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Passing In The Corner

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After doing my first non CSS track day on my own bike (sv650) where they do not allow inside passing I found myself better at corners than most but that my bike is slower than most on straights and corner exit. How should I go about getting by people in these situations?

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Hillarious. I know what you mean euge, I have an SV as well. If you are in the novices then the guys on the inline fours tend to be a gear too high coming out of the bends so you can use the grunt of the SV and take some yards out of them there, to balance out their top end power when they get going. It's possible top pass on the exit or straight if you hang back a little, so that you go through the bend at your own speed and exit faster than them (+ v-twin traction +midrange torque). It's that or you need to pass on the brakes but on track days you have to be early and clear about these moves or they'll jump on you (rightly).

 

Ultimately I tuned mine to 80bhp and this is enough to stay with the 600s etc. on tracks where you go up to about 120mph, in the intermediate groups. It's a battle all the way but when you pass a more powerful bike in a straight line it's worth it!

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If you can carry lots more speed through the corner than them I'd suggest simply going round the outside.

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If you can carry lots more speed through the corner than them I'd suggest simply going round the outside.

i understand that concept and i usually can on the longer sweeping turns but its the shorter corners that is more difficult to do it on for me.

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After doing my first non CSS track day on my own bike (sv650) where they do not allow inside passing I found myself better at corners than most but that my bike is slower than most on straights and corner exit. How should I go about getting by people in these situations?

 

 

This is an very annoying part of riding a lower HP bike at open track days. Many riders on 1000cc bikes take an extreme outside entrance to the corner, slow WAY down, tiptoe through the corner, then pin it on the exit, leaving you no easy way to get by them. The BEST thing to do (in my opinion) is take more CSS schools and get faster so you can move up to a level at the track days where inside passing IS allowed, usually the advanced groups are safer to ride in anyway, much more predictable! That may sound flippant, but it is quite sincere, I ride a 250cc bike and you couldn't pay me to go back and ride in the slow group at an open track day, it is REALLY tough to make passes if you can't go inside.

 

In the meantime, one thing that can help is to hang back a little on the entry (so the slow rider is not blocking you and forcing you to brake hard), carry more speed into the corner and try to get around on the outside. Unfortunately, an inexperienced person on a high HP bike could gun it mid-corner and go wide, and you don't have the option to hold a tight line and pass on the inside, so he could potentially push you off the track, so you want to get the pass done as early as possible in the turn. Naturally if the rider is aggressive, he/she can pin the throttle and pass you back if there is a straight right after the turn, but often after you do it a few times they usually give it up or make a mistake and run wide and you can pull away.

 

The best trick is not to be so close to the slow rider on the turn entry that he robs all your momentum going into the turn. It also makes it easier to look ahead at passing options, instead of getting stuck staring at his taillight.

 

You can usually gain the most ground on point and shoot riders in a series of turns (chicanes, etc.) but can't usually pass IN those sections since an outside pass suddenly becomes an inside pass in the next turn - but you CAN try to set up the rider for a pass at the outside of the last turn in the series. Or, sometimes you can find a long sweeping turn that sucks inexperienced riders into an early, inside turn point, a great chance to pass them on the outside at the entry.

 

Check with your track day officials and see how they define inside passing - can you pass on the EXIT of the turn, on the inside? If so, you might be able to hang back a little, take a later turn point, quick turn the bike to a later apex and get an early drive to come up the inside on the exit of the turn. You also might request a passing flag, if this is a constantly occurring problem and you are really being held back.

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Wide and late entry then cut in on the inside after apex or late brake

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After doing my first non CSS track day on my own bike (sv650) where they do not allow inside passing I found myself better at corners than most but that my bike is slower than most on straights and corner exit. How should I go about getting by people in these situations?

This is an very annoying part of riding a lower HP bike at open track days. Many riders on 1000cc bikes take an extreme outside entrance to the corner, slow WAY down, tiptoe through the corner, then pin it on the exit, leaving you no easy way to get by them. The BEST thing to do (in my opinion) is take more CSS schools and get faster so you can move up to a level at the track days where inside passing IS allowed, usually the advanced groups are safer to ride in anyway, much more predictable! That may sound flippant, but it is quite sincere, I ride a 250cc bike and you couldn't pay me to go back and ride in the slow group at an open track day, it is REALLY tough to make passes if you can't go inside.

