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- Yesterday
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Hi all, what is the best technique to go through very long fast corners. Full throttle and cornering doesn't look like best idea (I would expect something like higher risk of highsider), however I'm still a novice, and maybe with given lean angles and this is not an real issue. To be more concrete please check this video from Most circuit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJjI5ltEFiI there are at lest three such corners - time 0:34, 1:00, 1:27. (This is not my video :-) Thank you.
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I recently picked up a K8 and I'm looking for info on aftermarket mods. The first is chain adjusters. Anyone have some info, experience, or recommendations? I ran across Lightech, but they don't have them for the K8. Of course there's a lot from China, but I'd rather deal and do business with a US based firm.
- Last week
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Just heard from the crew, another excellent day at Barber. I think we ended up with 4 of the 6 days dry, very few issues, and folks glad to be out and on a racetrack!
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Hi Slylos, Like the others, very sorry to hear about this. I got a report on the day, I think yours was the only incident (and glad you are OK). I'd like to follow up with you on this, talk with you, get some more info. I'll email you. Best, Cobie -
I attended Level 1 and crashed - here's what happened
yakaru replied to slylos's topic in School Questions/General Discussion
Sorry to hear about the down. I think Apollo has the core of it, and if your lecturer didn't say to obviously use the brakes if you needed then that does seem to be an oversight. I'll put a clip in at the end from the Superbike UK's level 1 presentation -- should jump to 18:16 -- which is the clearest explanation of 'how' and 'why' to do the drill (including using the brakes if you must). In my experience, the no-brake drill is best approached in a stepwise manner and helps tune entry speed and understanding of slowing from things other than the brakes (tire drag, lean angle, engine braking)... I can say I definitely cover the brakes but don't need to trail brake in for this drill (and a mild brake application mid turn can be done safely -- just be smooth and be open to needing to stand the bike up a bit, and definitely don't be adding brake while you're still trying to bend the bike over further). -
What is your dream track bike?
faffi replied to faffi's topic in School Questions/General Discussion
I don't mind if people want to include all running costs in their fantasy š So which one would rate above the other, then? -
What is your dream track bike?
Apollo replied to faffi's topic in School Questions/General Discussion
Are crash repairs included for free? If repair costs were of no consequence: Honda RC-213V-S. Are motor rebuilds included for free? If so, a Honda NSR250 250GP bike. -
I attended Level 1 and crashed - here's what happened
Apollo replied to slylos's topic in School Questions/General Discussion
Sorry to hear about your crash. Things are always clearer in hindsight. Did you write down your concerns on the end of day questionnaire for the staff? You should definitely raise your concerns with them. I would like to offer my two cents as a random passerby, for what it's worth. Hindsight is always clearer though. If you're coming in too hot, screw the drill for that corner, you should always use the brakes rather than chance it. Ultimately, safety is the #1 priority. There is always the next corner to practice the no brakes drill. Just as an FYI for when you return, the 3/4 no brakes first session does not end at level 1. Although your peers might have said they all use the brakes, I can say that most riders I've seen while cornerworking do follow the no brakes drill for the most part. The issue isn't gear selection, but throttle application on the preceding straight. First session is slow. That being said, I have definitely overcooked a few corners and had to use the brakes. -
So I attended the level 1 school at Barber a couple days ago and during the second track session I low sided. My bike was almost going to be just fine until it hit the grass and flipped, pretty much destroying the poor girl. I wanted to share why I crashed, why I think the exercise of "no brakes" is bad, but also why it's good. Lastly I wanted to share so others can learn from my depressing experience. For starters - I'm 100% fine. Leathers did their job, took all of the abrasion damage and I walked away unscathed, and sad. Here's what happened: I went into turn 5 with too much heat. I committed to not using the brakes since in session 1 I did use some brakes (including trail braking into turn 5 when I came in with too much heat but made the corner unscathed and without any issue) so the only hope I had of slowing was engine braking. Turns out engine braking in 3rd gear on my GSX-S1000 really isn't great. Combined with the downhill at turn 5 I just wasn't going to slow down enough to feel safe. However, my speed actually wasn't the main issue. The main issue is I kept adding lean angle to force my bike on the line I wanted. Note that I didn't need to force this line but for whatever reason I felt like I had to in the moment. I was already at the inside of the corner - I had nearly 5 car lengths of track to my right and nobody around me. I could have let the bike drift some and go a little wide, but in the moment I didn't. That's when the feeler bolt on my left peg started to drag. Ultimately this is what took me down: the feeler bolt caused the rear tire to lift a little and it washed out, causing a low side. Why I think "no brakes" is a bad exercise Turns out I actually don't think it's bad - what I think is bad is the lack of guidance by coaches and instructors on how to actually ride the track with throttle only. I asked around and it turns out nearly everyone was using brakes the entire time. I