Jasonzilla

Lorenzo doesn't do it at all.

While you DO need to get the weight down and to the inside, Cobie pretty much covered the big stuff. The GP bikes have MASSIVE lean, but it doesn't require the riders to lean that far off. I thought Marquez would have to change his BP in a big way, but it didn't really take that much adjustment and he's doing well. If you usually lean that far off, you're going to have to hold on some other way. It'll also cause you to tense up and you'll lose focus on things like locking properly into the tank and maintaining good BP. There's also the task of getting back to the other side of the bike if you're doing a switchback, or getting back on the bike if you're going onto a straight. The farther off you are, the more energy you'll have to spend getting back on the bike or over to the other side. I've heard Cobie say a number of times how little he gets off the bike, and I've always taught MAX is half a cheek before it becomes counter-productive. You're talking about comfort but haven't mentioned your times from that day. If they increased, that technique isn't for you. If they improved, you may need to try adjusting your body to get more used to it. If there's no change in times but you become uncomfortable, skip it and go back to what's comfortable. Sometimes that's all you'll get from a new technique; comfort. When getting advice from big named riders, the question to ask yourself is: would I rather have Rossi or his coach teaching me how to ride?

^ I know the guy. There's a video where he drags his helmet through the bowl at Chuckwalla that went viral.

What killed me is people braking down the backside of the track. You can stay on the throttle for a while. NOT while you're doing the no brake drill. I've always liked this video. At 37 seconds they get to the backside and you can see the rider get on it, but he quickly has to back off because of the other riders coming off the throttle.

Someone's already said it: laptimes. The thing is that if it's one guy doing both of these around the same corner, he's more than likely turning at the same speed, so the increased speed and lean angle will end up being faster. I don't see how it wouldn't be.

When you buy a new bike, a lot of people don't think to make it theirs. Just like with a car, adjusting the seat back and forth, the seat back, the steering wheel, radio. On bikes they may change a couple of things, but I know of nobody outside of professional motorcycle racers who adjust the shifter. Mine fits just so I can get my foot under it, and it feels just right. In all fairness, I have little experience with GP shifting and didn't like it. On the other hand, there is a huge corner at Auto Club Speedway between turns 4 and 5 that isn't even counted. I went with a friend that I could stay right with until we got to it. He was able to shift up to 4th at his leisure while I was stuck at redline in 2nd.

If you look at the bikes ahead of him, The Roman Emperor hadn't even gotten to the turn point yet, so I'd say it wasn't a steering input. These guys are still pushing their bikes to the limits in the rain. They lose traction like that pretty frequently in WSBK. I'd say that as soon as the front loses traction, while Max is leaning off the bike the way he is, it's just going to go.

When I attended CSS for the first time, I had the bad habit of adding lean angle AFTER I'd made my steering input and had gotten back on the throttle. Fortunately, I hadn't reached the level where I'd surpassed the sophisticated tires' abilities. It's good they could compensate for my lack of knowledge up to that point. The problem is that if I hadn't attended the school, I would have probably ended up wrecking a number of times without being able to pinpoint why, as is the problem a few people I know are having. Not everyone prioritizes education the same way some of us do. Another thought is the speeds at which riders are being tossed from the bike once we've exceeded the new tolerances this advanced technology is able to compensate for. I'd wager they're much higher. I'm not sure safety equipment has advanced quite as fast as motorcycle technology has.

Also, you have to remember that in a 25 lap race, something as small as 0.2 seconds a lap is 5 seconds in a race.

This is all rider. I'm one of the worst with suspension, as I have a 7 year old bike with stock suspension (fluid and all) that isn't set up properly, and I'm 220 lb. The first one looks/sounds like it happens as soon as he gets back on the throttle, so I'd venture to guess it's a rear slide. The second is probably a trail brake thing as he's just starting to drift out when he goes down, and unless you're braking, it's pretty hard to get the front to wash if you're just turning the bike, unless there's something on the track.

If you're driving distance they let you camp if you have the gear. Gets windy, so you'll have to batten down your tent.

