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slobdog

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Posts posted by slobdog

  1. I think you missed my point. When hanging off and going too slow, the bike was completely vertical in the corner. It was only till I started trusting that hanging off will allow for more cornering speed, where I increased my speed during the corner and that's when hanging off body position felt very comfortable. Without the centrifugal force of a high speed corner, hanging off is a bit awkward... Try it sometime :)

     

    I understood fine :)

     

    And no I don't ever feel awkward when hanging off! I used to sometiimes, but not after undertaking level 3 of the CSS school. Maybe I'm wrong with my suspicion, but please humour me and answer my three questions ;o)

  2. The biggest difference he made was my feet position. although I had the balls of my feet on the pegs, they were too close to the bike. He had me pretty much put my feet on the very outside of the peg. That allowed my legs to twist easier so I can move my body.

     

    The 2nd thing was to sit a bit farther back. Because I am so new and timid, I was riding all the way forward to the tank. That also disabled me from moving my upper body.

     

    The third thing is the upper body position. Just like you guys mentioned - I feel like i'm hanging off, but from pictures and video - it's pathetic.

    The instructor had me make sure my inside elbow is bent, gripping the handlebar almost from the side, and my outside arm is stretched over the tank!!!

     

     

    This sounds good and it's amazing how a good body position can help bring things together

     

    At first it was uncomfortable. I felt unstable.

     

    However, this rings a slight alarm bell. With a good body position you should feel relaxed.

    How tense does your upper body feel when you hang off like this? How are you supporting your weight now that your butt is not planted on the seat? Do you think this could add any unwanted input into your steering?

  3. And then at the end, he clearly has a scary moment, which slows him WAY down - what do you think happened there?

     

     

     

    I'm listening with the sound off (at work :D ) but looking at the speedo needle, he's adding too much throttle while at full lean and I reckon the rear stepped out a little in him and he chopped off.....bike sits up and he gets lucky and just stays on the road.

  4. Ok - so we did it! Pics below. The stand works brilliantly. Once the axle bar is in place, there's a pin that goes in to prevent it pulling out. The bike is then totally stable and can easily be slid into position.

     

    Sliding the stand under the rear wheel is a little more tricky and I needed to get 2 helpful people to assist. One to hold the bike and front brake/bike, the other to slot the stand under the rear wheel, while I levered the rear wheel up with a bit of wood. Once that obstacle was cleared and the pin in place, we just slid the stand into position and secured it in place with 3 T-bar bolts, which screw into 3 plate metal captives, which we had riveted to the chassis.

     

    The small van size is a real pain, as the stand would be a 1 - man operation, if there were space to simply roll into (as on a trailer). I'll keep bugging my boss for a bigger van!

     

    B)

     

    post-14359-0-73295600-1303836161_thumb.jpg

     

    post-14359-0-17202100-1303836168_thumb.jpg

  5. If I am already at an appropriate speed for a corner, and I am maintaining that speed as I turn in, is there any reason I need to be OFF the throttle?

     

    For example, two bikers approach a corner. Biker A sets his speed early, he's going 60 mph 20 feet before the turn point and when he reaches his turn point, he maintains a steady throttle and tips it in. Biker B is going 65mph 20 feet before the turn point and is still on the brakes. He manages to reach the turn point at 60 mph and tips in off the throttle and off the brakes.

     

    Clearly biker A has less drama, but does either bike have a handling or safety advantage and why?

     

    I love this question and will be very keen to find out what the more experienced think......The comparison is coasting into the corner, or timing everything to be be 'off' coincident to 'tippng in'.

     

    I'll have a bash, which will no doubt be misplaced :lol:

     

    I think biker A will for sure will have a comparatively relaxed time, but will perhaps not be realising his 'optimum' (assuming he wants to get around around a track as fast as possible).

     

    If biker B applied his brakes progressively, he shouldn't be making any abrupt movements and load will transfer to the front smoothly, keeping the front loaded, but not bottomed out. This weight will allow the bike to turn quicker and he spends less time at full lean angle.

     

    So, extending that to a logical conclusion, Biker B should be able to achieve a higher entry speed through his approach?

     

    Who has the higher safety margin - Biker A - because he isn't trying to time things so precisely and can chill out and ensure he is totally smooth.....

