BLSJDS

Thanks Hotfoot - I'll keep my eyes open for it on the schedule .

I use someone else's on-board video to help commit the track pattern to memory (straight, right turn, right turn again, R-L-R chicane, etc) rather than the lines. This way you are not surprised by the direction of / distance to the next turn. Lines are a little trickier to learn beforehand, especially since everyone rides differently. New track = take it easy .

Would love to know this as well. As much as I love Thunderbolt in NJ, if I had the $$, I would love to go to school at a different track and Laguna is on the short list.

To me, that's the way to do it. Having the extra torque down low on the street is very nice and can get you out of trouble a little easier if need be. aslcbr600 - I chose my '08 CBR600RR for the exact reasons you listed. I absolutely love it on the track and am much faster / more comfortable on it than I was on my '03 954RR. I just finished up my 7th (IIRC) Level IV and have yet to come close to max'ing out that bike on the track.

+1 for a 600 on the track, no doubt about it, for all the reasons previously stated. Yes you give up some power on the straights, but who cares about going straight? Keep the rpms up on a 600 and you've got PLENTY of power for most tracks.

To me, those are personal observations, not necessarily what caused his crash (though they certainly could have been contributing factors). 1. Turning in too early - he may have, but that didn't cause the crash. 2. Accelerate in the middle of the corner - as soon as the bike is at the proper lean angle (no more input on the bars), the throttle is rolled on smoothly and continuously throughout the remainder of the turn, so this statement is not correct. 3. No effort to hang off / no effort to extend his knee - it did look like he was at a pretty steep lean angle. If he was able to use less lean angle by getting his upper body pointed properly, the lousy throttle control may not have had such a devastating effect. The knee extension was a non-factor. 4. Not locked onto the bike firmly - it certainly didn't help, but was not the cause. Just my .02

Tough to really tell for sure, but was he adding throttle and lean angle (before the rear stepped out)? Good for him for not chopping the throttle completely and high siding, though his bike certainly looks like it did .

That's a tough one, and I'd really have to take that corner a few times to figure out the best approach for me. Sometimes the map just doesn't do it justice. You may find that you can turn in much earlier, with more speed, in the first part of the turn (from the left side of the track, above the capital "T" in the word "Turn"), apex right above and slightly to the left of where you have the "X", drive out to the left side of the track (almost where you have the last arrow), and then turn it quickly, apex below the "X", and drive out hard. I suck at map illustrations and really didn't do a good job describing it, but hopefully you get the idea. I think Neil and I might be saying the same thing.

I think the improvements in my riding abilities that I've been able to make over the last few years (thanks to the school, of cousre!) far outweigh the bike change. I would love to jump back on my '03 954 now and see if I still struggle as much with body position, quick turns, throttle control, etc.

Interesting topic . I started out on an '03 CBR954RR. It had lots of power (WAY more than I was capable of using at the track), but I was initially comfortable on it. As I started to get faster, I felt like I was fighting with the bike (wheelies, head shake, and I never found a comfortable body position). I always thought it was me and my bad form. Then I did a 2 day camp and spent 2 days on the BMW S1000RR. What a difference. I felt much more comfortable on the bike and the handling was so much better. It was great to be able to recognize the difference and what felt right for me. I sold the 954 and picked up my current bike, an '08 CBR600RR. Fast, light, narrow, handles like it's on rails, and once I installed a set of rear sets, body position felt good. I don't know if my riding style changed, but a bike that is 5 years newer, lighter, LESS powerful, and better suited to my riding position has absolutely helped me become a much faster rider all around. The quick shifter is a boatload of fun, too .

Yup - I live in Monroe and used to street ride quite a bit around here and out towards PA. The last few years, the only riding I've done has been on the track, though. Enjoy CSS at Thunderbolt - it's awesome .

Are you riding the bike to the track, or will you be transporting it there?

Yes - you can safely add lean angle to stay on line in a decreasing radius turn. However, it is NOT safe to add lean angle AND throttle at the same time. Steady (or "maintenance") throttle generally works best on the street in this type of situation when adding lean angle. Depending on the corner, lean angle, amount of correction needed, etc - you could also gently roll off the throttle (but not all the way) and the decrease in speed coupled with the slight weight transfer forward will tighten up your line as well. But it's worth repeating - do not add lean angle AND throttle.

