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Cobie Fair

Hand Position

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Cobie Fair    13

This foot position thread got me thinking about hand position.  For a long time didn't seem to be a big issue, but as we've delved into it, there more pieces to that puzzle too.  Often we see the front brake lever in a position that is not easy to reach, either too high, or too low.  Then we hear about riders not being able to roll the throttle all the way (one guy told me in the middle of a roll on he had to re-grip!).

So to start out, I'd like to ask a few survey questions:

 

1.  How many pay any attention to your had position, or is this a virtual non-issue?

2.  How many have had any issues with control actions of their hands: hard to reach brake, use throttle effectively/easily (or even clutch).

Let's start with that, see what we get.

CF

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Jaybird180    30

There's are a few videos on YouTube about changing hand control position to better suit the rider. By all indications, riders are largely reluctant to make ergonomic adjustments to their bikes, believing the factory knows best.

I will be able to finish this thought later, as I'm in my driveway home now, typing on my iPhone.

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Cobie Fair    13

Fascinating...I think we adjust a lot of levers.

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RonniB    4

It's the first thing I notice*, the throw of the throttle, and then the angle of the levers. So changing and adjusting the components are vital to my comfort, especially grips. I find that soft thin grip, like the pale grey renthals are the best.

 

*seat and pegs too, I recovered every seat on every bike I ever had

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Hotfoot    48

What were you going for when re-covering the seat? More grip, or less? Or were you reshaping them? 

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RonniB    4

Both reshaping to a flatter, more horizontal shape, and more grip. Both helps me stay in place and be less likely to put unwanted weight on the bars. I used suede on my seats on top of closed cell foam, which was sanded to shape.

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DamienC    2

I think about my hand positions a lot. On my track bike, the position of the brake lever vs clutch lever are very different. I don' t know what's good what's bad, but I played a lot with that to find what works for me. Then when leaning to the right, I actually do think a lot about moving my hand so that it is in continuity with the throttle for better control. Also I changed the throttle so have less angle when WOT. Like this, I don't need to turn my hand so much and I feel I have more control.

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powayTom    4

I took the comment from Jaybird 180 and looked online.  I was very interested since the S1000RR stock clip-ons have stops to prevent realignment.  Of course there are some adjustments still possible.  For the real answer I was fortunate enough to find the CSS video that popped up from my search.  I watched the Utube video Dylan did on this topic.  I never thought about adjusting my grip to a 'screwdriver-like' hold when hanging off.  It was so simple I felt a bit behind the 8-ball.  All in all it makes absolute sense to keep the alignment correct.  Another great tip and visual explanation.

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powayTom    4

Question relating to roll-on/off.  Keith states in Wrist II that when you "slow the basic throttle roll-on through a turn, it costs time and stability".  Just so I am not over-thinking this.  Is it correct to say that if I am following the throttle rule, and my rate of roll-on is too slow, that I can negatively affect my stability the same as if I stopped the roll-on or rolled off?

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powayTom    4

Sorry another Wrist II question;  DC's column note in Throttle Control states "It's simple; crack it on-let it settle-come into it.  What am I missing?  That would seem to violate the throttle rule number one, at least the let it settle part. 

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Hotfoot    48
53 minutes ago, powayTom said:

Question relating to roll-on/off.  Keith states in Wrist II that when you "slow the basic throttle roll-on through a turn, it costs time and stability".  Just so I am not over-thinking this.  Is it correct to say that if I am following the throttle rule, and my rate of roll-on is too slow, that I can negatively affect my stability the same as if I stopped the roll-on or rolled off?

If your roll on is too slow you would not be optimizing the weight distribution for the best possible traction, and suspension efficiency. But, if you compare that to chopping the throttle mid corner, which do you think would have a greater effect? What would happen to the weight distribution between front and rear tires? How would it affect your suspension? 

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powayTom    4

So too slow a rate prevents you from obtaining the 40/60 distro.  Chopping mid corner would seem to be much, much worse since that is an immediate uneven transfer of rear to front.  The chop would also compress the front fork and lower the rear and create a pogo when  you did start to roll on again.    Thank you HotToes.

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Jaybird180    30
On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:20 PM, powayTom said:

I took the comment from Jaybird 180 and looked online.  I was very interested since the S1000RR stock clip-ons have stops to prevent realignment.  Of course there are some adjustments still possible.  For the real answer I was fortunate enough to find the CSS video that popped up from my search.  I watched the Utube video Dylan did on this topic.  I never thought about adjusting my grip to a 'screwdriver-like' hold when hanging off.  It was so simple I felt a bit behind the 8-ball.  All in all it makes absolute sense to keep the alignment correct.  Another great tip and visual explanation.

Sorry I didn't "finish" the thought as I posted above. Seems that it was useful enough for you to take assertive action. Goal achieved!

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Hotfoot    48
On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:06 PM, powayTom said:

So too slow a rate prevents you from obtaining the 40/60 distro.  Chopping mid corner would seem to be much, much worse since that is an immediate uneven transfer of rear to front.  The chop would also compress the front fork and lower the rear and create a pogo when  you did start to roll on again.    Thank you HotToes.

Yep. Good understanding! If you have the Twist II DVD there is also a good illustration on there showing the effect on the front tire when you abruptly chop the throttle. Regarding your other question about the quote in Twist II on throttle control - I don't really know the answer on that one, I want to get that info from Keith or Dylan or Cobie but they are on the road at schools right now so I'm not sure when I will hear back. I'll post up when I have the info for you, or one of them will. It could be that he was referring to bikes that may have jerked a bit when the throttle was first applied, as opposed to our newer 1000cc bikes that have a much more predictable and smooth throttle response. :) 

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BikeSpeedman    14
On 4/5/2017 at 2:08 PM, Cobie Fair said:

1.  How many pay any attention to your had position, or is this a virtual non-issue?

2.  How many have had any issues with control actions of their hands: hard to reach brake, use throttle effectively/easily (or even clutch).

 

1. I pay attention to my hand position and set my levers up to allow a full range without re-gripping. I also set the distance to the levers to personal taste.

2. No issues.

However, I do have a bad habit which the coaches pointed out and I don't feel comfortable working on it. :( I do 99% of my miles on the street so I cover the brake. Alllllll the time. It's partially about being ready to use the brake but it's become a crutch to help me modulate or maintain the throttle as needed. So I haven't been practicing moving my fingers onto and back off of the lever without accidentally affecting throttle input or developed the skills to roll on smoothly without using the lever as a crutch. I hesitate to start practicing on the street because there's a reason we cover on the road and I hesitate to practice on the track because I don't trust myself to do it well.

Not sure what the consensus among coaches is but I think I still manage (now, but not originally) to get my elbow and wrist in the proper position even while covering so maybe I just have to look dumb.

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