Leaderboard

Your collection of data and research shows you are barking up the right trees. Here's some more data regarding tires: Per the Dunlop engineers tires grip in 4 ways: 1) Adhesion--the temporary chemical bond between the tire and surface. 2) Keying--the tire deforming and filling in all the nooks and crannies of the asphalt or squishing into the depressions. 3) Abrasion--the tire tearing from itself or wearing away. 4) Hysteresis--the energy storage and return by the rubber and partial conversion to heat. The first two can be looked at as static properties and the last two dynamic properties in my opinion. I'm still learning on all this stuff and when talking to the tire engineers, they don't have all the answers either. Heck, aviation engineers still can't all agree on exactly how a plane flies through the air!

The answer to the question is: from turn-in, off throttle, not trailing the brakes, the bike will slow at the rate of between 3mph to 8mph/sec. Lots of variables of course but that's the quick answer.

I have been told that weighting, or rather pressing down on the outside peg allows you to corner faster and safer, as it encourages you to put your head and shoulder weight, and not your butt, inside the turn (aka: kissing the mirrors), which requires less lean angle in a given turn/curve. (Your upper body weight leaning into the turn replaces some of the bikes weight it would use in the lean, requiring less lean angle on the bike) Ive taken turns where it seems the bike stays almost upright, and I'm able to hug the inside line nicely in the apex of long curves. It helps as well as it puts an outside downward force to the rear tire for stability/traction. I havent been riding a long time, but I have been testing taking turns in this fashion, and it definitely seems to help me.

Hey Dylan, I am sure you get this a lot, but..... Reading the information you put on the board feels like finding clues in mystery novel. Like a real-life Divinci Code deal, only for motorcycle addicts. I am still buzzing with the classroom time on physics, biology, mathematics, psychology, and the riddle of why motorcycles turn. I really appreciate your contributions here.

Hi all, so to make it official I'll lay out the history. Born Oct. 1955, and before my 15th bday, I was lucky enough to buy my first motorcycle, a 1970 DKW 125cc Enduro. So I'm celebrating 50 years of being a motorcyclist! Raced a bit of motocross in the early 70 's, and bought my "real" first street bike around 83/84. Today my daily is a 2004 DL650, and I also have a 1997 VFR750, and a 2000 R1 of which both need work to get them back on the road. I enjoy working on my bikes. I've been a rabid fan of all types of racing, but of course motorcycle (MotoGP, WSBK, AMA, etc.) racing reigns supreme. Life (raising a family) interrupted what I'm sure would have been a grander life on two wheels, if I'had just realized sooner that motorcycles are my passion. But not to wallow in regrets, I'm going to make the most of my golden years by pursuing motorcycle challenges, of which taking a CSS class is one of. I'm a bit afraid that I'll get completely hooked and will not have the time or funds to satisfy my newfound obsession! :-) My profile handle "WHR" stands for Wild Heart Racing. Something I came up with years ago with hopes of someday using it in some fashion related to my passion. My given name is Tom.

I just paid to attend the 2 days training class at Barber on May 27/28 of 2020. I have been riding for many years and still have to ride with confidence coming to a corner. I am turning 60 this year and this course is my gift to myself. Looking forward to learning from everyone and I bring no ego to bruise. I have read the TOTW II book and watched multiple videos and can't wait to make it out to Barber. Hopefully, I will attend the Las Vegas track later in the year for Levels 3/4. See ya'll soon.

One more thing... Since there is no clutch and no shifter, your left side has a lot less to do. I use very little rear brake, so I can literally set my feet and lock my legs in and never need to move anything below the knees, ever. That may sound a little strange, but the bike is very slim, and there is zero engine heat, so you can literally mold yourself into the bike with no discomfort. Add the fact that it is impossible to blow a shift, or be in the wrong gear, and that you always have 100% power on demand....always the 'sweet spot', so you can loft over any rise at a moments notice...well, it's just mesmerizing.

Hi CoffeeFirst. I have two street bikes. A 2014 RnineT, and the 2020 SR/F. The SR/F is the heavier of the two machines, and it feels significantly lighter. The center of gravity is very low and centered, and first thing to contact the ground on either side would be the rider, so no clearance concerns. The 'problem' I have been harping about is that Force=Mass X Velocity. Without the auditory or physical reminders of your speed, and the linear nature of the torque curve it has happened many times that I become aware of the mass of the machine only as I realize I am running out of real estate. It is extremely easy to over-cook a corner. The other concern is tire load. The bike came with Pirelli Rosso IIIs on it, which spec out pretty good, but with under 1,000 miles on them they are melting away pretty fast. I think this is a 2 sets per season bike if it's just ridden on the street, and I would expect to go through a couple sets a season on the track. there is a price to pay for all that mass. So, short answer is that you never notice the weight until you need to slow down, or when you look at your rubber after a hot ride.

