Stand Up Drill

[Jaybird180]

Might not be the actual name of the drill (been a long time), but I was wondering if there's a limit to application of the throttle while using the technique? Can I try on my Literbike, coming out of a deep corner, stand it up and go WOT without reservation of becoming stratospheric?

[Hotfoot]

Might not be the actual name of the drill (been a long time), but I was wondering if there's a limit to application of the throttle while using the technique? Can I try on my Literbike, coming out of a deep corner, stand it up and go WOT without reservation of becoming stratospheric?

 

Pickup drill.

 

No way anyone can answer this for you as it depends on the traction conditions, such as: what tire are you using, what is the tire temperature and surface temp, is there any dust, water or oil on the surface, is it bumpy, does your rear suspension adequately keep the tire in contact with the pavement, are YOU the rider sitting in a position that will not upset the bike, is your throttle application smooth vs abrupt, etc.

 

Generally speaking as long as you have very good tires and very good traction conditions and reasonably smooth throttle application, a literbike would normally wheelie before losing traction when upright.

 

But, your timing and throttle control had better be good, because if you slam open the throttle abruptly and are still partially leaned over, or your body is not locked in well, there is potential for a big wobble in back that can pitch you off.

 

The idea behind pickup drill is to maximize traction under acceleration, but ALSO (and arguably more importantly, from a safety standpoint) to get your body and the motorcycle in a good position to save a slide should you start to lose traction. It's not just about standing the bike up, do you remember the relationship between what your body is doing and what the bike is doing, in Pickup Drill?

[Jaybird180]

Body is stable and bike is coming vertical underneath by pulling on the inside bar.

 

Reason I thought of this question is that (it seems to work BTW) by pulling on the inside bar, we've introduced a more abrupt steering input than the gradual one we'd normally use to stand up at the end of the corner, lest we turn it into a circle- not what we want to produce.

 

But that steering input has the front and rear wheel not in line with each other for a slice of time and there's still some cornering forces present even with the bike nearly upright. Now we get the rear propelling the bike forward with grip and I'm just wondering if it's possible to highside to the outside of the corner.

 

Keep in mind my bike doesn't have traction, wheelie control, etc except my right hand. I found NCBike T11 (leading onto the front straight) an exceptionally fun place to practice the Pickup.

[Hotfoot]

Body is stable and bike is coming vertical underneath by pulling on the inside bar.

 

Reason I thought of this question is that (it seems to work BTW) by pulling on the inside bar, we've introduced a more abrupt steering input than the gradual one we'd normally use to stand up at the end of the corner, lest we turn it into a circle- not what we want to produce.

 

But that steering input has the front and rear wheel not in line with each other for a slice of time and there's still some cornering forces present even with the bike nearly upright. Now we get the rear propelling the bike forward with grip and I'm just wondering if it's possible to highside to the outside of the corner.

 

Keep in mind my bike doesn't have traction, wheelie control, etc except my right hand. I found NCBike T11 (leading onto the front straight) an exceptionally fun place to practice the Pickup.

 

Well, sure it is possible to highside out of the corner. But, are you better off to keep the thing leaned over while driving hard or use that bit of steering input to get it upright? Which scenario do you think is more likely to prevent a highside?

 

And, if the bike begins to slide, and you are already in the process of picking it up, would that give you a better chance of regaining traction and not crashing?

 

I'm not sure I entirely follow your concern about the steering input - was there something that happened to you when using the pickup that created this question, or is this a purely a speculative thought?

 

Either way - to follow the thought through - yes the steering input would put the wheels out of alignment very briefly; I suppose potentially if the front wheel was very light it could push (slide) but it does not appear to me that this would create any instability, it would just be a less effective steering input and the bike might not come upright as quickly as desired. As you have no doubt seen in racing, if the bike is still leaned over out of a corner and in a wheelie, it will maintain the same lean angle; you might want to have a look at the "Steer for the Rear" section in Twist of the Wrist II, it is Chapter 13 and may be helpful to you.

[Jaybird180]

No bad experience but I am thinking of ways to experiment with the outer edges of this.

 

On another note, there's a YouTube video of Andy Ibbott explaining Pedrosa using it at the apex off every corner. I'll pay more attention to Pedrosa from now on.

[Cobie Fair]

Does he say apex...? I'll have to go and see, as we don't train it like that exactly.

[Jaybird180]

Yes, he makes note that it's something unique that Pedrosa does and is an exception to (can't recall). It doesn't sound like he's recommending it, but it's tough to resist the allure the way he explains the benefit of spinning the tire before it hooks up and drives you forward.

[Hotfoot]

Yes, he makes note that it's something unique that Pedrosa does and is an exception to (can't recall). It doesn't sound like he's recommending it, but it's tough to resist the allure the way he explains the benefit of spinning the tire before it hooks up and drives you forward.

 

Sounds like more of a dirt track type of technique where you slide the back end around to get it pointed in the direction you want to go, then stand it up and drive hard. Not something for the faint of heart, on a sport bike; you would have to be willing to really let the back slide and you'd have to be capable of very fine control to not crash it.

 

The best place to learn that sort of technique (sliding the back end around that way) is on dirt on a small dirtbike, where the consequences of error are less severe and the idea of practicing it is a lot less intimidating.

[Jaybird180]

 

Yes, he makes note that it's something unique that Pedrosa does and is an exception to (can't recall). It doesn't sound like he's recommending it, but it's tough to resist the allure the way he explains the benefit of spinning the tire before it hooks up and drives you forward.

 

Sounds like more of a dirt track type of technique where you slide the back end around to get it pointed in the direction you want to go, then stand it up and drive hard. Not something for the faint of heart, on a sport bike; you would have to be willing to really let the back slide and you'd have to be capable of very fine control to not crash it.

 

The best place to learn that sort of technique (sliding the back end around that way) is on dirt on a small dirtbike, where the consequences of error are less severe and the idea of practicing it is a lot less intimidating.

 

The way you describe sounds a lot like how Jorge Lorenzo's riding style is described. He's known for being on the gas prior to the apex while others are still slightly on the brakes.

Here's the reference: http://www.sportrider.com/motogp-so-what-does-lorenzo-really-think-about-ducati-after-his-first-ride#page-6