Body Position During Cornering

[russellbutson]

Question: Body position during cornering.

 

I notice two positions are used:

 

1] The head is directly over the tank (center line of bike) with the body off to one side. In this position the body is on an angle to the bike as it moves around the corner – see pic A1 & A2 (below)

 

2] In the other position the head is down beside the bike and the body is parallel with the bike – see pic B1 & B2

 

The pics aren't perfect but you get the idea.

 

Love to hear your views - see pics B1 & B2 (below)

 

Russell

 

A1 & A2

 

B1 & B2

 

 

if you don't see the pics go here...

[faffi]

It seems that the latter position, with the whole body hanging well to the inside, is the most commonly used today. During the days of the big two-strokes, keeping the torso more upright seemed more typical. Most likely because it increase your chance of catching a highsider. In fact, pushing the bike down MX style and hinging your body in the opposite direction is the best insurance against a highsider position wise. If you hang far to the inside when the rear tyre lets go, you have a long way to travel and your body will accelerate to motion. If you are already haning the other way, you can instead use your body to counter the highsider.

 

Since highsiders are pretty rare these days, getting more weight to the inside in order to keep the bike as upright as possible for any give cornering speed (usually meaning leaning over the same but going faster) seems more rational.

[Bullet]

It seems that the latter position, with the whole body hanging well to the inside, is the most commonly used today. During the days of the big two-strokes, keeping the torso more upright seemed more typical. Most likely because it increase your chance of catching a highsider. In fact, pushing the bike down MX style and hinging your body in the opposite direction is the best insurance against a highsider position wise. If you hang far to the inside when the rear tyre lets go, you have a long way to travel and your body will accelerate to motion. If you are already haning the other way, you can instead use your body to counter the highsider.

 

Since highsiders are pretty rare these days, getting more weight to the inside in order to keep the bike as upright as possible for any give cornering speed (usually meaning leaning over the same but going faster) seems more rational.

 

I agree with your later paragraph, I think there are some misconceptions about your earlier comments. Highsides are less common now because of electronics (mainly), chassis and tyre improvements, little else. Being crossed up on the bike would make little difference in someone's ability to save a highside in my opinion. Saving a highside is a lottery, and riders chances of staying on and being able to react are minimal I'm afraid once it goes. Hence why you hardly ever see anyone save one.

 

I think style has evolved now to what it is because most people would concede of the benefits of stability, feedback and angle improvements (i.e. less lean required for same speed) that are achieved from using the newer style. I like to think it's come from development, learning and it's pretty much the defacto way of riding. There are variations in style, personal preferences, but it's the way to go for sure.

 

Bullet

[faffi]

Actually, the highsides came as a result of the tyres being better than the chassis, so that they would let go very suddenly without much warning. Adding the abrupt power delivery of the two-strokes, highsiders seemed inevitable.

 

People with far more understanding than me about these things have commented on how various riding positions offer various benefits (or not) with mentioning about the physics involved that make it more likely to save a highsider (which isn't the same as saying it is likely); Cameron, Ienatsch, Roberts and more. And it does make sense if you think about it - if you want to prevent something from rising, would you stand on top of it or laying under it? Or if it was a catapult, do you think you'd be thrown the furthest if you were hanging at the tail end or sitting ahead?

[Bullet]

Actually, the highsides came as a result of the tyres being better than the chassis, so that they would let go very suddenly without much warning. Adding the abrupt power delivery of the two-strokes, highsiders seemed inevitable.

 

People with far more understanding than me about these things have commented on how various riding positions offer various benefits (or not) with mentioning about the physics involved that make it more likely to save a highsider (which isn't the same as saying it is likely); Cameron, Ienatsch, Roberts and more. And it does make sense if you think about it - if you want to prevent something from rising, would you stand on top of it or laying under it? Or if it was a catapult, do you think you'd be thrown the furthest if you were hanging at the tail end or sitting ahead?