Yes, the amount of lean and overall speed from wind resistance would matter a lot. Turn-in rate would matter I suppose but not significantly. Wind resistance going straight requires a certain amount of power just to maintain a particular speed. A hypothetical example is here: 30mph=1hp 60mph=8hp 120mph=60hp 180mph=190hp

Hey Cobie, Just read through this entire thread. Think I have followed this. Lots of great points being made by various folks, but I want to make sure I understand your core points and line of thinking. To recap: 1) Everything starts with the realization there is something to be learned. 2) In order to learn you need to delineate the effectiveness of various ”technologies” connected to what you are trying to learn. Can I infer the term "technologies" to be broadly defined as actual technology, dynamics, solutions, approaches, methods, techniques, etc.? I think about this concept being important so as to ensure you are learning the best solutions, or from the best advice, available at the time. 3) There is a hierarchy of information on the topic you are learning. Not all information on the topic or issue at hand is created equal. You need to focus on the most important information or elements. 4) It is critical you truly understand the information. To your point about "solid understanding of key fundamentals" by the pros. 5) There is a time and place for stepping back and applying critical thinking skills (e.g. back in the pits between sessions evaluating what was/was not working on track and why, and determining what you need to adjust). 6) Practice matters …so things become instinct and matter of course. As very well said by sfdownhill … "train until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong". Anything I am missing in your train of thought? To me this all seems logical. In many respects you could have called this thread "The Learning Journey". To that end, the only thing I would add for those who are looking to race or really focused on reducing lap times, is the concept of leveraging data and analytics to find areas of improvements. For lack of a better term call it "the need for highly effective feedback loops". Now doubt, doing everything above is critical to learning, getting better and can carry you a long way. But I think putting measurement methods in place and analytics to work to help identify improvement opportunities can be powerful (and I think even necessary at the upper echelons of the sport). I think about the 2D sensors and software tools I've seen and how insightful all that can be about where one is leaving time on the table if you will. Dave

Hi again (I think) Joined this forum back in 2012 but didn't know I hadn't posted before. Maybe just looking and searching advice etc. Riding since 1976 but I did my first CSS (1 & 2) with Keith in 1996 at Phillip Island. I did CSS 2 again last month (Dec 2019) and will do L3 sometime this year. Lots has changed, the basics are the same but getting so much older with bad habits creeping in and a general body slowdown I thought I'd do it all again. Great people at the school and lots of fun so I'm looking forward to meeting a few of you there. I'll be at the Phillip Island Classic this weekend and another track day Monday. Cheers.

Cobie, Any thoughts about coming to Mexico? I have done a bit of racing as well as some track days here Guadalajara Leon etc a few of the tracks, got the itch after 20 years since afm wera ama days. There is quite a big market here and growing. I know a few guys that have gone to the USA to take CSS school, but for many they are unable to even get a visa. Just curious. Cheers Jonas

Probably, yes. Most trackday organizations require first time track riders to go through some sort of school or orientation to cover track etiquette - how to enter and exit the track, what the flags mean, etc. If they do not have a new rider school of some sort, then yes getting some instruction is probably a good idea, to help you find your way around the track, get a sense of the lines and appropriate entry speeds for corners.

A few of the key coaches (including the Chief Riding Coach UK) are keen and working full steam to bring a licensed California Superbike School back to Europe/Middle East, with Keith's endorsement. They've been very hard at work on this, as you can imagine, it's quite a task. We'll keep you informed as things are finalized.

Keith asked me to add a little more info about grip: The point on max grip is another many faceted process. Due to the slip angle tires never do have 100% mechanical grip, they actually are sliding. That is a prophylactic process as it cleans the spent rubber off the tire's surface but is ALWAYS happening, in every corner. It's sometimes overlooked in the traction arguments. In the end it's more to less, less to more SLIDE rather than more to less, less to more traction. Maybe that's just another way of looking at the same issue.

I should also add that no amount of suspension adjustment will overcome bad technique. However, good technical knowledge will help a rider make the most of any bike. For example, we have had lots of riders (Joe Roberts included) come out to CodeRACE and run incredibly fast laptimes on the standard settings on the school bikes. And, when Keith Code decides to ride, he just jumps on whatever school bike happens to be available and shows us ALL how it's done.

It sounds to me as though you might not be taking into account how suspension affects tire grip. Are you, for example, assuming a completely rigid connection between the wheel and motorcycle, with no suspension action and a non-deformable tire? Are you assuming that the grip of tire to pavement is constant, and is at the theoretical maximum friction of rubber to asphalt? There is more grip available when the bike is upright because the suspension is more effective at keeping the tire consistently in contact with the pavement. There is a theoretical maximum friction that you can calculate but in real-world riding, the pavement is not perfectly flat or perfectly consistent so the theoretical grip (calculated from formulas, with assumptions and simplifications made - usually a LOT of them) is NOT the same as actual real-life grip. Does it make sense to you, in your actual riding experience, that you have more grip when the bike is more upright than when you are at maximum lean angle? If so, does it follow that as you stand the bike up, you HAVE more grip available, so that even though you were at the max (for that lean angle) a millisecond before, you now have MORE grip available because the bike is coming up, and any tiny slide that would have begun from the countersteering effort would be halted by that additional grip? One must be very careful when attempted to use physics formulas to calculate grip. There are MANY factors that are ignored, assumed constant, or simplified in order to make formulas or concepts easier to understand, but trying to apply theories that don't take into accounts the LARGE number of variables present in real-world riding can lead to some confusions. You can find numerous examples on this board.

Ha, 27 in a 60 year old body...I don't think I made it past about 18 in my emotional development...that or I've been in my mid-life crisis for about 30 years CF

Hi gang! I'm Roberts, a 27 year old enthusiast trapped in a 60 year old body. It's not my fault. I blame it on time. with 40+ years of street and off-road riding, I was not surprised to find out I have a lot of flaws. What does surprise is how hard it is to overcome dangerous habits. It's my hope that work with CSS and crew, and inputs from all of you, will help me to fix my problems before they 'fix' me.

I am not a physicist (actually a chemist) so correct me if I am wrong .. weighting the inside or the outside peg DOES NOT change your body's CG and hence cannot change the overall(bike+rider) CG of the bike