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Timmer

What Electronics Are You Guys Running?

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Timmer -

 

Any news on an ignition timing, adjusting box for the 2012, 1000RR BMW yet..?

 

Thanks

 

Mike

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would love to hear about the S1000RR HP4's system

anyway, is stock electronic systems within the field of discussion? (ie traction controls onn the new Ninja 636 etc )

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Hey guys,

 

As usual I have been stuck in the dyno room and didn't see the new posts. I figured I better get on here and respond to you guys...

 

Hans,

Unfortunately, the Autotune unit won't show you power numbers. The Autotune box is trying to attain an AFR number, not a power number.

 

Mike,

No news yet on the BMW S1000RR Ignition Module. Last I heard we were trying to source the connectors we need, which was proving difficult.

 

ktk_ace,

I am also very interested to see the new HP4. I would guess that the engine management stuff is very similar to the past S1000RR's, but what intrigues me the most is the new Dynamic Damping Control of the suspension system. There are a bunch of design routes they could have chosen and I'm really interested to see how it works and also how it is integrated into the existing engine management.

 

Best,

Timmer

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Hey guys,

 

As usual I have been stuck in the dyno room and didn't see the new posts. I figured I better get on here and respond to you guys...

 

Hans,

Unfortunately, the Autotune unit won't show you power numbers. The Autotune box is trying to attain an AFR number, not a power number.

 

Mike,

No news yet on the BMW S1000RR Ignition Module. Last I heard we were trying to source the connectors we need, which was proving difficult.

 

ktk_ace,

I am also very interested to see the new HP4. I would guess that the engine management stuff is very similar to the past S1000RR's, but what intrigues me the most is the new Dynamic Damping Control of the suspension system. There are a bunch of design routes they could have chosen and I'm really interested to see how it works and also how it is integrated into the existing engine management.

 

Best,

Timmer

 

 

 

 

I heard that the damping system is taken from the M5 parts bin so the system is techinically not an entirely new design, but an existing one with tweaks?

 

 

I might be wrong thou, but this route that BMW is doing makes financial sense as the R&D will be much smaller...

 

 

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If that is true, then I think I have an idea how it works.

 

The BMW M5's suspension system electronically controls the valving by adjusting an electromagnet that can very quickly change the orifice size of the suspension valve. It's pretty cool technology, which I think street riders will probably like.

 

I'm curious to know how all of us track guys will like it. Setting up suspension for the track has always been an area which seems to catch a lot of guys out. Now with the new HP4, they are adding ANOTHER component to the suspension system that is changing. Hopefully they have made it easy to adjust....

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The HP4 will be very very good.They will soon release a new Race Calibration kit and combined with the GPS you will be able to change the settins(DDC,DTC,ABS,engine brake etc) depending your location in the track.

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I am running Bazzaz with TC, QS along with Z-Bomb and Auto Tune on my 08 CBR 1000rr. It is extremely easy to use, I have a custom map that was fairly easy to put together for the TC and I leave the Lambda Sensor in for the Auto tune as I am OCD when it comes to throttle response.

 

Matt

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I run the Power Commander V on my 08 FZ1. My mods include a Yosh R77 exhaust, airbox mod, Graves block off plates, EXUP eliminator, modified subthrottle plates, and a fuel cut eliminator from Ivan's Performance. He supplied me with the map as well.

 

I also run a PCV on my 10 Raider. Do I get Dynojet brownie points? :D

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Hey guys,

 

Sorry I've been away for a while. I've been a busy boy and for some reason haven't been getting notified of your new posts. I'll have to check into that. :/

 

Mtmansl,

Glad you are enjoying your Bazzaz unit. I actually haven't played with one much. I would like to get some more time with one to see how they are doing this stuff. Have you used a Power Commander previously? I'd be interested to know why you prefer the Bazzaz unit over a Power Commander....

 

Ken,

You definitely get some Dynojet brownie points. I hope all your Dynojet goodies are working well for you. Please let me know if you have any questions about any of them.

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I'd like to see a smaller o2 sensor for the Autotune. I want to put it on my Raider but it won't fit where the hole for the factory o2 sensor is on my V&H 2-1. I'd have to take the pipes off and to a metal shop to have a new nut welded to the pipe.

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Yeah...I hear ya Ken.

 

We would love to use a smaller O2 sensor! Unfortunately, there are only a few WIDEBAND oxygen sensor designs and they are all the same size. The one we use is the only size that I know of. If there are other smaller oxygen sensors designs, they are probably ridiculously expensive and the ones we use now aren't cheap!