Especially being mid-intermediate group, something spectacular has to be happening to cause so much sliding. I can't remember where I learned it, but suspension could also be playing a part in you feeling like you're sliding. You're used to 20-25 degrees of lean and that's all changing as you progress, as is your sensation of the suspension compressing and extending. If I find it I'll share. The feeling you get as suspension changes while leaned over could feel like the bike is sliding. I've never ridden on race tires. I remember getting almost a year out of a set of tires when I was intermediate, about 8-9 trackdays. I'm mid pack advanced now and can still get 4 trackdays out of a set of Q2's. I've ridden with Cobie Fair, Jason Pridmore and Steve Rapp on tracks with them also riding Q2's, and can assure you I've got a ways to go. Some still prefer the extra few seconds they'll give you. To each his own, but street tires are so much cheaper. I'm also riding a new track in October, and will share notes on what and how I'm doing while studying video. I start studying it way longer than a week out. It may make it so I don't have to watch as much video, but there's no replacement for repetition.

Once you're in second gear you don't need your left hand for anything. I like to hold the map at true north while I'm riding or I get lost. Kind of embarrassing having to stop and ask for directions on a trackday. We've all been there though.

Thank you Hotfoot.

I do exactly what Hotfoot does. I do a large number of laps on the newest video I can find, and I also find a favorite. They're not always the same thing. The newer ones will show you if paint has been added, removed, or if anything else new has popped up. Auto Club has paint all over in a certain section and I checked a real new video to see if it was still there. It was bad video though, so I watched one from 2010 (this was 2011). Also, you can learn if they put out cones, if there are any other markers (like on Chuckwalla you can run to the end of the outside rumble strip and turn on almost every turn for a great starting point). I have a couple of maps. One, obviously, for when I'm on the track and one to take with me that I marked up while I was watching video. I watched so much that I felt right at home after the first couple of sessions, and could start working on brake markers and adjusting points after lunch. Before that it took me a long time, like a couple of trackdays, before I was anywhere near as comfortable on a new track as I was after watching the video. There's SO MUCH to can learn by watching video that I've done it on the last 3 new tracks I've ridden and have started working on a system to do it.

The thing about changing is that change is involved. When I first started using brake markers I slowed a lot and wasn't as comfortable going into corners as I was before. It took a while, but I noticed that I'd changed my visual habits for some reason (as Hotfoot is guiding you towards) instead of just incorporating brake markers. I had to work on getting my head back down the track. It got easier, but what I figured was to pay less attention to my brake markers going into a corner, unless that's what I'm working on for that session. Then it's more than just a point I pass where I get on the brakes. You'll have SR's to re-sort either way, though. I'm very much for brake markers. If you don't have them, then it's not a marker, but a feeling of fear that's telling you when to brake. If you pay attention to where you brake and make that your marker on one corner (I'd say on a straight going to a slower to mid-speed corner because that's where you'll be able to appreciate the difference on a more grand scale) you'll be able to improve it and see how much sooner you started braking than you needed to. It was fear that was dictating your brake point, and when fear is riding the bike, all the SR's are a potential to happen. Don't give up on brake markers. I'd wager on vision, but remember that you're tense and uncomfortable. Even if you HAD a good steering speed, tensing up on the bars could very possibly nullify that particular skill. It could be a multitude of things causing your problem. Sorry I'm so long winded.

That's too bad. The CB looks like a neat little bike. We don't have that. Just from my ZX6 on the track vs my EX on the street, I like the snappy. How's this for a new saying? "An engine with smooth power delivery is for people who need to work on throttle control."

Was it successful? Is it a possibility that it'll happen again next year? If so I'm going to start saving my pennies.

I agree with you on this, hence my comment about "using grip to go as fast as possible around the track". I consider quick-turn to be turning as quickly as you can under ideal conditions. Whenever you cannot use all effort to turn but must hold back because you're braking or the road is slippery, you are no longer quick-turning. Instead, you are modulating. AH! Now this is getting very interesting. That is two riders that feel that "steer as quickly as possible in every turn" does NOT define "quick turn". I took that from Twist II, I feel that it does define it. But, I'm absolutely open to more data, so let's take a look - what other definitions of quick turn can you find? Let's limit the search to Keith's materials, though, since he is the originator of the technique. The rules of turning are: 1. One single steering action per turn 2. As quick as possible Steering rule #1 doesn't apply to quick turning alone, it applies to turning in general. What we're saying is that neither rule of steering applies to quick turning alone, but to turning in general. "As quickly as possible" also applies to each form of turning, making it a general rule, but type of turning specific rule. As a matter of fact, as far as quick turning goes, CSS is more clear and better organized than the book is on quick turning. It's a drill we learn in the school as pertains to the rate of steering. Quickly, as I recall. I'd agree that it is still used in racing at certain times. "Squaring off" a corner to get the bike back up and pass/repass does require a quick turn input. But, as I've stated above, if you do it with someone close behind you, you're screwed because they will come under you.