+infinity (give and take a few points).

 

The most dangerous group to ride in is usually the lowest group where people are allowed to pass at all.

We refer to it affectionately as the "Desperado" group, where the guys (it's always guys) have more balls and bike than driving skills - which is directly reflected in the crash statistics.

Usually the crash rate falls with increasing group speed.

 

Kai

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Perhaps ask this guy for some tips? :)

 

 

It's a guy on a 250 Ninja showing the 1000cc boys how it's done at Laguna Seca.

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Perhaps ask this guy for some tips? :)

 

 

It's a guy on a 250 Ninja showing the 1000cc boys how it's done at Laguna Seca.

 

 

Wow, If I could ride like that I sure as heck would get off that 250 and get a bigger bike. Not to say that the 250 isnt fun but Id rather not have to deal with guys riding slower than me on higher hp bikes.

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Wow, If I could ride like that I sure as heck would get off that 250 and get a bigger bike. Not to say that the 250 isnt fun but Id rather not have to deal with guys riding slower than me on higher hp bikes.

 

Think you misinterpret. There's A LOT of 250 racing out that way. When it comes to racing it's about as cheap as it gets and as I understand it a boat load of fun! Expect to race AFM on one when I get back out west. ;)

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I would much rather ride a 250 and beat litre bikes than ride a litre bike and be beaten by a toofiddy.

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Oh, its totally worth it when you pass the big bikes in the corners. :)

On tight tracks like Streets of Willow the bigger bikes don't really have places to blow by you like that video.

 

Gorecki is right, 250 racing is GREAT, lots of fun, cheaper, very competitive, and in my experience the people are very cool.

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Good stuff there from Hotfoot. I've passed people on the outside but as said, unless you're a lot faster than them, you end up passing them where they are thiking of getting on the gas, so risk being pushed onto the grass before they know you are there.

 

I too ride in intermediates now, they are faster (esp the inline four 600 guys who can work out their gears and exit a corner with more drive) but much mroe predictable. There are also a lot of tools in novices who really just want to spend all day overtaking people. Most TD comapnies say after 3-4 days you're good to go up to inters, and it sounds like you're fairly in the groove, they might not let you book yet though until you have a few more novice days done. You can ask to be moved up on the day once they've had a chance to see you ride.

 

Inside passing, I think they mainly mean entry and mid-corner, these are the places people come unstuck when someone suddenly appears as they are usually doing something fairly aggressive. Worth clarifying though.

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After doing my first non CSS track day on my own bike (sv650) where they do not allow inside passing I found myself better at corners than most but that my bike is slower than most on straights and corner exit. How should I go about getting by people in these situations?

This is an very annoying part of riding a lower HP bike at open track days. Many riders on 1000cc bikes take an extreme outside entrance to the corner, slow WAY down, tiptoe through the corner, then pin it on the exit, leaving you no easy way to get by them. The BEST thing to do (in my opinion) is take more CSS schools and get faster so you can move up to a level at the track days where inside passing IS allowed, usually the advanced groups are safer to ride in anyway, much more predictable! That may sound flippant, but it is quite sincere, I ride a 250cc bike and you couldn't pay me to go back and ride in the slow group at an open track day, it is REALLY tough to make passes if you can't go inside.

+infinity (give and take a few points).

 

The most dangerous group to ride in is usually the lowest group where people are allowed to pass at all.

We refer to it affectionately as the "Desperado" group, where the guys (it's always guys) have more balls and bike than driving skills - which is directly reflected in the crash statistics.

Usually the crash rate falls with increasing group speed.

 

Kai

 

Funny I usually find it's the medium group, novices are slow and all over the track, but you can pass them everywhere. Medium group are usually novices who find themselves "too fast" for novice group, and it really reflects in crash rate. Fast group is the best group, people know what they are doing, but you need a minimum speed to be there, which can be track dependent. I have the consistent speed to ride in medium/fast, but usually go for novice, because I want to avoid to be taken out by someone outbraking himself.

 

But back to the topic, try following a rider a bit, and choose where you will overtake him/her, I use one or two corners to assess where, then I make a clean but deliberate move, so the rider in front have no doubt about my move.

 

Ronni

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