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gianco

wrong push on external handlebar

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today at track, after many times of trackday,

i realized that meanwhile i drag knee down,

i'm pushing on external handlebar.

i know is really wrong.

as soon as i realized it, i tryed to release pressure, suddently bike, leaned more and turned more inside the cornering,

but i felt i was"too slow " for that "moment"

 

i think it's the fear of lean angle,

instinctively i try to keep bike upright.

 

how i can, force myself to not push outside bar?

( i have a bmw s1000xr)

i'm that in photo 

FDF4F4D4-D107-4928-B28B-9EF520D4BAC5.jpeg

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Fear of leaning too far can be one factor for keeping pressure on the handlebars.  Part of it may simply be reminding yourself not to have pressure.  Another bigger thing may be addressing why you feel fear.  Maybe it is a visual issue with looking far enough down the track.

 

Also, are you supporting your body weight through holding the handlebars?  This may also cause the tense arms if you are trying to hold yourself up by gripping the handlebar.  Fixing this requires improving your lower body contact with the motorcycle.  This might be addressed by looking at how you use your outside knee to contact the tank.  If you were to give a percentage (%), how secure does your outside knee to tank contact feel when cornering?

 

P.S. It's a bit of a trek, but not too far to consider checking out the UK operations of the school to have a coach work in-person on these issues.  Often, an external set of eyes can identify issues that you're unaware of.

 

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In Level 1 we have a Steering Drill, that if properly done (can't usually be done in the wet), should be able to help this issue.  As Apollo said, sometimes a trained external eye can help.  If you can't get to a school, we'll see if we can offer a suggestion.

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7 hours ago, Apollo said:

Fear of leaning too far can be one factor for keeping pressure on the handlebars.  Part of it may simply be reminding yourself not to have pressure.  Another bigger thing may be addressing why you feel fear.  Maybe it is a visual issue with looking far enough down the track.

 

Also, are you supporting your body weight through holding the handlebars?  This may also cause the tense arms if you are trying to hold yourself up by gripping the handlebar.  Fixing this requires improving your lower body contact with the motorcycle.  This might be addressed by looking at how you use your outside knee to contact the tank.  If you were to give a percentage (%), how secure does your outside knee to tank contact feel when cornering?

 

P.S. It's a bit of a trek, but not too far to consider checking out the UK operations of the school to have a coach work in-person on these issues.  Often, an external set of eyes can identify issues that you're unaware of.

 

i feel in strong contact with bike,

i could leave the handlebar.......

except in that moment when i feel push on external handlebar

 

and that happen on my max lean

 

i'm feeling like i 'm trying to lean off excessively with bike leaning way less.

 

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On 7/18/2019 at 9:28 PM, gianco said:

i feel in strong contact with bike,

i could leave the handlebar.......

except in that moment when i feel push on external handlebar

 

and that happen on my max lean

 

i'm feeling like i 'm trying to lean off excessively with bike leaning way less.

 

One thing to try may be remind yourself mid-corner to relax the outside hand on the external handlebar.  Maybe something as simple as opening your hand slightly more than your normal grip.  This can be a reminder to not push, or at least it will draw attention to your outside hand and make you recognize when you are pushing.

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On 7/18/2019 at 2:00 PM, gianco said:

... i'm pushing on external handlebar.

i know is really wrong.

as soon as i realized it, i tryed to release pressure, suddently bike, leaned more and turned more inside the cornering,

but i felt i was"too slow " for that "moment"

Gianco, why do you think that pushing on external handlebar while cornering is wrong?

Some bikes are naturally under-steering, yours may have that tendency for the tires that it is wearing. That means that the front tire will try to under-steer by itself when leaned. By keeping pressure on the external handle, you are compensating for that tendency and keeping everything in balance.  You know exactly how much pressure to keep by feeling the bike balanced while cornering (not falling into the turn or out of it).

Whenever you are "too slow for that moment" or at the ideal cornering speed, the bike is leaning exactly what it needs to lean to keep lateral balance of forces for that particular speed/radius-of-turn combination.

As soon as you released the external pressure that was necessary to compensate for the under-steering tendency of the bike, a small counter-steering happened by itself (the internal handle-grip moved forward some), which leaned the bike excessively for that speed and you immediately felt the bike was falling into the turn (the lateral balance of forces had been ruined).

Remember, we never directly select the lean angle, we only choose speed and radius of turn; then, the bike leans as far as it needs in order to find the lean angle that balances all lateral forces.  By hanging-off we reduce the lean angle of the chassis, but the dynamic lean angle of balance (of the combined center of mass) remains the same for same speed and trajectory of the curve/radius of line.

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14 hours ago, Lnewqban said:

Gianco, why do you think that pushing on external handlebar while cornering is wrong?

Some bikes are naturally under-steering, yours may have that tendency for the tires that it is wearing. That means that the front tire will try to under-steer by itself when leaned. By keeping pressure on the external handle, you are compensating for that tendency and keeping everything in balance.  You know exactly how much pressure to keep by feeling the bike balanced while cornering (not falling into the turn or out of it).

Whenever you are "too slow for that moment" or at the ideal cornering speed, the bike is leaning exactly what it needs to lean to keep lateral balance of forces for that particular speed/radius-of-turn combination.

As soon as you released the external pressure that was necessary to compensate for the under-steering tendency of the bike, a small counter-steering happened by itself (the internal handle-grip moved forward some), which leaned the bike excessively for that speed and you immediately felt the bike was falling into the turn (the lateral balance of forces had been ruined).

Remember, we never directly select the lean angle, we only choose speed and radius of turn; then, the bike leans as far as it needs in order to find the lean angle that balances all lateral forces.  By hanging-off we reduce the lean angle of the chassis, but the dynamic lean angle of balance (of the combined center of mass) remains the same for same speed and trajectory of the curve/radius of line.

mmmhh not sure is like that in my case,

because, i feel like i'm fighting,

on one side with extreme body lean and other side outside bar push,

 

i feel can take same corner same speed without knee down, with less fatigue, less lean, but not pushing in external bar,

 

i feel like fighting my  body against external bar push

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On 7/21/2019 at 4:35 AM, gianco said:

mmmhh not sure is like that in my case,

because, i feel like i'm fighting,

on one side with extreme body lean and other side outside bar push,

 

i feel can take same corner same speed without knee down, with less fatigue, less lean, but not pushing in external bar,

 

i feel like fighting my  body against external bar push

Have you considered giving that a try?

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2 minutes ago, Jaybird180 said:

Have you considered giving that a try?

yes i'll try,

but my need is to undestand in what i'm wrong

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Gianco,

Do you feel the same tension when leaning over very far on a smaller bike (like a 50cc dirtbike) or on a bicycle?

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When you push on the outside bar, do you feel like you are trying to push the bike up out of its lean, or push your body down lower, or are you offsetting pressure on the inside bar (possibly caused by holding yourself up)?

 

IS there something you are trying to PREVENT from happening, by pushing on that outside handlebar?

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