 

A highside is caused by the tyre initally gripping, then sliding (loosing traction), then suddenly re-gaining that traction, and the resultant inital loading of the suspension, unloading, then massive transfer of energy as the grip is re-gained again. We're talking about big forces here lest we not forget, which the resultant loading energy being transferred back through the bike as the spring uncompresses after that weight transfer. Most riders that get into this situation are fired completely out of the seat over the bike, and I can't see how any body position changes would ever help with this myself.

 

Your only chances are unbelievable feel for traction/throttle control, or great traction control that can gently stop this massive overwhelming of the tyre and then resultant re-gain of that grip. I do totally agree the abrupt power of a 2 stroke over a 4 stroke would compound this issue, but body position makes next to no difference on saving a highside except for being better locked on and more stable on the bike to get better feel in the first instance. (See StuMan's thread on traction for more thoughts on this nugget).

 

Bullet

[russellbutson]

Thanks everyone for the replies - From what you are saying option B is better.

[stuman]

Hey Russell, welcome to the forum.

 

I moved your two topics to this forum as it is more appropriate for these types of questions. The "School Questions" forum is for questions about the school and this one for questions about riding in general.

 

Also you might try the search feature, Body position and counter steering have been discussed here many times and there is a wealth of information about these topics on some of the pst threads.

[faffi]

A highside is caused by the tyre initally gripping, then sliding (loosing traction), then suddenly re-gaining that traction, and the resultant inital loading of the suspension, unloading, then massive transfer of energy as the grip is re-gained again. We're talking about big forces here lest we not forget, which the resultant loading energy being transferred back through the bike as the spring uncompresses after that weight transfer.

 

Bullet

 

Absolutely. And when you have lots of grip on a chassis that lacks rigidity and suspension that lacks proper damping, it gets much worse, unfortunately. Something many a flying rider has had to learn the hard way

 

I have survived two high sides; one violent, one much kinder. The kind one happened after a long day on the road in the rain on a cold day - the snow literally melted in front of us as we went. Every time we stopped, people told us the road had been white an hour earlier. We rode mostly in slush or just lots of standing water.

 

Anyway, in the evening all the remains of the snow had gone and I decided - from boredom or a frozen brain, really cannot tell - to just lay my old XS500 down to the muffler around a sharp right hand hairpin. The Michelins gripped fine until just past the apex when a one metre wide "river" of water crossed the road; remains of the melted snow coming down the mountain side. The rear end immediately stepped out until I was at full lock. I chopped the throttle and rapidly placed my inner foot to the ground, the slide stopped and the bike came back on track, just nudging me off the seat.

 

The violent one was on a CB1100F. I was leaned over completely around a lefthander, scraping stands, peg, exhaust and nudging the engine cover, doing about 55 mph. I was in second gear and for whatever stupid reason I just whacked the throttle open. I was sideways instantly (probably in slow motion compared to what we have seen on TV during races, although it was instant for me) but managed to chop the throttle. The rear gripped, compressed the suspension and came back in a wonderful catapultic move. This not only kicked me out of the seat, but into a headstand. I was literally hanging by my fingertips looking backwards, my legs so high I couldn't even spot them. I watched the bike go from side to side underneath me, and by some miracle it was directly below as I landed back onto the seat. Luck and possible the strength from years of doing powerlifting saved the day - skill was not involved.

[Bullet]

A highside is caused by the tyre initally gripping, then sliding (loosing traction), then suddenly re-gaining that traction, and the resultant inital loading of the suspension, unloading, then massive transfer of energy as the grip is re-gained again. We're talking about big forces here lest we not forget, which the resultant loading energy being transferred back through the bike as the spring uncompresses after that weight transfer.