Ha ha ha - YES - only two kids . "In My Humble Opinion", as Hotfoot stated below . Usually IMHO is an abbreviation for "in my humble opinion." You might also see YRMV - "your results may vary." In regards to your earlier question about sliding the tire - yes, you could be at the limit of your tires, but there could be some other factors to check like tire pressure, are you getting the tires sufficiently warmed up, are you loose on the bars, etc.

Those are the initials of my kids - ha ha. My name is Dan .

IMHO, knee dragging is not a technique that you should practice. It comes as a result of performing many other techniques properly; THOSE are the ones to practice .

Congratulations on an awesome bike!!! Enjoy it .

That's the issue right now; they are double, even triple the cost of a gas powered bike. Once the prices come down, I would consider something like that .

I would strongly recommend riding with a coach at your next track day (or better yet, sign up for CSS ) as he/she would be able to help pinpoint and break down any mistakes you are making. One thing is for sure - if you are waiting until you actually initiate the turn to look to your apex RP, you are looking in WAY WAY too late. My last CSS, I spent 2-3 sessions practicing WHEN to look into the corner and HOW LONG to focus on each RP. Per my discussion with my coach, I purposely looked in very late and very early, and varied my focus times on each RP. What I found was that there really wasn't a penalty to looking in too early, so long as my turn in RP was within my field of vision. There was definitely a penalty for looking in too late, as I consistently failed to hit my apex RP. My coach also confirmed that the apex RP was the most important RP of the three (turn in, apex, exit) and that I could focus on it until I KNEW I was going to hit it. What a difference that made! I was able to put the bike exactly where I wanted it. Even if I focused on my apex RP until I was pretty much on it, I was still in good shape when I looked to my exit RP because the bike was EXACTLY where I needed it to be, so there were no "OH SH!T" moments when I looked ahead . Hopefully that makes some sort of sense; if not, please don't hesitate to ask me what the heck I'm talking about. Dan

That's why it is important to learn how to properly quick turn FIRST, and then increase your speed to match your quick turning abilities, not the other way around. There are other skills that assist in the quick turn as well. ALL of the skills taught at CSS are designed to build off of each other. Your speed will increase naturally as a RESULT of executing the techniques properly. Increasing speed without the skillsets is a big no - no. To answer your question - if you head in too fast and turn the bike slowly, you WILL run wide. At that point, the track / traffic will dictate your options, none of which are ideal. If you can get away with adding lean angle WITHOUT throttle, that is an option. So is straightening up the bike, braking, and running off track.

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Good to hear you are getting it sorted out .

Directly from the CSS handbook you receive at the school: "Riders tend to add lean angle and throttle in the second half of turns. This can be the result of a number of different rider errors. The problem that results is crashing. In fact, this is the most common race track crash for newer riders and track day participants. This is a huge safety point." I can only guess what might be causing your issue, but here are some of my thoughts. The bike needs to be turned quickly and accurately to the lean angle that will put you on the line you have chosen. You might be adding lean angle throughout the turn to compensate for being off line. If you are offline, you may not be selecting AND hitting your reference points (turn in, apex, exit), which you stated in point # 2. Every rider will choose somewhat different reference points, but it sounds like yours might be putting you much further off the "race line" than you should be. If you are hitting your apex and then find that you need to add lean angle / tighten up your line to hit your exit reference point (in a fairly standard corner), then your apex may not be ideal. Adding lean angle after the apex generally indicates an issue, as stated above. On a typical exit onto a straight, you should be able to roll on the throttle somewhat aggressively as you straighten up the bike. Sorry for rambling on - hopefully some of it made sense and/or helped. Dan

I suggest these: 1) VIR 2) NOLA 3) Barber Thanks Brad! VIR should be doable for sure .

I don't have experience on many other tracks (the only other two being Pocono in PA & Monticello in NY), but Thunderbolt really seems to have a lot of great qualities. It is appropriate for all skill ranges, forgiving, challenging, and requires the full arsenal of CSS skills . If I can swing it next year, I'd like to try CSS at a different track. Any recommendations?