get the whole idea of being a better judge of corner entry speed, but the moment you're too hot, unless you're already on the brakes you're going to start braking while leaning which is bad. In fact the guidance should be trail brake every corner but with minimal brake pressure just in case you're in too hot. I tried to commit to "no brakes" but that means you just can't make a entry speed mistake or you pay the price. Before you say "you should have known better": remember - coaches that I've paid money to teach me told me to do the exercise with no brakes. They put it entirely on me to know if I needed brakes, but am I not a student there to learn? Before you say "well that's why they don't teach beginners", just know that there were multiple people there who didn't even understand what counter steering is. If you got your motorcycle license in nearly any state, you understand counter steering. So I don't buy the "we don't teach beginners" argument. Why I think "no brakes" is a good exercise It turns out that removing brakes from the equation lowers the cognitive load while riding and I actually felt freer to just ride and explore the track. Given that lack of brakes was not the main reason I crashed, I still think it's useful for the end goal: judging corner speed and following lines. Taking brakes out of the equation makes the learning process a bit simpler. What I would beg for instructors to do is limit it to 2nd gear only. In 3rd gear I can quite easily hit 120mph. In 4th gear (which they also allowed) I can quite easily hit 135mph. So yes: do the "no brakes" exercise, but 2nd gear only is the right way to do it. The point of the first two exercises is methodology and technique - make it clear there will be more "fun" to be had later in the day (maybe even offer an open session as the last session of the day) but encourage everyone to slow the heck down. Here's a more in depth assessment of what I think went wrong with me: 1. If I had trail braked into turn 5 I would have been fine hands down 2. If I had not tried to force my line and let the bike drift a little I would have been fine. I was on the inside of the turn and had 5 car lengths of track to my right and had no reason to force my line. I had plenty of space and nobody around me and I could have just not leaned so much. In my head it was more important to follow my line but also to not use brakes (because they said so). One major take away is don't force your line with lean, maintain your line with trail braking and throttle control but at all costs allow the bike to use all available space rather than leaning more 3. I *think* I may have had enough time to lean the bike back up a bit after hitting the feeler on my peg. But it happened so fast that it went from touching to wiping out within like 3/4 of a second and I just wasn't ready for it - in fact I assumed I could let the peg keep touching and be fine 4. Part of me wonders if I kept trying to lean after the peg touched and maybe that's what lifted the back tire rather than the peg doing it alone. Although after watching videos like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6XsByRh14I this guy just touched his peg and the back wheel shifted which seems to indicate it really was the peg just grabbing and lifting. Anyway - my final assessment of level 1 is it was worth the money because I did learn things I didn't know before and some important lessons were taught (other than my crash). My caution is that coaching takes very little ownership of your safety so by all means do what YOU think is safe which means when they say "no brakes but 3rd gear" and you're on a liter bike, 2nd gear is probably safer if you actually plan to not use the brakes. Oh and make sure you ignore all the pro racers riding around you attending the same school you are because they'll probably make you do something stupid. Finish the school safely and you'll get plenty of value out of level 1. -
slylos joined the community
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If you could have any track bike in the world, from the classic era to a current MotoGP bike, but it would also be your only track bike, what would you choose?
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Mozza21 joined the community
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JD 2020 joined the community
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Just signed up for the half camp. Waiting for confirmation. Fired up!
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Lenbo joined the community
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Hey 53driver got a couple riders from Crestview here doing the one day class on Monday .
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Great you made it safe. I will be there Tuesday afternoon around 6pm at The Hampton's hotel across the track.
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Well, I made it! Made some "new best friends" in the paddock area. Met Coach Johnny Haynes. Met Keith Code. Let the fun begin! Cheers, Steve
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Heading North! Another Great Adventure starts today!
- Earlier
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I found the other 2 videos entertaining but the first was an example based on sound and camera angle of how much he is on the throttle post apex. It even seemed that during one of those corners it wasnāt a roll-on but that the power instantly went to full and the engine was willing to rev that easily. I know I donāt have the resources to toss into a WSBK motor to be able to do that or able to exploit such equipment but I can take an example from his technique to get a sense of what is possible; I tend to be unwilling to accelerate that hard.
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Iāll take a look at the videos. Thanks.
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Yakaru - I'm sorry as well. I was looking forward to meeting you, but yes, budgets do dictate operations. Maybe I'll get the budget next year to head out to Cali. Cheers!