 

Bullet

 

Absolutely. And when you have lots of grip on a chassis that lacks rigidity and suspension that lacks proper damping, it gets much worse, unfortunately. Something many a flying rider has had to learn the hard way

 

I have survived two high sides; one violent, one much kinder. The kind one happened after a long day on the road in the rain on a cold day - the snow literally melted in front of us as we went. Every time we stopped, people told us the road had been white an hour earlier. We rode mostly in slush or just lots of standing water.

 

Anyway, in the evening all the remains of the snow had gone and I decided - from boredom or a frozen brain, really cannot tell - to just lay my old XS500 down to the muffler around a sharp right hand hairpin. The Michelins gripped fine until just past the apex when a one metre wide "river" of water crossed the road; remains of the melted snow coming down the mountain side. The rear end immediately stepped out until I was at full lock. I chopped the throttle and rapidly placed my inner foot to the ground, the slide stopped and the bike came back on track, just nudging me off the seat.

 

The violent one was on a CB1100F. I was leaned over completely around a lefthander, scraping stands, peg, exhaust and nudging the engine cover, doing about 55 mph. I was in second gear and for whatever stupid reason I just whacked the throttle open. I was sideways instantly (probably in slow motion compared to what we have seen on TV during races, although it was instant for me) but managed to chop the throttle. The rear gripped, compressed the suspension and came back in a wonderful catapultic move. This not only kicked me out of the seat, but into a headstand. I was literally hanging by my fingertips looking backwards, my legs so high I couldn't even spot them. I watched the bike go from side to side underneath me, and by some miracle it was directly below as I landed back onto the seat. Luck and possible the strength from years of doing powerlifting saved the day - skill was not involved.

 

I'm suprised you've ever wanted to get back on a bike after that little lot.

 

Ok, so we've got some common agreement on what causes one, so back to the point in question, how would body poisition have affected either of those outcomes either way? As you rightly said, luck saved the day, or perhaps a slightly different plan in the first instance could have avoided either?

 

Bullet

[faffi]

There are times when I afterwards wonder how my brain (doesn't) work Especially when I repeat a former mistake - and knew why and how

 

As to body positioning, I still believe pushing the bike down and keeping your torso high will significantly increase your chance to prevent a highsider to happen in the first place, reduce it's "energy" in the case it does happen, and make it simpler to save by being on the "right" side to have an impact on the forces. If you are already fully hanging off to the inside, there is nothing you can do but follow the bike and be thrown over, whereas the rider hanging the other way can throw himself inwards and in the opposite direction to the force of the upcoming motorcycle.

 

MX riders, AFAIK, use a similar style, again to better control the slides and the slide-grip incidents that takes place all the time. I have never seen anybody who regularly hangs off to the inside of an MX bike, even though it should in theory benefit cornering speed. And to me, not being and MX rider but by observation, it seems much harder to control an "out of control" bike when you are on top of it.

 

I wish I could explain this a bit better, but my lack of English vocabulary holds me back when it comes to some aspects regading the physics etc. involved

[Bullet]

There are times when I afterwards wonder how my brain (doesn't) work Especially when I repeat a former mistake - and knew why and how

 

As to body positioning, I still believe pushing the bike down and keeping your torso high will significantly increase your chance to prevent a highsider to happen in the first place, reduce it's "energy" in the case it does happen, and make it simpler to save by being on the "right" side to have an impact on the forces. If you are already fully hanging off to the inside, there is nothing you can do but follow the bike and be thrown over, whereas the rider hanging the other way can throw himself inwards and in the opposite direction to the force of the upcoming motorcycle.

 

MX riders, AFAIK, use a similar style, again to better control the slides and the slide-grip incidents that takes place all the time. I have never seen anybody who regularly hangs off to the inside of an MX bike, even though it should in theory benefit cornering speed. And to me, not being and MX rider but by observation, it seems much harder to control an "out of control" bike when you are on top of it.

 

I wish I could explain this a bit better, but my lack of English vocabulary holds me back when it comes to some aspects regading the physics etc. involved

 

Ok, making some good progress in thrashing this through here.

