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Meat

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Everything posted by Meat

  1. Don; I do not speak for the School and I'm sure that after they wrap up at NJMP today, someone will respond but I will share a perspective. The Superbike School is all training all the time with a wide gap in experience of its students. You could be on track with a student whose lap times vary by 30 seconds or more and they have strick passing rules (6' of separation). Their timing format is set to show to the individual student how their own lap times improved over the course of the day and not in the context of how those times stack up against other student's time or times established for the particular track you're on that day. They will tell you and I will reinforce the notion that it isn't a track day - it is a School and as such, you and all of your classmates will have a specific drill to work on in every session you ride without exception so to be looking at your timer is to be working against your investment in your training. I share this with you from personal experience where I squandered opportunities to learn from them in the past. I would recommend you leave the lap timer at home. You can be railing around VIR with an open track only to come up upon a cluster of five or six less experienced students who are following their coaches at a slower pace then yours...poof! - there goes your lap time. You are allowed to pass, but not in the same mannor allowed in the advanced group with NESBA so you back it down until you're clear of the Hog Pen and you can safely pass on the main straight. Unless you have multiple beacons set, your timer won't give you splits from sections of track without traffic so the times you record will be meaningless. That all said, I can recall that Course Control did allow a beacon to be set up at an event at Watkins Glen a few years ago but after reaching the conclusion I share with you above, we took it down after the second session. YRMV Kevin Don, I do agree with Kevin, especially for level 1 and 2. I am doing the level 3 and 4 at Barber in a couple of weeks and I will be getting my lap times there, but I am not interested in how I do compared to track day lap times, nor against other riders. I am interested in the different techniques and how consistent I am in each session/lesson. I am there to learn some tools/techniques. In order to learn the techniques, I will have lower lap times than usual but I don't care. Faster lap times are in the months after the school. If you can learn and implement all of the techniques they teach you at the school, your first track day after the school, you are a horrifically more gifted rider than I will ever be. BTW: You are going to love the school! I learned so much in my first 2 levels, it was truly amazing. Meat
  2. Racer, I actually really did jump into this thread to find out just what riders meant and how they were weighting their outside peg while hanging off. I just got a bit upset when you attacked me when I was just trying to get you to look at the freebody diagram again. But, just to clarify we do use static freebodies to represent objects that are moving. That is no stretch whatsoever. That is how we design, optimize and substantiate aircraft. I will probably just drop by and read some posts from time to time but try harder to resist posting on this forum. I want to learn, not argue.
  3. When you hang off, the CoG is off-set from the mid-plane of the bike. As I understand it, the overall downward force follows the CoG. Hence, why the bike follows the same line when hanging-off/standing up more. So, the down force does not change. It remains where it was. With the bike more upright this should give the angle of force from your body an "overturning moment" around the z-axis (longitudinal). In any case, one way to get off the inside peg is to lock onto the tank with your outer leg. Yes, when you hang off, it moves the CG to the inside. And yes the resultant force (including moments) all act through the CG of a body (body here means combined mass). No, the downforce can not change in a straight line (line meaning vector) unless you eat a lot of Big Mac's on the way down the straight. The only way the resultant downforce (down to the bike, not to the earth) can change is by changing the direction of the bike. The bike's lean angle is at equilibrium once you make your initial flick and hold it. So, the bike isn't rotating about the longitudinal axis. You don't need to do anything to keep the bike turning, once it is turned. And, the farther the riders body is to the inside, the less weight is on the outside peg. Yes, as I stated putting your knee into the tank will only lessen the force on the outside peg. I need to know how you ADD force to the outside peg.