How much money would he have saved if he went to a riding school versus having to fix that? The good news:TRACK BIKE!

Arguing that every turn made: racing to trackday, beginner to advanced rider, normal cornering to overtaking, increase radius to decrease radius, on a track as being quick turns is extremely redundant, but OK. What you've stated, "steer as quickly as possible in every turn" is correct, but it's not defining quick turning. It's "steering rule #2." It's WAY too vague to apply this to mean what you're saying it does. It could also be a limiting factor in a riders education. Trail braking into a corner can not be considered a "quick turn" for a progressing rider, unless someone is attempting to genericize everything just so it fits into TOTW books. TOTW does cover an amazing amount of material, as I re-read it after every trackday and always manage to learn something new, but it doesn't cover everything. My book is full of notes and clarifications. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but what you're describing is like saying "get me some cereal," while shopping for groceries. What kind? There's hundreds of types. You're trying to fit every turning style and the speed of which it's done into "quick turning," and that's inappropriate for a rider who's trying to expand his/her knowledge.

His other wreck wasn't because of the swingarm. I called him wrecking during practice. He was riding real poorly all weekend. A wreck was inevitable.

Quick turning goes out the window in racing. Trail braking gets you to the apex faster and anyone quick turning during a race would loose the line and be left to go wide just so they don't get in everyones way. Can you imagine if anyone would try going that far out to turn during a race? Not only would you lose your line, but you would never get into rhythm because you'd have two people going under you every turn until you were in last place then you couldn't pass anybody. It'll work at an amateur level, if that's what gets you around the track fast enough, but not once you moved up to the faster guys. The differences in speed during a race aren't enough that you suddenly couldn't quick turn in a corner that you did during practice, or even a track day. If you can quick turn in a certain corner while practicing, you can certainly do it while racing. Professional racers have a few different lines. The important ones here are the qualifying line and the race line. When qualifying, racers do more of a hybrid quick turning and trail braking. With their advanced technology, light bikes and top of the line tires, they're able to trail their bikes in harder and farther than your normal guy can. Trail braking requires slower turning, and that's what you see during racing. You'll also see it during practice and qualifying. The line is more wide during practice and qualifying, but you can obviously see that from AMA to WSBK to Moto GP they never truly quick turn. When racers have a small lead during a race, they switch to their qualifying lines, which are faster than race lines due to them being wider, and that's why they can pull away from the rest of the pack. They're able to switch to the faster qualifying line without having to protect the inside line while the others behind them do. The FEW times a rider taps the back of his bike to get the other rider to follow him and the other rider actually does, it allows them to switch to the qualifying line without having to worry about passing, being passed and fighting and they actually make inroads on the lead rider. During racing, riders need to trail to the apex to keep other riders from getting under them, save for a few corners where they coast. But they all do, so nobody really gains the advantage. One pro racer even said he sometimes finds himself on the gas while he is still braking. In a normal corner, there is no coasting. You can even see when they're done trailing. Watch when a rider goes through a corner. Once they're done trailing into a corner (in which they're still steering the bike and tense on the bars) they want to get that pressure off the bars. How do you do it? I lay on the tank. When they're done giving input and braking is when they lay on the tank. From there they're on the gas. Trail braking is a fine art, but just like everything else, if you do it repeatedly it will get easier. I'm also faster doing my half trail/half quick turn than I was with quick turning alone. There is a corner at Spring Mountain where I found a line that allowed me to trail all the way to the apex, and even when I rode with the advanced riders (new track= intermediate group for me in the beginning), there were only a couple of riders who didn't slow me down going through it. I'm still not that great at it, but it's improving with each trackday.

Sometimes the more expensive helmets are more stiff and transfer the shock to your noggin. There are so many variables to this. Eirik covered it very well. I use Arai because of weight. It's expensive and light. You'll notice a pattern here if you try on a bunch of helmets. I went to Shoei because I loved the Picotte look, but the front pushed into my face. It's not comfortable on me. Went straight back to the Arai. I tried Bell helmets on at Laguna and will look to find one of those cheap online. I usually try on helmets and go home, get online and find them a LOT cheaper than you'll see at the stores.

Quick video. It was an unfamiliar track, and I went into the intermediate group. Unfortunately I spent most of the day making my way through traffic. Right at the beginning, I'm the white leathers and helmet that comes flying around the outside, then the bike with the blue covering the headlights, then I'm the bike just in front that the rider catches at the end of the straight. That's all of me. All are of me making my way through traffic. Pahrump was a pretty nice track, but I should have gone up a group.