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Hayabusa On The Track

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It can't be about two riders who get through turns at the same rate and one has a better top end. That's just indisputable. Nic

 

You typed while I typed :D But unfortunately, that is very disputable. Which is why Yamaha, with a lot less power than Honda, won all those 500cc GP titles over the much faster Hondas; they got drive whereas the Hondas had to wait to get on the gas.

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Wait a minute. Two bikes exit the corner together. The one that has the over all better acceleration has to win. That can't be wrong.

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The perch from which I'm going to smoke you all...just kidding. Look, I'm not even a great street rider or canyon carver. I'm just a little above average rider. I hope there's no pretense beyond that. I know I need track time and schooling. Right now I can't get it although I did find a way to get on the track out side of CSS. So????

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Wait a minute. Two bikes exit the corner together. The one that has the over all better acceleration has to win. That can't be wrong.

 

No, that is not wrong. But if one bike can accelerate 30 metres sooner because its power delivery is smooth and easy to control whereas the other, more powerful bike must wait to accelerate because its power delivery is too violent for the tyre to handle, who will then win over the next 100 metre straight, you think? And what if that less powerful bike could be lighter so that the rider hanging off has a greater effect of shifting the over all CoG inwards so that it can corner at 50 mph instead of 45 mph? And what if that less powerful, lighter bike could stay on the gas for 20 metres longer? Do you think it will affect the lap time?

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I mean, I know a Hayabusa is not the perfect track bike...is that what everyone is all up in arms about?

 

No, its not about that at all. . . There are people who will bring harley's onto a track. I had a friend with a V-rod who knew he could lean over much further going left than right because of exhaust clearance on that bike. Kind of dangerous in that going hard right would lever the rear wheel and low side, but he was conscious of that. But its not about the bike - its about your realization that and adamant position that your lowered turbo hayabusa is better around a track than more worthy track bikes. The busa is fine around a track - but a lowered, lenghthened, hot rod turbo busa is not a better riding "instrument" than even within their own line GSXR1000.

 

Wait a minute. Two bikes exit the corner together. The one that has the over all better acceleration has to win. That can't be wrong.

 

No, you're twisting the debate to where you know the hayabusa has the only advantage (along a straight) and thats it. The more nimble bike can carry much higher speeds into and through the turns (without slowing down more). Since its through the turn faster, it has a faster exit speed and can get on the gas much sooner to reach whatever speed its going to reach. Basically from a start - lets say the busa can take the turn at 80mph, and lets say the bmw can take the turn at 90. You have to slow down to 80 while the bmw is at 90mph around the turn. At 90mph, your chewing up 132ft/sec, at 80 mph, your chewing up 117ft/sec. So the more nimble bike is gaining 15ft/sec just through the turn. And since its through the turn faster, right when the bike is set through the turn, its on the gas much sooner accelerating out of the turn while you're still waiting to get onto the gas - followed by a small straight, more turns, more straights and turns. The only place where you are going to make up any distance/speed is on the 0.5mile straight - but that won't make up at NJMP say with what 10 turns - and each turn you lost 80ft ? By the time you start your straight, your 800ft behind trying to make that up on a 2000ft straight. . .

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I'm sorry Anthem. I don't have a clue what's going on. In science the simplest answer is often the best. You don't know much about my bike and I certainly never said anything about lengthening it. I never said anything about a Hayabusa in my wait a minute statement. I'm not debating anyone. I'm just trying to decide what kind of bike I want.

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E, I'm going to refer you to my previous response to Anthem. Thanks

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Well...that certainly was informative. I disagree with most of it but that's ok because I respect your opinion.

 

I'm just a bystander watching this wild thread... but I'm gonna stick my nose in now. :)

 

Shakabusa, I think the statement above, from a post way back on page 2, is what has gotten people "up in arms". If you were responding to the post right above it, it appears you were disagreeing that lowering the bike, adding a larger rear sprocket, and adding hp (all of which you said you were considering doing) would make the bike harder to ride on the track. Everyone else DOES seem to think those mods would make the bike less effective as a track bike (and I agree, incidentally) so you are getting a lot of info thrown at you to try to support that position.

 

I think everyone respects a desire to ride whatever bike you want on the track, if you enjoy riding it - if you look back at all the responses BEFORE that post, everyone basically said that if you love the Busa, ride it and have fun! If you are looking for something that will perform BETTER than the Busa - well, you'll get lots of opinions on that, but the "best bike" will depend on the rider size/skillset/budget, the type of track, and a whole lot of other factors including personal passion for certain styles, motors, brands, or looks - there is simply no single answer and if you can swingit , there is nothing better than finding a way to ride a lot if different bikes and feel the differences for yourself.

 

You mentioned before, that you don't know how to quote other posts - in any post you should see a "Quote" button at the bottom. If you click that, it will include the entire contents of the post you are responding to, at the top of your response. If you want to only quote part of it, just delete any of the text that is between the bracketed "quote" words that are at the beginning and end of the quoted text. DON'T delete the part that says "quote" in brackets at the beginning or end, though, or it will give you an error.

 

Hope that helps...

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I'm sorry Anthem. I don't have a clue what's going on. In science the simplest answer is often the best. You don't know much about my bike and I certainly never said anything about lengthening it. I never said anything about a Hayabusa in my wait a minute statement. I'm not debating anyone. I'm just trying to decide what kind of bike I want.

 

Your right, but I and probably everyone else so far is telling you that no matter what you do to the Hayabusa, it will be at a disadvantage to a BMW S1Krr or something along those lines. You're using street examples to justify your positioning which makes no sense. .

