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JP_636

Turn-in point techniques

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Once the weather cools off more, i'm looking into doing my first track day! In the meantime, i'm researching cornering and body techniques but im confused when in comes to what you should be doing with the throttle once you hit your turn-in point.

According to the multiple sites i've visited and videos i've watched people either

1. Engine brake through the turn-in point, until they finish leaning over then they gradually/smoothly apply throttle through the apex and exit.

2. Use "Maintenance Throttle" through the turn-in point, again until your at your desired lean angle then gradually apply throttle through the apex and exit.

3. At the turn in point gradually start applying throttle through the entire corner and exit (Although i thought when you apply lean angle you shouldn't be applying throttle at the same time?)

Are these just different cornering techniques used?

Is it safe to engine brake through a corner? 

Is one more effective/practical (such as for Street vs Track?)

I'm as new as it comes to this, any feedback would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!!

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Hi JP,

Your questions are good.  There are a number of factors that come into play, and one answer won't work for all turns/situation.  The one that will give the most problems is increasing throttle and lean angle together, that's usually a big no-no.  Have you read any of Twist of the Wrist 2, or seen the video?  That will give you some great guidelines.  

Best,

Cobie

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OP, I see where you are coming from.

David Moss has this mantra I've been seeing on his facebook videos- brake- throttle- turn. And it confused me at first. Unless you think of it as maintenance throttle rather than actually accelerating. Still, even then I'm confused a little.

My impression of TOTW and reading here is that you simply don't want to get into the habit of accelerating and adding lean angle Even if at your speed and skill level you are far from the limit of the tire. As you get faster, it's simply too easy to shoot right past the warning signs of approaching the limit.

At the same time you want that throttle control where you are gradually rolling on the throttle while trading off lean angle. Ideally you want to set up your corner so you can accomplish this. Obviously, it's not always possible on the street.

At least that's my take...

 

I mean when you are really lapping around a track and feeling fast and you set up the corner right and make your pivot steering input, I can't imagine rolling on the throttle at that time as well. It seems like too much is going on with the chassis much like you don't want to be moving around in your seat at this time either.

Once you release the inside bar pressure, settle down in the seat, then I can see rolling on maintenance throttle. Then it's a gradual roll on the throttle while coming out of your lean.

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:38 AM, jcw said:

Still, even then I'm confused a little.

 

I can see why that would be confusing, especially if there was not a exact explanation of specifically WHEN to roll on the throttle and WHY. What, exactly, was the stated purpose of that before turn roll-on you describe in that mantra you mentioned?

"Maintenance throttle" is s term that is thrown around a lot but different people seem to have different ideas of what it is supposed to mean. I personally have heard at least three different definitions. :)

Twist of the Wrist II gives a detailed and straightforward explanation of good throttle control, might want to have another look at that if you haven't in a while.

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The reason given was that the suspension works better loaded rather than unloaded.

I suppose it is similar to TOTW2. the idea of the best weight distribution coming from slowly rolling on the throttle, but the way it was presented is confusing.

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Thanks to all that replied! I finally watched TOTW 2 and i definitely have a better understanding now. I plan on getting the book and reading it here soon too 🤘🏻

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What's up JP_636.  I took the Level and Level 2 course at NJMP.  I went back and read TOTW2 again and it talks about how the suspension while exiting the turn.  I used to describe it a "squat" but the technical term is "weight transfer" according to the book.  LOL....   You want a transfer of 10-20% of weight off the front to the rear.  Once you get the bike on the line you  want "GET IT ON" meaning you want to get the throttle on so that the weight transfer happens.  Accelerate smoothly  and enjoy the sensation. My 2 cents

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On 8/23/2018 at 9:41 AM, JP_636 said:

Once the weather cools off more, i'm looking into doing my first track day! In the meantime, i'm researching cornering and body techniques but im confused when in comes to what you should be doing with the throttle once you hit your turn-in point.

According to the multiple sites i've visited and videos i've watched people either

1. Engine brake through the turn-in point, until they finish leaning over then they gradually/smoothly apply throttle through the apex and exit.

 

 

As Cobie stated, there won't be one single answer as every road/ track will have variations of turns, angle of the road, surface differences, etc. 

I was at Thunderhill West in June and learned that I was accelerating through a turn that I could have just used my momentum to get through and I was faster in doing so. Some people might call it "coasting" or engine braking. I just know that down the straight I would see Turn 1, enter Turn 1, and would not get back on the throttle until exiting Turn 2. My momentum carried me through. 

When I used the throttle at the exit of T1 and into T2, I would have too much speed and have to move around a lot to try to catch my already missed apex and try to set up for the next turn. It was too much! A lot going on and more reacting rather than having a plan. The track/ road itself does not move around or change much. It is the rider that is the unknown variable! Have a plan for each turn you take. 

Hope your first track day went well! :)

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