 

right, now what we're talking about now if 2 different techniques for different types of riding. Lets adress one at once.

 

With riding a road (style) motorbike, if you get into a highside, you have next to no chance/time to react when you go that far over the edge, (i.e. your into a highside situation). No rider has the time or reaction skill to react to that, at best you can be stable/locked on the bike, not chop throttle (which makes it worse), and hope for a good day. Even if you could throw your weight around, it's still has little to no affect, as the force is from the tyre contact patch through the swing arm/shock linkage, moving your weight higher will make no difference.

 

Right MX riders as you most rightly point out do indeed use this style, they do so for a reason. They have knobblies tyres that can dig into the terrain, search out traction. They also don't from the little experience and understanding I have, have anywhere near the traction levels of a road bike (race bike specifically), so, when the tyre does break loose, it doesn't have the chance to load/unload to any kind of the same levels of forces, i.e. it cannot fire the rider of the higside of the bike. In most cases, if you break traction on a dirt bike, you'd probably be having it just spin around from underneath you (a low side).

 

does that make some sense? You must not mix up the two types/styles of riding, as they're different and require different skillsets totally.

 

Bullet

[khp]

Right MX riders as you most rightly point out do indeed use this style, they do so for a reason. They have knobblies tyres that can dig into the terrain, search out traction. They also don't from the little experience and understanding I have, have anywhere near the traction levels of a road bike (race bike specifically), so, when the tyre does break loose, it doesn't have the chance to load/unload to any kind of the same levels of forces, i.e. it cannot fire the rider of the higside of the bike. In most cases, if you break traction on a dirt bike, you'd probably be having it just spin around from underneath you (a low side).

From what I understand from talking to others and reading a bit about MX riding, the point of pushing the bike down under you is because the surface isn't exactly flat underneath the bike - there are big U-shaped grooves in the turns, and by pushing the bike down, they can better use the "positive camber" provided by the walls of the groove.

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

[richard_m_h]

The sport channel over here has been replaying 500cc motogp's from the early 90's. Its very much position A, head over the tank. Its pretty amazing how things have progressed since then. Valentino et al are elegant in comparison. The old stuff looks like WSB.

Wonder how much of the change is due to Keith's influence or whether its more adapting to the new technology?

[Jasonzilla]

The pics can be summed up pretty easily. On the top two you'll notice that the first one is a trackday rider. He has decent BP for a trackday rider. The second is an old pic, and that's initially how they looked. He probably has tape on his knees. Proper BP progressed to the bottom two. Those are both GP riders, and they have nice, general BP. The best standard BP you'll find, oddly enough, is Rossi. Fantastic. Then you have Pedrosa and Spies, Lazcorse and Shaky. They all have a twist. Leaning farther, elbows out, laying in the side of the bike, etc.

 

With the top two, they're probably not going to be able to get their arms aligned to where we want them today, they definitely can't open their hips to the corner, and can't keep their spine straight. The guy on the upper right definitely isn't getting all his weight over the tank. The trackday rider is probably inconsistent (like myself) and won't be able to get a definite trust in his tires, because the sliding will always feel different. Consistency is the key to gaining true trust in your tires.

 

Byrne (Shakey), by the way, has the worst BP in WSBK. Good rider though.

[faffi]

Ok, making some good progress in thrashing this through here.

 

right, now what we're talking about now if 2 different techniques for different types of riding. Lets adress one at once.

 

With riding a road (style) motorbike, if you get into a highside, you have next to no chance/time to react when you go that far over the edge, (i.e. your into a highside situation). No rider has the time or reaction skill to react to that, at best you can be stable/locked on the bike, not chop throttle (which makes it worse), and hope for a good day. Even if you could throw your weight around, it's still has little to no affect, as the force is from the tyre contact patch through the swing arm/shock linkage, moving your weight higher will make no difference.