 

Some of the newer bikes have much smaller oxygen sensors, but they are NARROWBAND oxygen sensors. Narrowband oxygen sensors are much simpler in design.

 

Quick clarification....

Narrowband oxygen sensors only sense if the bike is richer or leaner than 14.7:1. They cannot tell by HOW MUCH. Wideband oxygen sensors can tell you your exact air fuel ratio. These are the ones we use for our Autotune.

 

If we discover a smaller oxygen sensor design that is not terribly expensive, I'm sure we would investigate using it. If you come across any, please let me know! :)

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Well Ken, you inspired me.

 

I did some digging and found that there IS a new wideband oxygen sensor design that is much smaller than the current design. This must be relatively new because I have looked into this in the past.

 

Unfortunately, they are listing the price of the sensor at $2000 dollars. Yikes! I'm also not sure if this new sensor will work with the current circuitry we use.

 

At any rate, I passed the info along to and we are going to investigate it further. Who knows, you might see us using it here in the future!

 

Thanks for the kick in the butt! :)

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I have a question about Powercommander and %throttle.I am trying to tune my bike on the dyno and I would like to know for ex 50% throttle in what %throttle should I make the changes?I have in the track many 50%,32%,28%(telemetry)throttle openings and I want to tune it on those areas.Should I for ex the 28% be tuned on 20% or 40% on the map?

Thanks

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Hey DrIoannis,

 

Good question. Like you said, there is no 50% column in the map of the Power Commander. If you roll the throttle to 50%, the Power Commander will look at the fuel addition number in the map for 40% throttle column and 60% throttle column and automatically calculate the fuel addition number that should be used when you are in between them at 50% throttle. This calculation that the Power Commander does is called interpolation. The Power Commander will also do this interpolation for the RPM values that are in between the rows in the map.

 

If you want to target your fueling at 50% throttle you would want to change the fuel addition number in the 40% column AND the 60% column of your map. If you are using a Power Commander 5, I'd suggest getting an Autotune. It does all this work for you. :)

 

What bike are you working on?

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I have a BMW S1000RR 2010 and AIM telemetry with PCV and Autotune.Also in the telemetry I have an AIM LCU One with Bosch 4.9 lambda(the exhaust has 2 lambda holes).The 4.9 as you already know is a revised version of the 4.2 that the Autotune has.The newer version does not need calibration,it auto calibrates every time it starts and its more accurate than the 4.2(wish Autotune had the 4.9).

Well on the dyno the 4.2 sensor shows richer than the 4.9 by maybe .4-.5 on the AFR which is a lot.I checked the 4.2 sensor (dynojet procedure with blinking light etc) and its OK.I think that 4.9 is correct and 4.2 is not because of the color at the exhaust,it got better when I made custom tuning by 4.9.The 4.2 has maybe 4000km which is not that much.

With the AIM telemetry I can have AFR measurement 50Hz (50 times per sec) and I can see it in comparison with throttle,temp,RPM etc and I know what AFR I have very very accurately at every point in the track(with GPS help).

1)What can I do with the 4.2 sensor.Is there a way to calibrate?I know there is a procedure with a mix of gas at Dynojet centers but I have one 800km away separated by sea.

2)If for example I have a target AFR 13.0 on 20% and 40% at the same RPM and +5 on 20% and +15 on 40% on the fuel what will the 30% be.Is there a formula for the interpolation?

Wish there was an option for better resolution for the throttle(you can transfer that to Dynojet :) ).

By the way how are things with the BMW S1000RR ignition module?

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The Bosch LSU 4.2 and 4.9 O2 sensor are actually very similar. The only difference between the two is that the newer LSU 4.9 has better resolution of the air/fuel measurement in the "free air" range of the sensor. This "free air" range is for air/fuel ratios that are leaner than 18:1, which is well outside the range that we care about when tuning our bikes.

 

The sensors are already very accurately pre-calibrated from Bosch. The accuracy tolerances of each sensor are VERY tight. Because of this, we don't allow a calibration of the sensor. We can simply tell you if the sensor is good or bad.

 

The biggest variable with air/fuel measurement is not the sensor, but the electronics that are used to calculate the air/fuel ratio from the sensor. Before we released our Autotune, I tested it against 6 other air/fuel measurement products. They all measured slightly different air/fuel ratios of the same exhaust sample. The differences come from the differences in the circuitry and firmware that each of the products are using to measure the O2 sensor.

