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Bikespeedman...hmm..I think a real moto2 will get you wayyyyy beyond the HP4 Race in terms of price !

 

Anyway, the thing is not really to know whether the carbon frame had the potential to be notch, or just a "concept" without that much real advantage for random riders (so like me (- :)...because the fact that it does have the potential does not make it work, even with top engineering. These are very complex problems...the frame, like the rest, needs to work in harmony with everything else... Without that you can have the best frame ever without any good result.

 

For instance I was reading a very interesting article in a sportbike magazine where they were interviewing the teams of the WSBK (so...these guys are...well...not bad ! In the Jerez test, Rea's lap on his WSBK Kawasaki was faster than...Rossi's pole position lap at the same place this year...). Anyway, what the technicians of the two teams that are using BMW both independently said is that yes, the BMW engine is the best, most powerful etc...but they are not competitive because they don't manage to transfer all that power so efficiently to the ground. So more powerful but less efficient. And even at lower levels. Here in national championships, the R1s are outcompeting the S1000rr...although without dramatic mods, the s1000rr engine has still higher numbers...and gives you a tremendous excitement on the straights...but the bike is just less efficient overall and so does not win the races.

 

So all in all, while an engineer knowing all the tids and bits about carbon performance and how a carbon frame could be THE thing...until he/she has really looked it up (and tested) and investigated how it works together with all the rest, there is no real way to predict whether it will actually be of any real interest...

 

My 2 cents (-:

 

My 2 cents :)

 

All of these comparisons are really meaningless. None of them ever are a direct comparison and even if they were they would still be equally meaningless. :)

 

You could compare the same rider on the exact same bike and get different results depending on what they had to eat and how much sleep they got. Even the ambient conditions could change a test rending the result equally as meaningless.

 

What does all this mean? Spend less time comparing numbers and spend more time enjoying your bike. That's really the only thing that means anything. If comparison is what tickles your fancy find something that you can actually do a real comparison with results that can actually be replicated. Motorcycles have way too many variables. :)

 

Are all the numbers completely useless? No. As long as you keep the variability in mind they can be somewhat useful for accomplishing some goals. Just stay grounded somewhat in reality about what they really mean.

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Bikespeedman...hmm..I think a real moto2 will get you wayyyyy beyond the HP4 Race in terms of price !

 

Anyway, the thing is not really to know whether the carbon frame had the potential to be notch, or just a "concept" without that much real advantage for random riders (so like me (- :)...because the fact that it does have the potential does not make it work, even with top engineering. These are very complex problems...the frame, like the rest, needs to work in harmony with everything else... Without that you can have the best frame ever without any good result.

 

For instance I was reading a very interesting article in a sportbike magazine where they were interviewing the teams of the WSBK (so...these guys are...well...not bad ! In the Jerez test, Rea's lap on his WSBK Kawasaki was faster than...Rossi's pole position lap at the same place this year...). Anyway, what the technicians of the two teams that are using BMW both independently said is that yes, the BMW engine is the best, most powerful etc...but they are not competitive because they don't manage to transfer all that power so efficiently to the ground. So more powerful but less efficient. And even at lower levels. Here in national championships, the R1s are outcompeting the S1000rr...although without dramatic mods, the s1000rr engine has still higher numbers...and gives you a tremendous excitement on the straights...but the bike is just less efficient overall and so does not win the races.

 

So all in all, while an engineer knowing all the tids and bits about carbon performance and how a carbon frame could be THE thing...until he/she has really looked it up (and tested) and investigated how it works together with all the rest, there is no real way to predict whether it will actually be of any real interest...

 

My 2 cents (-:

 

My 2 cents :)

 

All of these comparisons are really meaningless. None of them ever are a direct comparison and even if they were they would still be equally meaningless. :)

 

You could compare the same rider on the exact same bike and get different results depending on what they had to eat and how much sleep they got. Even the ambient conditions could change a test rending the result equally as meaningless.

 

What does all this mean? Spend less time comparing numbers and spend more time enjoying your bike. That's really the only thing that means anything. If comparison is what tickles your fancy find something that you can actually do a real comparison with results that can actually be replicated. Motorcycles have way too many variables. :)

 

Are all the numbers completely useless? No. As long as you keep the variability in mind they can be somewhat useful for accomplishing some goals. Just stay grounded somewhat in reality about what they really mean.

 

 

We cannot agree more ! That's exactly the point I was trying to make (maybe the message did not go through (-:). Whatever numbers says, in every aspect of the bike, from power to weight to handling, these things are so complicated that the really best working bike does not have to have all the newest parts...it has to be the one that has the best balance, where everything works well together, and that works with one's way of riding and one's level of riding.

 

That's why I only do mods that are strongly advised to me by either riders of similar or slightly higher levels than mine, or by people I trust (from riding coaches to mechanics I know well), as mods that will help my riding. Or of course, mods that I manage to try first. Unfortunately though, sometimes you have to read or take a leap of faith, because it's not that easy to "pre-test" any potential mod (too bad!). But I never do that on mods that are really expensive. And anyway, I don't spend a sent on something if that means that I have to cancel a track day ! Riding remains priority number one. This is all about having fun (although chatting about bike tech is also part of the fun !).

 

To give an example, when I changed bike recently, I went from an s1000rr which I had used for 2 years to the R1, despite the fact that all the numbers of the s1000rr engine are ahead. I did that because of 2 major things. First, I had a lot of feedback that the R1's handling would be the most adapted to me. And second, and most important, I actually used one on the track for an entire day before making my choice. And that day was a fun day. After the first session or two, I was totally set on getting an s1000rr. But session after session, I got to like the R1 more and more, and it grew on me.

 

Does it mean the R1 is the better bike than the s1000rr ? Certainly not. It only means that at this moment, with my level, my riding, what I am trying to achieve on a motorcycle, the R1 was the better choice for me. What one wants to achieve is also key. The bike of one of my best friend is way more advanced than mine, with all the fancy parts. And he is quite slower than me. Am I judging him because his bike is way more expensive than mine and still he is slow ? Never: If that's part of his pleasure, to have a very nice bike, very beautiful with all the accessories, I respect that. Everybody is trying something different. And you would put any CSS coach on a crappy bike and me on the latest of the latest, she/he would still be much faster than me :rolleyes:. But still, I am really working on getting faster and faster. Any mod I will do will go in that direction.

 

And by the way, the best thing I can do for getting faster is modifying....myself ! More classes, more advice on my riding will always bring better result than changing the bike :lol: :lol:

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Absolutely. The rider has a LOT more impact on the man/machine connection than just the hardware. Don't write off upgrades completely though. They can make life a lot easier out there. What a rider does with that hardware advantage of course is the important part.

 

Riders spend a lot of time making comparisons. The only thing that "really" matters to me at least is having a good time and enjoying myself. If my enjoying myself is a few seconds a lap faster or slower than the next rider it really does not matter to me.

 

On the BMW powerplant you are right. It's almost slightly too powerful at times. I would not trade that power for anything though. It's absolutely amazing having that level of power on tap when you want it. What's more amazing is not much has changed with the engine for almost 6 years at this point. They changed the intake slightly in 2015 but for the most part it's the same engine that came into existence back in 2010. :)

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What does all this mean? Spend less time comparing numbers and spend more time enjoying your bike. That's really the only thing that means anything.

 

 

Hee hee, I like this. :)

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One thing for sure though, the millions spent on MotoGP prototypes don't seem to translate to a much better machine than a $300k superbike.

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