

 

Ok cool. I haven't ridden Mallala, but I recognize the type of turn you've described.

 

That'd be great to get you along for Level 1 at the Island. We have a number of level 1 spots available for the 17th of May. The dates for the second half of the year will be released in the next few weeks, so keep an eye on the website for those.

 

I'd still like to at least get you pointed in the right direction in the meantime.

 

When you want the bike to lean over into T5 at Mallala, how do you make it do it? What do you do to make it steer to the right?

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Thumper748    0

When you want the bike to lean over into T5 at Mallala, how do you make it do it? What do you do to make it steer to the right?

 

This was hard to work out, but now that I think about what i should have been doing, I don't think I was pushing on the inside bar to get bike tipping into the corner. I look froward to re-visiting this track and thinking about my technique and what is required to do things properly and smoothly.

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Cobie Fair    13

When you want the bike to lean over into T5 at Mallala, how do you make it do it? What do you do to make it steer to the right?

 

This was hard to work out, but now that I think about what i should have been doing, I don't think I was pushing on the inside bar to get bike tipping into the corner. I look froward to re-visiting this track and thinking about my technique and what is required to do things properly and smoothly.

 

Mr Slow,

 

One thing we have had guys do is take the left hand off the bar (when the bike is up to a modest speed, 50k) and then just push on the right bar, see what happens.

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abhoy    0

Keith,

 

You mentioned, "...accurate sense of speed opens the door to confidence", my question is what does an accurate sense of speed look like?

Thanks in advance

Frankie C

 

It is "What should it FEEL like" ? When you remove the distrations of braking and downshifting, and just concentrate on feeling your corner entry speed, it becomes quite accurate. Obviously it's safer to start at slower speeds then gradually increase speed.

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wandyhee    0

I always thought entry corner braking is a must before as it's even discovered in your TOTWII video. but after reading this article, I definitely agree and understand more about braking (which you translate as crutch).. will apply this NO BRAKE into my riding habit to improve myself. Thanks a lot :)

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mblaster    0

The no brake drill at school was great except when the squids in front of me were slamming on the brakes in fear and I had to dive on mine to avoid squid squishing.

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Shakespear    0

I just learned about the no brakes drill through Soft Science since I haven't taken a course yet. I have no track near me and I felt the drill eas ot worth the effort to make something up on the street but I'm going to try a low speed version on local roads at daybreak. Hope that doesn't aggravate Keith and coaches. Please let me know.

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Shakespear    0

Keith,

Thanks for all your wisdom. My friends are marveled by the way I've improved and this is just another piece of the puzzle.

Peace out

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EricG    0

I'm glad I came across this thread! Personally, I don't use the brakes alot, relying more on throttle control than anything else. Which is why I get over 50,000 miles on my car without neededing brake shoes. Funny thing is, based on the other articles I've read on braking and downshifting before the turns, I've actually been trying to teach myself to do that, as counter intuitive as it may seem.

 

Maybe I'm taking the hard engine braking endemic to my K1300s as a crutch in its own right, and that other sport bikes my not decelerate as quickly without braking, but i's the way I was taught to road race cars 30 yrs ago, and it's the way I drive to this day.

 

Never been to a track, so I'm looking forward to the Level 1 class at Tunderbolt on 8/26 to see if I can indeed do this "when it counts" and see if I'm doing things right.

 

Mr. Code, your articles, book and Video have already changed my riding for the better. My confidence is increasing every time I ride. I no longer get that tightness in the stomach at highway speeds, and even approaching triple digits. I can hardly wait for class.

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