 

Right MX riders as you most rightly point out do indeed use this style, they do so for a reason. They have knobblies tyres that can dig into the terrain, search out traction. They also don't from the little experience and understanding I have, have anywhere near the traction levels of a road bike (race bike specifically), so, when the tyre does break loose, it doesn't have the chance to load/unload to any kind of the same levels of forces, i.e. it cannot fire the rider of the higside of the bike. In most cases, if you break traction on a dirt bike, you'd probably be having it just spin around from underneath you (a low side).

 

does that make some sense? You must not mix up the two types/styles of riding, as they're different and require different skillsets totally.

 

Bullet

 

Chopping the throttle - that's an instinct thing I have never been able to eradicate when things happen without warning. If I feel my corner speed is too high, I will stand it up a bit and brake as hard and as long as I need/can before continuing also. I know it's not ideal, but so far I haven't been brought down in these situations, surprisingly enough.

 

When it comes to the two styles needing various riding styles, I agree. But I also think they they both have two wheels and an engine and that many of the same physical laws do apply. That's why I think you have a greater ability to manhandle a motorcycle in an MX position than hanging off to the inside - you can literally grab it by its handlebars and step on its pegs with far greater force should it be needed.

 

I'll try to find one of the written passages from people with much more credibility than this old street rider that more properly describes why leaning out gives you a better chance to save a highsider than leaning in. If nothing else, it should further the discussions

[Bullet]

That's why I think you have a greater ability to manhandle a motorcycle in an MX position than hanging off to the inside - you can literally grab it by its handlebars and step on its pegs with far greater force should it be needed.

 

I'm sure you'll find many other people comment on this one too. It's another myth that it makes a difference standing up and down on the pegs, loading your weight. Negligble benefit again I'm afraid. The only time I think i ever grab on the handlebars is when I'm moving one on it's sidestand, or picking one up of the floor, (never mine obviously.. LOL )

 

Have you ever read TW2 my friend, or know someone that his it? I think you'd find it an interesting, and enlightening experience. Some of your concerns, thoughts comments are addressed in their in some depth. Survival reactions such as you shutting the throttle and braking and what that does to the bike for example are all discussed to enable riders to understand what, why, etc.

 

Bullet

[Bullet]

Thought I'd post some videos on Highsides... for removal of myth.

 

I really liked this one, as it's so slow speed.

 

 

This second one is very good because the picture and sound are so good.

 

 

Now, no-one, not even superman is saving those babies, though they're caused by the same problem, but what is it I wonder..?

 

Bullet

[ozfireblade]

Sounded like they were pinnning the throttle too early and then the rear of the bike slides out

[faffi]

Note body position in the link below. Why would motard riders typically hang their torso slightly to the outside of a corner? Is it for other purposes than to maintain control over the bike? I'm asking, because I really do not know, but it's pretty much how I ride my streetbikes on the road (not the sliding, the upper body position) while sitting still in the seat. On the road, leaning a little out has another benefit that I find highly valuable - I can see much further through a blind corner than what would be the case if I were hanging in.

 

[Bullet]

Note body position in the link below. Why would motard riders typically hang their torso slightly to the outside of a corner? Is it for other purposes than to maintain control over the bike? I'm asking, because I really do not know, but it's pretty much how I ride my streetbikes on the road (not the sliding, the upper body position) while sitting still in the seat. On the road, leaning a little out has another benefit that I find highly valuable - I can see much further through a blind corner than what would be the case if I were hanging in.

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm sorry I cannot view this video when at work, so I'll have to review at a later date.

 

I haven't ever ridden a Supermotard, so I cannot comment on the pros/cons of why you do, or why you don't to be honest. I'd suspect it's a similar reason you don't on a motorcross bike. There is also no ability to hook into the bike and provide any stabilty from legs, etc, etc, so a road style wouldn't work in anyway shape or form anyway.