     

    Hmmm.... so.maybe I'm totally wrong <_<

  6. As an opposing view:

     

    I am a fan of the ratchet straps and I primarily use the inner lower triple clamp to secure the bike against the interior of my van (wall and cabin). Yes, I could probably blow a fork seal this way but I've done it this way for the last 8 years and never had a problem.

     

    As for the ratchets, I switched to them after having a bike almost fall over using a non-ratchet strap. I ditched all my non-ratchet straps after that and never looked back.

     

    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

     

    The handle bar straps I have borrowed do actually tighten with ratchets. We do have loads of ratchet straps of all different sizes though, so a triple clamp approach is possible.....Will perhaps need an experiment to see which feels most secure.

  7. Wow guys, cheers for the superb answers!

     

    I think we can make our own version of the strapless stand in time. Maybe not in time for saturday though.

     

    I managed to borrow some handle bar straps from a friend, no idea what make they are.....but he said they worked fine with his old bikes (R6 and Gixxer 6) and bike trailer. I'll head the warning and go easy on the tightening, I guess just enough to put a light load on the suspension is required?

     

    I should be able to modify the van to wedge the front wheel so it holds the bike vertical, plus a chock behind bolted to the floor.

     

    Then for the rear, I'll fashion a bracket to secure a D link into the pillion peg mount points. (Again going easy on the strap pressure). I'm thnking of a crude version of these....

     

    http://www.satoracing.com/cbr600rr09racinghooks.htm

     

    Does that sound sensible? I suppose one good point about having a cramped van space, also full of my bike gear/stand/toolbox is that the bike can't actually topple all the way over!

     

    Thanks so much guys.

  8. Hi guys,

     

    With my recently converted CBR600rr track bike, I'm left with a new challenge. How to get it to the track, safey and securely..

     

    I have a small van (Vauxhall Combo) which it should just about fit in. This bloke seemed to manage it! click here and scroll down until you see pics

     

    There are several points to strap down to, so I was thinking ratchet straps. The question is where and how? I've read on a few forums that you can buy handle bar straps (canyon dancers I think they're called), but then have also read that they can damage your grips!

     

    So - how does every oneelse do it?

     

    I need to figure something out before saturday - as I'm going to level 4 at silverstone :D

  9. I have come to the conclusion that weighting the inside peg is a bad thing. Mainly because it does this to your boots. I have bought stompgrips (and gone on a diet :lol: ) to help take some load off!

     

    Yes my friend, you have reached a level of riding that few attain. Some people ride for years and not get to this level. You have earned the coveted "Hole In Boot" Badge :D

     

    Cool :D

  10. I would argue that you can quick-turn too fast in the wet - see Keith's comments to someone above about cold tyres. Both situations are reduced grip. You have more or less the same weight (downware force) on the front tyre, but less grip available ergo yes you could slide it if you're brutal enough.

     

    Here is how I'm thinking about it in my mind:

     

    (BTW I ended up writing a lot, so if you want a cut to the chase questions, it is this -

     

    CUT TO CHASE - Q1. Does the action of quick turning load your bike suspension? Or is the loading a result of lean/camber angle, corner speed and acceleration, with the turning just a rotation force.

     

    Q2. What do you do in the wet?

    a, Turn at a slower/same rate.

    b, Lean less/ the same.

    c, Do neither different and just reduce entry speed?

     

    If you want to read the long rambling version then read on.....

     

    LONG VERSION.....

     

    The wheels of a bike are like any other loaded surface. There are four things that affect sliding resistance:

     

    1. vertical Load (determined by bike / rider weight, and relative distribution over the wheels resultant from body position and any deceleration or acceleration)

     

    2. Uplift forces which result from either

    (i) surface bumps

    (ii) surface water

     

    3. A co-efficient at the surface /wheel interface. This may be made up of 2 components.

    (i) tyre suface adhesion/friction (variable dependent upon temperature)

    (ii) Debries / oil / other surface defects (which clearly varies)

     

    4. 'Clean' Track surface friction

     

    All the above can be summed up by:

     

    Resistance = ((Load - Uplift) * (interface co-efficent * (the tangent of clean track surface friction angle))

     

    So when we go around a corner we have a horizontal (sliding) force applied through the tyres which is a result of:

     

    ((Bike + rider weight) * (Speed) * (acceleration) * (tangent of resultant reaction angle,which is dependant upon lean angle, the tyre surface adhesion/friction and any corner camber)

     

    As long as sliding resistance is at least equal to sliding force we have no problem.