  4. It's a matter of angular acceleration and centripetal force. Ride faster. It wouldn't appear that you could generate enough centripetal acceleration of the bike and rider about the turning radius to create any significant angular acceleration about the CG (fore/aft axis) to be able to alter your reaction at your outside peg. The overall force in a turn should be very close to the mid-plane of the bike. So the centripetal acceleration (or force if you like) is offsetting the acceleration of gravity...and hence you have a lean angle that is at equilibrium. "It wouldn't appear..."? What does that mean? The fulcrum of the moment arm (if you will) that is the motorcycle is effectively defined by the contact patch(es) of the tires because the motorcycle is essentially a rigid body with no choice in the matter. The limit of that relationship is defined by available traction. What defines your moment arm? Are you a rigid body? Do you have a choice? For the record, my point was that I don't attempt to push on one peg or actively "weight" one peg more than another. That statement speaks to my efforts. Whether that means my "weight" (if you prefer) is perfectly balanced between the two pegs is another matter I suppose. Racer, for the record I am a contracting Aeronautical Engineer (a stress analyst to be exact) and I use terms like "appear" to be nice and tell you that you are incorrect. I am often confused by your perception of physics. I had noticed you finally started using centripetal after you wrongly corrected someone else for using it. Not understanding centripetal acceleration lets me know you really have no clue about engineering and by using little terms like "moment" you intentionally try to misrepresent yourself. To come back and attack me when I was trying to nicely get you to look at your freebody diagram, is rather irritating. There is no resultant moment, that is why the mass (you and the bike) don't flip over because there is nothing to resist the moment. The tires are pinned (can't support a moment) and there is nothing else external to the mass that can resist a moment. Where exactly is your reactionary moment? Sit in the middle of the seat....take your feet off the pegs....turn the bike....where is the force? Right down through the midline of the bike! If you move to the inside (with your feet now on the pegs), the inside peg must increase its reactionary force and the outside peg must decrease its reactionary force.
  5. Fossil....thanks for the info. I only was at Barber for about 6 or 8 laps before my trans broke. I stayed at the Days Inn because they took dogs. Is the Comfort Inn nicer than the Days Inn....and more importantly, is it colder?!! Big Ass Fan Steakhouse......where is it? They don't call me Meat because I eat tofu. I know nothing of the area so thankyou for the info. I may just leave my bike outside . I have my truck so tightly packed that it will take a lot of work to steal my bike. I will probably put my generator inside though. I am so relaxed about the security of my stuff at just about any track, but rather paranoid with my stuff anywhere else.
  6. It's a matter of angular acceleration and centripetal force. Ride faster. It wouldn't appear that you could generate enough centripetal acceleration of the bike and rider about the turning radius to create any significant angular acceleration about the CG (fore/aft axis) to be able to alter your reaction at your outside peg. The overall force in a turn should be very close to the mid-plane of the bike. So the centripetal acceleration (or force if you like) is offsetting the acceleration of gravity...and hence you have a lean angle that is at equilibrium.
  7. "I try to keep my weight evenly distributed between both pegs. Like I'm standing on the pegs crouching down low. I'm told that weighting the inside peg can help intiate a slide. Or that weighting the outsde peg can help control a slide. " Racer, I have never understood the weighting the pegs thing. My weight is on the inside peg because the vast majority of my mass is over my inside peg. I have no ability to weight my outside peg if my mass is over my inside peg. So, for my understanding of physics, if you are hanging off to one side you can not have both pegs equally weighted. It just doesn't balance. Is there something I am missing? I have heard some very skilled riders talking about weighting a certain peg, but I don't see how it can be a function of anything but body position -- mass distribution and the reaction points. Putting your knee into the tank will only reduce your overturning moment (since I have seen you use the term moment), this further reduces the amount of weight you can put on the outside peg. I do not want you to confuse this with arguing with you, because I am not. I just do not understand how it could be physically possible.
  8. Not sure what the school says about weight, but I put the vast majority of my weight (5' 10" - 265 lbs) on my inner peg, so there really is little weight on my butt. It is actually pretty comfortable for me even though I have pretty thick thighs, but maybe the thick thighs make it easier to put so much weight on my inside foot and still feel very comfortable. It took me a little while to get comfortable like that but once I was comfortable, it is great. I also am in better position for the bike to more underneath me in bumps and unintentional brief slides (slip and catch).
  9. Meat: The California Superbike School is a Cornering School, not a Camp Ground Conceriege Service. They travel all over the US starting in the first week in February and go until the first week in December. They bring their School to a drive distance that almost all of us can manage no matter where we live so to be upset because they don't also coordinate our accomodations is simply ridiculous. You can go to other Schools no question but the last time I checked, Kevin Schwanz's School is only at Road Atlanta, Freddie Spencer's School is at either Miller or Las Vegas and the others are either limited in venues or dates. If you want to offer constructive feedback to this forum I would suggest that you focus on the principles of cornering and leave the camping issues for a camping forum. Kevin Kane Wow Kevin, I am merely expecting to be able to drop off my bike at a track. That is my feedback. Why sensationalize it up to the point of Camp Group Concierge Service? Drop bike at track that is all, nothing else. Yes, they travel all over the country, same tracks, and similar dates. I like the freaking school! I expected to be able to drop my bike. Are you still confused? You know, like when you go to a track day or a race, you drop your bike the day before. I still would take the school knowing I can not drop my bike (as I have mentioned before), but adding the convenience of dropping my bike would have been nice. Let's not blow this totally out of proportion.
