Two Step And Three Step

[spike]

So I was just out riding and was doing the two step. This time I put my second step that I look at further into the turn and it worked wonders. Is there a general guideline for how far into the turn to look for different types of turns? Like say a 90 degree vs a long sweeper.

[Hotfoot]

Let's review general 2 step timing first.

 

Here is the timing as written in A Twist of the Wrist II:

You spot your turn point as early as possible.

Just before arriving at your turn point you look in to the turn to see exactly where you want the bike should go.

 

The idea is to separate the action of LOOKING in from the action of TURNING in.

 

Some riders find it easier to use this method for timing:

Spot your turn point as early as possible.
When you are sure you are going to hit your turn point, look in to the apex (or mid-turn target point).

 

You can extend that idea into three step - when you are sure you are going to make it to your apex, look forward to your next point.

(Question for the group: who can remember the possibilities for what that "next point" might be?)

 

An indicator that you timing is off is feeling rushed or having errors with accuracy. If you have poor accuracy to your apex (not getting the bike to the apex you wanted), you may be looking in too late for a given corner, not giving yourself enough time to look in before you have to turn the bike. If you have to look BACK at your turn point AGAIN after you looked in to the apex, that is an indication that you may have looked in too early and lost track of your turn point.

 

Missing your apex (running over the inside curb, for example) can also be an indication you are looking ahead too far and/or too soon.

 

In some cases you can't see the apex from the turn point, and in those cases you may need an additional reference point (or more than one) to let you know you are on your correct line, this can help correct the problem of looking TOO far ahead towards an apex you can't actually SEE in a decreasing radius corner.

 

For long sweepers, vanishing point can be very helpful in drawing your eyes forward and finding were to look, do you remember how to use that?

 

There are some other GREAT guidelines you can use to help you with timing in various types of turns - Twist II has some good info in Ch 23 under Two -Step Solution and Speed and Space.

[PittsDriver]

 

 

You can extend that idea into three step - when you are sure you are going to make it to your apex, look forward to your next point.

(Question for the group: who can remember the possibilities for what that "next point" might be?)

 

 

I'll take a stab at this one but would welcome feedback (vision continues to be a work in progress for me on the track). My "3rd step" or next reference point might be:

 

- my turn in point for the next turn,

- if it's a long turn, segmented RPs for the next section

- if it's a straight ahead, my RP for when I want the bike stood up and fully on the gas

 

What else?

 

Wes

[csmith12]

An indicator that you timing is off is feeling rushed or having errors with accuracy. If you have poor accuracy to your apex (not getting the bike to the apex you wanted), you may be looking in too late for a given corner, not giving yourself enough time to look in before you have to turn the bike. If you have to look BACK at your turn point AGAIN after you looked in to the apex, that is an indication that you may have looked in too early and lost track of your turn point.

 

Missing your apex (running over the inside curb, for example) can also be an indication you are looking ahead too far and/or too soon.

 

In some cases you can't see the apex from the turn point, and in those cases you may need an additional reference point (or more than one) to let you know you are on your correct line, this can help correct the problem of looking TOO far ahead towards an apex you can't actually SEE in a decreasing radius corner.

 

I myself had this same problem as spike leak back into my street riding and a little bit while on the track. When I got back to the track I went to work straight away to ensure my head was disconnected from my hands (2). After double checking that, the problem was still there. After some real hard thought and the help of another coach, the answer was all too simple... a bad reference point.

 

For example, many riders like to find a turn in point on the tarmac just in front of their bike at the turn in point. But, what if the next reference point requires a head turn so far, that the turn in point goes out of the rider's FOV? Why not simply move the reference point to the other side of the track or another location so it stays in the FOV? And of course as hotfoot noted, you can add another rp if needed.

 

What I am saying is yes, different corners require a rider to turn their head farther than others (sweeper vs bus stop). When you go out on track and play connect the dots with your eyes, ie when a corner just doesn't seen to be "just right", check your references points for location first. This will help solve timing and flow problems as your eyes track from point to point. That is the art and skill of picking good rp's that sync up the rhythms of both the rider and the track.

 

Rp's are not set in stone spike, move them as needed or to what makes good plain common sense to enable the line, throttle control and exit drive.

[Hotfoot]

 

 

 

You can extend that idea into three step - when you are sure you are going to make it to your apex, look forward to your next point.

(Question for the group: who can remember the possibilities for what that "next point" might be?)

 

 

I'll take a stab at this one but would welcome feedback (vision continues to be a work in progress for me on the track). My "3rd step" or next reference point might be:

 

- my turn in point for the next turn,

- if it's a long turn, segmented RPs for the next section

- if it's a straight ahead, my RP for when I want the bike stood up and fully on the gas

 

What else?

 

Wes

 

 

All good answers; you could also be looking for a Vanishing Point.

[spike]

One thing I have been doing to weed out bad RP's is to see if my RP after my turn is in a spot where you can draw a straight line from that point to the turn entry point. If the line crosses curbing or any area I don't want to go it is probably a bad RP. Also I think I am doing some charging so I backed of the pace a little bit and that has helped.

 

Is that bad way to look at your RP after turn in?

[Hotfoot]

One thing I have been doing to weed out bad RP's is to see if my RP after my turn is in a spot where you can draw a straight line from that point to the turn entry point. If the line crosses curbing or any area I don't want to go it is probably a bad RP. Also I think I am doing some charging so I backed of the pace a little bit and that has helped.

 

Is that bad way to look at your RP after turn in?

 

That strategy makes sense; if a straight line from your turn point to your next RP crosses over something you don't want to hit, it is either a bad RP, or you need another point (or maybe even more than one) IN BETWEEN to show you where you want to go.

 

Example - picture a U shaped turn. If you are at the beginning of the U turn and you look all the way across to the final exit, you are likely to run off the inside of the turn, because you go where you look. You would need additional points to define the actual arc of the path you want to take through the turn, so you need some intermediate points - they could be a first apex and a second apex, could include a "widest point" of your arc (somewhere around the "bottom" of the U), etc.

[XPyrion]

At my track, they let the infield grass overgrow so I have to change my RP points during the season. You might ask why I don't just pick different spots that don't matter on the grass being there or not. I don't know if there is such a thing but I would call some RP's strong (worker hut), they are easier to spot and focus on. I find others (maybe a spot on the track) may not be as easy so if I have a choice, I use the easy ones. Basically, a smaller cost for my limited attention.