     

    So in the wet we have an uplift force to reduce load and a reduced interface co-efficient (due to colder tyres). The reduced interace co-efficent will both reduce resistance and also apply an increased horizontal force.

     

    But (at the moment.....awaiting correction! :P ) I am standing by the comment that this would principally be controlled by a reduced lean angle, or some other means of reducing the horizontal force, and not rate of turning.....

     

    This is because I am thinking that the action of turning has a rotation around the point where the tyre meets the track. So if the tyre contact point is a pivot point and the turning action is solely rotational, it can not, by this definition, add any further horizontal force.

     

    This is why I came to the conclusion that the rate of angle change is not important in isolation. It is the the sum total of imposed sliding forces that control this, and reduced lean angle (or reduced entry speed) is one way of restoring it.

     

    So the long question is really no different from the 'Cut to the Chase ones - 'how much, if at all, does turn rate affect the horizontal/sliding force' and why?

     

    Sorry for rambling - this is bugging me! <_<

  11. Ok so I've been thinking about quick turning and front end grip. I'm a civil engineer by trade, so have been applying some of my trade knowlege to my though process - this is what I have come up with.

     

    Putting VERTICAL load on the front wheel is good for front end grip. Principally more vertical load *has* to result in more grip........but, because the bike is also leant over, there is also a horizontal component to this and the more you lean the more the resultant force transfers from vertical to horizontal. This would move you towards a sliding condition.

     

    So back to my query on whether itis possible to quick turn too fast....(assuming no rain/bad surface/tyre issues) I would say no, if you are decelerating with weight over the front i.e. hanging off properly. This is because the deceleration causes vertical force to increase and horizontal force to reduce. If you turn rapidly then this permits the sudden increase in horizontal force to be accomodated due to the vertical force still being high. You finish turning and then accelerate as you pick the bike up (load transfers to the rear and vertical load reduces on the front, but this is now ok, because the ever reducing lean angle also reduces the horizontal componant.

     

    Conclusion - I am currently turning to slowly and need to change this!

    I only get away with is because my lower speed (and smooth riding - HAH!) keeps me away from the limit of my tyre grip. If I start going faster my slow turning WILL eventually bite me in the backside.

     

    Without trail braking, you can't quick turn too fast - wet or dry. In the wet an uplift component is added, effectively subtracting from the vertical force. So to get around this you don't actually turn slower, you just don't lean as much. (All things being equal, the turning will actully be over quicker, because you aren't flicking the bike as far!

     

    Am I right here, or have I missed something? Perhaps you would be a lot more careful with the brakes in the wet, because front wheel braking whilst tipped over would dynamically load the front and at high lean angles would contribute more dynamic horizontal componant than vertical.......I only put this on as afterthought because I don't really trail brake much, if at all.

  12. I'm have similar confusions to Acebobby's reply.

     

    I also learnt the quick turn on a wet day and (for levels 1 & 2 anyway) embraced it with a passion. In fact my L2 coach pointed I was quick turning too aggresively (this was in the dry BTW), so I tried to tone it down.

     

    Following Level 2, I was happy to quick turn and everything was great until I had 2 front end low sides, which I have put to bed in my mind as being due to a combo of cold tyres, not using my legs properly and it being wet. That's all well and good, but there is still this nagging about quick turning and just how aggresive to be.

     

    I also saw that part of the TOTW2 DVD and that confused me further.

     

    I also recall reading some posts on here that, with warm tyres and dry conditions you actually can't quick turn at a rate fast enough to overcome the front wheel friction - is that right, or an over simplification? Assuming your body weight is already over the front and your off the throttle, I guess I could buy into that......putting it into practice is a bit more worrying for me. Something for my Level 4 coach next year :P

  13. tongue.gif

    Congratulation slobdog for your accomplisment. Practice makes perfect my friend.

    I do not know if it's all the tracks in UK, But not headlights, rear breake, etc. taped.

    Here in the States you have to tape your head lights, tail lights, turn signals, we have to

    take the mirrors off. etc. Do you have to disconnect the lights in order to get on the tracks.

    Just curious. Keep it up. Regards from the States.

    The razor.

     

    Hey Razor, thanks will defo keep it up B)

     

    Most of the UK track day organisers recommnend you tape lights/mirrors/speedos up in their small print, however, when you actually get there none insist on removal / disconnection. Well, none I've been to anyway.