  10. The only thing I notice in the first pic is that your knee isn't out very far. It looks like your toes will touch just about the same time your knee would. I do scrape my toes from time to time, but that is only after my knee has been dragging and I pulled my knee in. One thing that I was looking for but didn't see was twisting around the tank, resulting in a poor body position. When I first tried to touch me knee down I would strain (like a moron) to get my knee closer to the ground and ended up twisting my hips and actually ending up with my knee farther from the pavement. I stopped trying and it touched. Sorry I couldn't help any more. I will say that when you do touch watch out, those Dainese pucks are about as resilient as butter. I am a little too heavy on my pucks, but I flew through the Dainese pucks.
  11. ha-ha-ha...one factor....ok, that was 3 factors but I was on a roll....or maybe it was a rant.
  12. I know you guys don't know me at all, but if you did, you would know everything that I own that is mechanical, is immaculate. So, that isn't the issue. I only slept with my bike once and it was the 31 degree day and it was really bad in the room in the morning. Racer, you have been to a lot of tracks, why would you put your bike in your room when you can drop it at the track the night before? I am still going to learn a lot at the school and this won't get in the way of learning but I am really so very disappointed in CSS for this. There are various schools to choose from and each person makes their decision on which school based on many factors. CSS is run very well and I like the instructors and format very well, that is but one of the factors in my decision making process. Yes, I would still take the class knowing I can not drop my bike at the track, but I expected a bit more from CSS. Meat
  13. Yep, they are expecting us to sleep with our bikes. I just got this from Whitney at CSS: "You will only be able to drop off your bike while CSS is there setting up. We have no way of knowing exactly when we will be there. It could be any time between 1-7pm. According to Trevor, CSS Course Control, Barber will not let you in unless we are there too. You can leave your bike there after school on 8/23 but it is pretty hard to time it right on 8/22." Thorough disappointment, that is for sure.
  14. I am not bringing the RV if I can't camp at the track. I will just bring the bike in the back of the truck. I may come out Friday, but more than likely I will just leave home early Saturday morning and get a hotel for Saturday night. Shane You must live a bit closer to the track than I do. I am in Greenville, SC...4.5 to 6 hours depending on Atlanta traffic.
  15. Shane, Thanks so much for checking into that and keeping me up to date with the info. So, I guess it is not looking too good for dropping off or camping. Will you have to go to an RV park or what else can you do? I may have to breathe gas vapors all night....along with wife and dog (we leave him in the hotel when at Barber). Not being able to drop a bike off is most uncool since I would think there will be many out of town people with bikes. I feared the worst since no one from the school has responded to neither this thread nor my email to the school.
  16. Now I am worried. I emailed the school and this thread has been on here since last week and I haven't gotten a reply in either place. Surely a school as organized as CSS would allow the same courtesy as every track day org I know of, in allowing students to drop off their bikes at the track the night before.
  17. Shane, I think racer has good advice. I also wanted to add that I noticed when people blew T7 at Road Atlanta, most of them were turning in too early and then had to add lean angle (and scrubbed speed when they should have been adding it) when they should have been straightening the bike up. I attributed part of the problem to the cone placement along with the last 2/3 of the turn being blind. So, they would see the cone and turn in at that point, when they really should have turned in later. And many of the same riders were approaching T7 pretty slowly (braking a bit too early). So, I don't think you are alone with T7 problems at RA. I generally do well at the slow technical corners but I think sphincter cramping limits me on the high speed ones. See you at CSS Barber on 8/23 and 8/24. Look for me. I have a Kawi green 636 with yellow number plates with 636 on them. And it has my nickname, Meat, on the ears (next to windscreen).
  18. Usually we have no problems with the trackday orgs getting in the night before. I will be bringing my RV and camping in the pits, so I hope everything from Barber's standpoint is ran just like any other trackday event. Shane Yea, I have only slept with my bike in the room on my very first out of town track day and that was only because I didn't know you can always drop your bike early. It was 31 degrees outside and when I woke up, with the bike in the room, it wreaked pretty bad.
  19. Wow, that would thoroughly suck and I would be MOST disappointed if that were the situation this year. I sent an email to CSS from their website with the info you gave me. CSS is a very organized and professional operation (that is why I am taking it). I just don't see a respected school like this shitting on its customers before they even get on the track. I am really getting worried now. I figured it was a given that I could drop my bike.
  20. I am attending the school at Barber on 8/23 and 8/24 (Sat & Sun). When can I drop my bike off at the track on the Friday before the school (from what time to what time)?
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