 

So a lowered turbo busa. I threw the lengthening in there for added effect and more illustrate a point.

 

Honestly no one here cares what kind of bike you want or I want or you have or I have. We're discussing around the concepts irrespective of the actual bikes. It doesn't matter if you had a Harley, Hayabusa, or a gold wing. We all go back to our own bikes back at home after school. What everyone is trying to point out is that when you say "all things being equal, me on my Hayabusa will smoke a s1k" and everyone is saying - all things being equal, EVERYONE here is going to bet on the BMW S1k because its more agile and its top speed and horsepower isn't going to be shadowed by that Hayabusa in any sort of meaningful way is the realistic answer - thats the difference.

 

And honestly - you really should consider riding as many different kinds of bikes as possible. One of the advantages of the school is that they do offer the BMW for you to ride. You would be crazy not to ride it just to try it out. . .

 

And by the way - I don't own the BMW, never have, and probably never will.

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Wait a minute. Two bikes exit the corner together. The one that has the over all better acceleration has to win. That can't be wrong.

 

You are getting there, this statement IMO is the most accurate position you've had thus far. the bike with the better acceleration wins, not the bike with the most horsepower

 

having the most HP does not mean you will get the best drive, spinning the rear tire, wheelieing the bike, having to wait to get on the gas, carrying lean angle longer around the corner, running wide, all are examples of things that will massively hurt your "drive" and they are all things that will be more likely to happen to a heavier, lowered, higher HP bike over a lighter, lower HP bike with lots of ground clearance

 

as for your statement about a Busa vs a S1000RR, as you yourself pointed out a few pages back the S1000RR has a better power to weight ratio so all things being equal it will not only out accelerate down the straight, but also brake later and carry more speed through the corner

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I don't know how many people saw Ts post with the video about the GP Busa. Please do. Nic

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Roger, thanks that helps a lot. Nic

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I don't know how many people saw Ts post with the video about the GP Busa. Please do. Nic

 

And I'll point out some points from that video -

 

-he can come /close/ to his previous times on the superbike class. . . So after doing all of that, he can take an unlimited bike close to the superbike class that has limits. . . If he's telling you with all those modifications he can only get close to his previous superbike - what should that say ? That a talented rider like that realizes that he can only get close.

 

-Notice the changes that were made ? Raising the bike to get more ground clearance which is completely counter to what you said you were going to do. And at the same time you say "all things being equal, you will smoke a bmw s1000rr"

 

-Notice how he said after spending 846,000 dollars, RAISING the bike, and shortened the bike and who knows what else to get it to be competitive.

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Anthem, I think his essential message was "remains to be seen".

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Anthem, I think his essential message was "remains to be seen".

 

Not what I got - but then let me ask this - are you doing ANYTHING he said he had to do to be competitive or get to "remains to be seen" ? As far as I know, you are looking at LOWERING when he clearly he said he had to RAISE the bike. Then he said he had to shorten the bike which I doubt you'll be doing either.. . So based on that - I don't see how you are getting anywhere closer, but yet claim to be already beyond someone else on a s1000 as is right now.. . .

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Don't forget the part where they mentioned getting more benefit from wind tunnel testing then adding HP to the motor

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Anthem,

I'm not sure how shortening the swing arm would affect the bike overall but its an intriguing idea.

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Shorter Wheelbase = Tighter Turning Radius

 

 

Nic answer me this, Which is faster A: the Ariel Atom V8 with its 500 hp , or B: the Bugatti Veyron Supersport with its 1200 hp ?

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T, I know little about either.

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T, The video described how they got more hp out of the bike using the tunnel, Even a precious few were highly coveted.

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Don't forget the part where they mentioned getting more benefit from wind tunnel testing then adding HP to the motor

 

T, The video described how they got more hp out of the bike using the tunnel, Even a precious few were highly coveted.

 

Do you see the difference here ? I heard/read/saw the same thing McKeen did. You seem to have seen a completely different video. . . Your focused on this increasing horsepower concept, but the video said exactly opposite of that. They didn't add ANY horsepower from using the tunnel.

 

To me, they explained how they used wind tunnel testing to get more aerodynamic, and that tucking your elbows in by 1/2" could gain you 3mph, which was like getting more horsepower. They didn't get more hp nor add to it but used better body positioning to achive a more aerodynamic shape at faster speeds. .

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Anthem, Thats exactly what I said. I hope you realize your tone is somewhat obstreperous, argumentaive, and taunting. Please do your best to be respectful in alll your posts. This is exactly the kind of thing Keith must have gone through when he posited things that didn't exactly jive with the established community; Please don't become enraged by this statement as well; Its a matter of fact although I have a feeling that your going to take it as a grave great offense that I would dare compare myself in any way to Keith. I hope you and T also know that using all caps is the equivilent of yellling in internet language. I don't mind hearing what you have to say; I'd just like to feel respected when I read them; Please treat me like an equal and with respect.

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Uh - that's not what you said. Maybe that's what you meant to say but certainly not what you did. "How they got more hp out of the bike" when in fact they got none.

 

And I don't think you want to get I to Internet etiquette with me. I put it in bold for emphasis.

 

I think its best I bow out of this. Good luck with your progression and I hope you find the enlightenment you are looking for. I will suggest that you should perhaps listen to the instructors who have been giving you very good advice that you appear to be ignoring.

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Anthem, Thanks for doing your best to help me.

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T, I looked for the GP Busa spot outside the forum but couldn't find it on youtube or anywhere else. Need help please.

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