 

I'd grant you that you leaning the wrong way against the lean may enable you to see a slightly little bit further through a turn, certainly over racing crouch, however, but have you consider the downsides of you leaning against the direction of your bike, what the consequence and pay of for that might be? What do you need more of for the same speed in the turn?

 

Bullet

[Bullet]

Sounded like they were pinnning the throttle too early and then the rear of the bike slides out

 

Throttle related problems anyway for sure my friend in one form or other. No chance to save them though once they're gone though regardless and they're over in a few tenths of a second.

 

Think we've finally got to the point, your body position doesn't cause a highside, nor can you save one from being in the middle of the bike leaned the wrong way, or off the side. Only way is correct throttle application, following the rule, and having that there feel we keep talking about.

 

And rest. God, gonna need a few days rest after this thread.

 

Bullet

[stuman]

One point to consider, Counter leaning or pushing the bike under you (crossed up) creates MORE lean angle. More lean angel = less traction. Less traction = greater chance of loosing the rear and highsiding yourself to the moon. So yeah if you push the bike under you you might stand a better chance of saving a highside, you also stand a MUCH better chance of creating one. Do you want to take that chance? I don't.

 

 

As someone that rides a lot of supermoto and motocross, I can say that when I ride those types of bikes I do push the bike under me in some corners. When I ride MX or flat track I push the bike under me in pretty much every corner. When you have little traction (front or rear) being on top of the bike allows you to handle the bike better when it is sliding around and most importantly allows you to stay upright and recover from FRONT slides which happen all the time in dirt.

 

However on a supermoto you mix the two styles. Faster more sweeping corners you ride roadrace style and hang off the inside of the bike. Slower, tighter corners you push the bike under you.

 

By the way, I also take my inside foot off the peg and stick it out to the side when pushing the bike under me. I also sit as far forward on the bike as I can going into the corners. My point? Some stuff you do on a dirtbike or supermoto is the exact opposite of what you do on a sportbike. Not everything works the same even though they both have two wheels and the same physics apply.

 

 

The advantage of hanging off the inside of the bike is that it allows you to reduce the lean angle of the bike and this allows for more cornering clearance, better traction and higher speed or level of safety. The downside is if the front or rear lets go it is much harder to save, but you decrease that chances of a slide happening in the first place by reducing lean angle.

 

The advantage of pushing the bike under you is that it allows you the create more lean angle in slow corners and this can make the bike turn a tighter arc. Also you are more comfortable when the tires are sliding and it is easier to recover from a slide. The downside is that pushing the bike under you reduces the available traction and cornering clearance.

 

 

 

 

 

All that said, on pavement, on a sportbike (which is what most of us here ride) pushing the bike under you or crossing up is considered poor technique. On a sportbike the speeds are higher, there is more traction available and the advantages of hanging off far out weigh the disadvantages. I think that recommending someone push the bike under them on the street or track because they have a better chance of saving a highside or have a better view is very bad advice and I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would want to argue that case.

 

Just FYI, pushing the bike down while adding throttle on the exit or a corner is a sure recipe for disaster and something we watch for very closely at the school. Crashes due to a rider pushing the bike under them and creating excess lean angle are quite common at track days and schools as well.

 

 

I know of one school that teaches riders to push the bike under them, but they teach it for slow speed parking lot maneuvers and U-turns. It works great because you can push the bike under you and get the bike to turn tighter by creating more lean angle, I use this technique on my Concours when I need to make a real tight turn.

 

 

OK one last point. By pushing the bike under you on a dirt bike or supermoto you do increase your ability to save a highside. One of the main reasons for this is because you can quickly stand up and let the bike move under you. Thing is, on the dirt and on a supermoto the highsides are much smaller and with much less force because the speeds are slower. there is less grip and the bikes don't weigh much. On a sportbike the speed and forces of a highside are far more violent and your chances of saving one by standing up are greatly reduced, even if you do stand up your going to get pitched off. because of the increase grip on pavement and the increased weight of a sportbike, if the backend comes around and then hooks up quickly, your body position is not going to make a bit of difference, your going for a ride that will end pretty abruptly.