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Red Baron - this is my first time with CSS, as well on a "super" bike, as well as on a track. Been watching the forecast too. The little pop-ups that Hotfoot describes are so anti-climactic to what I remember from Texas. With these Southeastern storms, you literally wait 10 minutes and the sky is clear again. I think actually having the the partial cloud cover is going to keep us from 'cooking' on the asphalt. When I coach the MSF curricula, I often find myself saying "If it ain't raining, we ain't training." That being said, you will NOT see me challenging the conditions. I made it to 57, and I am going to behave - at least well enough - to make it 75. Let's enjoy this together! Cheers, Steve
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Couldn't get the above video to play so here is a link to it on YouTube: Rea 1 Lap 6 Places Magny-Cours 2018 There is also a brief WSBK video of Rea bolting from 8th to 1st in five corners at the TT Assen circuit last April. His move from 8th to 3rd by the first corner is very impressive. This Assen video allows you to see him in context of the pack. What strikes me about his riding are three things: he is incredibly smooth, precise and takes racing lines that do an excellent job of setting up his passes. Here is the link: Rea 8th to 1st Dutch Round I searched for video footage of the 1977 AMA Grand National Championship round at Sears Point where Kenny Robert's famously went from last to first in four laps. I could not find it, but I did find a wonderful video of the 1979 Silverstone round showing highlights of Robert's battle with Barry Sheene. As you would imagine the video quality is poor given the era but the racing is marvelous nonetheless. It is six minutes in length. Enjoy. 1979 Silverstone - Kenny Roberts versus Barry Sheene As to Jaybird 180's questions ā¦ "Is this possible with consumer level tires?" Consumer tires is a broad term. There are lots of track tires the average consumer can purchase include race slicks. But if by "consumer level" you mean typical street tires then no, not compared to track focused tires. "Is there some type of electronic gadgetry at play here?" Absolutely. WSBK and MotoGP bikes use sensors, software and ECUs to the fullest advantage possible. But great riding and winning still comes down to the skills of the racer. "Or maybe I can get on the gas harder on corner exits?" Speaking for myself - almost always! Dave
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Hereās a video of Jonathan Rea making up 6 places in 1 Lap. I notice how hard heās on the gas and Iām thinking: āsurely heās going to spin the rear tire and highside himselfā but not even close! Is this possible with consumer level tires? Or is there some type of electronic gadgetry at play here? Or maybe I can get on the gas harder on corner exits?
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I am signed for the 2 day course and yes, first time ever on the track on a bike. I do understand the pressure some people put on themselves, but believe me, I have no ego to bruise. If I am not feeling right riding in the rain, I'll sit out the session. No biggie. I want to make it intact for my 60 B'day a few days after. š
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It is very typical at Barber to have the forecast look terrible but actually not have it rain for long at all. It's typical in the area for an afternoon shower come through, in the summer. Trevor watches the radar carefully and manages the time to get as much dry track time as possible (if rain is expected in late afternoon he will run shorter breaks between rides, etc. to get as much dry riding time as possible in case the rain arrives before 5pm). Often at Barber we can complete our whole day before the late afternoon rain arrives. I go to Barber every year, and every year I think the forecast looks terrible but then most days we either don't get rain until the very end of the day (often after we are done riding) or it rains just for one session and stops. It IS true that riding in the rain can be a fantastic learning experience! Imagine what a win it is to turn it from a scary sounding experience into real competence - and confidence -riding in rain! It sounds like you have not ridden with us before, please know what we will NOT push you to ride above your comfort level, and your coach will help you understand what is a reasonable pace in the rain - which really does involve slowing down a whole lot, especially at first. The real key is to not put pressure on YOURSELF to think you have to go fast (raining or not!), we are a school and we want you to start at your comfort level and build up from there. It's almost certain you won't be the only person there on a track for the first time, or on a sportbike for the first time, or - if it is raining - riding in the rain for the first time. Which days are you signed up for?
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Extended forecast appears to suck, rain. I hear it all the time, that is the best time to learn, but no thanks for me. I don't need to add another SR to the first time on the track with a bike. Add to that, being on a rented bike that I don't know, and if you go down is going to be expensive. I've been on a wet track many times before, but on my track car. Driving on a wet track is still pretty scary on 4 wheels, can't imagine on 2. Reasons I avoid riding in the rain. Crossing fingers for a better forecast and a safe event for all.
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Are you the soft of hard type?
Hotfoot replied to faffi's topic in School Questions/General Discussion
Nice! I wish more racing organizations would put effort like that into trophies, those CodeRACE trophies are cool. Most organizations are just using wooden plaques or metal plates now, definitely not fancy enough, relative to the amount effort and money required to get one! (Well, the CA State Championship award was very cool - someone donated their time and MADE the trophies out of donated race parts - sprockets, gears, springs, etc. The one I have looks like modern art, that one is on display in my office!) I recall a friend (and CSS student) getting into racing and when he won his first race he was SO stoked - but the trophy, at the time, was just a round medal, hanging on a ribbon, made to go around your neck. He went to a trophy shop and got a great big four-column trophy made with that medal at the top - I thought that was perfect, much more in keeping with the achievement and his level of enthusiasm about his win. Congrats on your results!