     

    I just fold my mirrors in, some people do ride with their mirrors in 'normal position', but I'd find that distracting.

     

    CSS schools are different, they always tape up the speedo and mirrors of road bikes. Not the brake lights or anything else though.

  14. Ok so the photos of my 'knee down' day are on line. There is a gallery from before my level 3 day and the one after, which shows the changes.

     

     

    Before L3

     

    After L3

     

    No pictures of my kneedown - :( ah well, will have to give the photographer more opportunity next time!

     

    To my poorly trained eye I would say the biggest difference is in my body position, it's less 'desperate' looking in the after pictures. The next biggest difference is confidence - I'm happier to relax and go with the bike, which results in more lean angle..... :D

  15. ] Wish I'd been there to see it,

     

    haha - I actually thought I wish bullet had been following me for that one ;)

     

    When the photos go up on line, I'll put a link up so you can see have a look - hopefully there are some flattering ones :P

     

    What would be the most interesting is; I was at donny about 3 weeks before I attended the level 3 too, same photographer, so it will be a good before and after comparison of your coaching :)

  16. I did level 3 in the UK (sileverstone stowe) on 11th Sept and all I can say is.....thank you very much!

     

    I went into the day with a few issues (well 3 main riding ones as it turned out!). My confidence was on the floor having recently experienced two front end low sides, one on track, one road, both on left handers.

     

    I explained this to my coach (Bullet) at the start of the day and he said - no problem, take it steady and we'll see what we can do......

     

    Level 3 in general was a revelation. I finally learnt how to transfer my weight around the bike properly - the hip flick drill just brough it all home.

     

    It was bullet's coaching that really made it come together on track (including a slap around the back of the head - which I needed!)

     

    Anyway I left the day with solutions to my issues, which were:

    1. Hanging off wayyyyyyy too much;

    2. Gassing wayyyyyy too much/early on tight turns;

    3. Weight transfer in chicanes (i.e. hip flick).

     

    So I had a lot to think about on my next track day, which was at donington 2 dyas ago. I just concentrated on body position and smooth moving about the bike....and not gassing too early!.....didn't really think about my kneedown obsession which has been plauging me for months.

     

    and then it happened......kneedown!!!!

     

    First at Macleans, then redgate, then again and again......

     

    How happy am I now!

     

    Besides the magic kneedown, I was mainly delighted that I felt stable amd smooth! Much to work on still - all too aware of that!

     

     

    Thanks Bullet and thanks CSS. See you at level 4 next year B)

  17. sounds like you enjoyed the day, i am going to Rockingham in july and really looking forward to it.

    is it a good track?

     

    I thought it was a good track, lots of corners and only one straight as such, so good for practising. I was my first time on a track though, so my opinion of a good one is rather limited!

     

    I just booked my level 2 for june 10th, a bit soon really, but there are hardly any places left this year!

     

    Right, it's a beautiful day so I'm off for a ride. :)

  18. Well. Was a horrible ride down - poured it down for most of the journey - little fun there.

     

    But arrived to only a light drizzle. Was a brilliant day and really learnt a lot. The wet weather and seeing 2 of the level 4's come off in the first session made everyone in my level 1 group very gentle with the throttle! But as the day went on and we built on the drills, the pace picked up and I have to say I really didn't understand what I was doing to my bike before this course - and I can't say I'm anything like an expert now, but by the last lap on the nearly dried out track I was flying (compared to earlier) and STABLE! Most importantly I completely got rid of the 'chicken strips' on my tyres (as my track instructor Matthew called then).

     

    Superb course and I'm about to book my level 2, for as soon as I can!

  19. Hi,

     

    I'm trying to find out if there's a number to contact re the UK school at Rockingham tomorrow - I tried the general number listed on the web page but no answer (it is a bank holiday after all).

     

    Problem is there has been a severe weather warning for heavy rain listed on the met office website for the Leicester/Corby area and I'm not sure what the procedure is. Do we just turn up and hope for the best? I guess so as it would be very difficult for the organisers to call the weather situation until tomorrow morning?

     

    If anyone can shed any light, then that would be great.

     

    I just hope that the weather forecast is wrong!

     

    Link below.

     

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_...t_warnings.html

     

    Cheers Paul

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