[faffi]

The downside is that pushing the bike under you reduces the available traction and cornering clearance.

 

Thank you both for elaborating on those final posts!

 

I am, however, slightly confused about the statement quoted above. Keith Code, I believe, wrote that you get more rubber on the ground the further you lean. Obviously, this will only be true up until a point when you start to roll off the edge of the tyre. But assuming we stay away from the edge, should grip be reduced with more lean?

 

Another thing that I thought was mandatory from a physical point of view, was that the centrifugal forces stay the same regardless of lean for any given speed. That is, if you hang off to reduce lean, you are still putting the same stress as you would with the bike pushed down and the body hanging out. And since the rubber touching the ground is more or less the same, it shouldn't matter anything.

 

That is, until you reach very big amounts of lean. Being a street rider, however, that is usually not a concern of mine. I have no chicken strips on my BT016 rear and about 1/4 in strips on both sides of my BT001 front, meaning there should be plenty left in reserve before the tyres are struggling unless I really start to use a lot of brake of throttle midcorner.

 

Another thing - for me - is that the nicest roads are the ones littered with hairpins. I prefer roads where the speed is generally less than 70 mph, at least around the corners. 30-50mph is the sweet spot. Changing the way I ride would undoubtedly be very beneficial on a track, though.

 

I have tried to follow the more common advice of leaning over the fuel tank, relaxing my arms and shifting my body slightly inwards on street rides. I din't like it, even after sticking with it for a while. My pace was about the same, but it didn't seem natural. I've even tried to hang off a lot, but feel ridiculous. And my torso ends up more like Abe and Doohan did early on, with my head above the switchgear or thereabout.

 

I don't lean drastically outwards, and sometimes I will shift my torso a little inwards because something in a corner can demand or make a change natural. Still, my movements are kept very slight.

 

Sorry, I babble. As you were

[stuman]

Although the tire's contact patch may actually increase in size when you lean a bike over from vertical to horizontal traction is still reduced. This is because the suspension on a motorcycle does not work nearly as well when leaned over as it does when the bike is straight up and down (hence the need to design flex into the frame).

 

 

 

When I refer to pushing the bike under you having an advantage at lower speeds, I mean speeds below what you would normally travel on the street, even in a hairpin. Supermotos race around go-kart tracks and the corners are way to tight for the average car. In the corners where speeds are up above 30mph we hang off roadrace style.

 

I'm not a physics professor and quite frankly discussions of physics don't interest me all that much. But I do believe that even though the centrifugal ( or centrifical, what ever is aplicable) force may be the same, the angle at which the force acts is different.

 

 

As for changing your style, there are many advantages to riding with "proper form" and many disadvantages to pushing the bike under you. Offten learning something new doesn't feel natural and it may take some practice and many times what feels natural can be very wrong.

[MDB929]

Thought I'd post some videos on Highsides... for removal of myth.

 

 

Now, no-one, not even superman is saving those babies, though they're caused by the same problem, but what is it I wonder..?

 

Bullet

I was looking at my YT stats and discovered this thread. In fact I discovered this forum so hello everyone.

 

That's my video from Rockingham last year - I was having a ball and felt really relaxed, so it came as a major surprise to find myself hurtling through the air. Having checked the data logging it appears that on the previous laps I had applied about 18-20% throttle as I exited that corner; the time I fell off, I applied 35%

 

However I have had some correspondence with a coach who watched my video and who has been very helpful in determining what went wrong. Whilst I may have given it too much gas on that particular exit, a lot of the problem stems from the fact that I was going through the corner with a completely closed throttle, so opening it again resulted in a harsh transfer of weight; and also that I am probably hanging on to the bars too much and thereby not allowing the bike to self correct when the rear breaks traction.

 

I'm really looking forward to putting these theories into practice this year...