 

The bigger question here is "Which one is right?". It is possible that the Autotune is more accurate than the AIM, or vice versa. It's very tough to determine which one is right, because you don't know which one is more accurate to begin with. It's important to note that the differences I am talking about here are pretty small(2-5%). This is where a dyno comes in handy. You can relate the air/fuel measurement you are reading to how it physically affects the bike(horsepower/torque).

 

For your example above regarding interpolation....it's kind of tricky. First of all, when you "apply" your Trim Table from Autotune it does not just add the Trim Table value and the Fuel Table value together. The Trim Table value is a % change of the Fuel Table value, essentially a % change of a % change. When Autotune is running, it does this calculation on the fly.

 

The interpolation that the Power Commander does is also kind of tricky because it is doing it in two directions. It is interpolating in the vertical direction of the map as well as the horizontal direction of the map. For your example above, 30% throttle is exactly in the middle of 20% and 40%. So the resultant fuel change number for 30% throttle would be [(15-5)/2]+5 = 10. Make sense?

 

We are still having problems getting the connectors that we need for the BMW Ignition Module. If anything changes I will definitely let you know. :)

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Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to get this Tuning section started.

 

First and foremost....What kind of aftermarket tuning system are you guys/gals running(Power Commander, Bazzaz, ECUnleashed, etc.)?

 

Why did you choose that system over the others?[/quot

Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to get this Tuning section started.

 

First and foremost....What kind of aftermarket tuning system are you guys/gals running(Power Commander, Bazzaz, ECUnleashed, etc.)?

 

Why did you choose that system over the others?

 

I'm planning on the PCV unless there is something new coming around the pike I should look for. I will use it because it has a good reputation.

I'm wondering if the Autotune eliminates the need for dynotuning and what pipe you like for the s1k? I'm looking at the Brocks CT Single because I want a quieter pipe that still gives good power.

Also, do you think ECUnleashed will do much for me? I have my doubts but am all ears.

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Trimmer, please keep it on a basic level that the average person can understand. Thanks.

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Hey Shakabusa,

I'm definitely trying to keep the info I post as basic as possible as I know it can get complicated real quick. It's a tough gig for me because some guys have quite a bit of experience with this stuff, while others don't. If you have any questions about anything I have posted, please let me know and I'd be happy to clarify it the best I can.

 

I'm happy to hear you are thinking about going with a PCV for your bike. In answer to your question about the Autotune...yes, if you get the Autotune there is really no need to get your bike dynotuned unless you want to see horsepower numbers.

 

I have heard mixed reviews on the ECUnleashed stuff. Some guys feel a big difference, while others don't. The things that ECUnleashed is able to modify varies from bike to bike, and I'm not sure what they can do for the S1000RR.

 

Best,

Timmer

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On my Yamaha FZ-09 I'm running PCV, O2 Optimizer, Autotune and Quickshifter

 

Awesome tunnelvision...glad to hear it! :)

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I've found a PCV on my CBR600RR 2009. I brought it to the track last weekend and man it drinks gas! The engine is very smooth, but I feel like it's running a bit too rich. The previous owner told me the mapping was performed for the current exhaust. Does the autotune would take care of any weather/exhaust change? And does it work in real-time with PCV while I'm riding the bike?

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Hey Spaghetti,

 

The answer to both of your questions is YES.

 

Autotune works in real-time, so it will richen/lean the mixture for any changing conditions WHILE you ride. When you go to turn it on(using the Power Commander software), you will see a "Target Air/Fuel" table that gets added to the map. This is where you tell Autotune the air/fuel ratio that you would like to shoot for. You can adjust this table to run different air/fuel ratios for different areas of the map. From there all you need to do is go out and ride. Autotune will do the rest of the work.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Timmer

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Spaghetti,

 

From my experience, most bikes make their best power when they run an air/fuel ratio of 13:1.

 

When you enable Autotune there should already be some values in the "Target Air/Fuel" table, so you shouldn't have to mess with it if you don't want to. You will probably see values in that table that range from 13:1 in the high throttle/RPM range to 13.5:1 or so in the lower throttle/RPM range. We normally map bikes slightly leaner in the low throttle/RPM range so that you get better gas mileage when you are just cruising on the highway.

 

I've posted some more info about air/fuel ratio in this post if you are curious....

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3294

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