faffi

Imagine you are going to participate in a local 600 stock road race on the track of your choice. Which one of these options would you pick? 1. Although you lack the skills, at least yet, to fight even remotely near the front, knowing you have the ultimate 600 perfectly set up right down to the latest and greatest street legal rubber money can buy make you full of glee. 2. Every rider sitting on the exact same material makes for an even playfield, meaning the fastest rider wins. 3. While the others all ride contemporary 600 race replicas, you show up on your 1986 FZ600 - and win the race because your riding is at a different level.

I have consistently ridden above my skill level and/or the road conditions because I loved the imagined ability to control the bike at the limit of adhesion and/or cornering clearance more than I feared the risks. The result has been a multitude of accidents and a significant amount of injuries, some that are lifetime bothers. Now I do not find the same pleasure of riding on the limit, especially when visibility is limited, although I still enjoy throwing sparks every now and then. One weird thing that I have - and do - noticed is that the gentler I ride, the more often I end up in situations that would have been critical if I went fast. Like cars on the wrong side of the road, road blocked by cattle or tractors, oil or gravel on the road, drivers not stopping for crossing traffic etc etc. I would say when I ride very responsibly, there are at least ten times as many potential close calls/accidents than when charging, for whatever reason. But I do find satisfaction in that these incidents no longer represent any serious danger, since my speed is adapted to the conditions instead of based on luck.

Hope your daughter will enjoy the experience when it happens 🤞👌 Pretty much do what I always do* since winter usually means no riding anyway. Now that Spring has just started to indicate it may happen this year as well, there will be less riding than typical, as we are asked to reduce risk whereever we can in order to put a minimum of extra stress on the highly occupied health care system. * I read a lot of magazines related to motorcycles, pester forums, have read a lot on suspension and also experimented quite a bit with setting up my Deauville, watch YouTube for information and entertainment related to bikes. And just day-dreaming about bikes 😁

I found this highly interesting and educational. Suspension springs explained - but by navigating with the arrows on top of the article, you will find tons of extra suspension information. Well worth reading if you want to better understand what keeps your wheels on the ground (or not) http://www.promecha.com.au/springs_advanced.htm

A little longer, even with some tolerable background music

Here is a short video that isn't quite as intense, but will still make most cringe at the risks involved

Plenty of stuff on YouTube as well. I love to watch the open road racing, and I dig one-on-one interviews with some of the riders, but I have limited interest in the scene behind.

I have owned bikes from 50 to 1400 cc, from 2 to 130 hp, from 1 to six cylinders, a few two-strokes but mostly 4-strokes. (I do not care for smokers as they do not have engine braking). What I have found personally, is that small, nimble yet stable bikes with about 30 horses tend to be excellent fun on narrow, winding roads with little traffic. They allow you to go through the gears, using full throttle a lot, and they can change direction oh so quickly and effortlessly if and when needed. They are also not so fun in traffic. Especially going up a 10 % incline, carrying luggage, facing a stiff headwind, trying to keep up with the 70 mph general flow. Then the fun is gone. Doing the same hill with the road to yourself isn't nearly as bothersome. In fact, it could be a real satisfaction that it will do 70 mph at all. Riding bikes with lots of (low-and midrange) power makes riding in traffic much more relaxing. But the narrow, winding lonely roads tend to be less fun when you have extra weight and a big engine. Many of the really fast bikes today will do over 100 mph in first gear. That would put me in jail here, regardless of the road I'm on! The highest speed limit we have is 69 mph / 110 kph. In other words, I cannot legally come close to the redline in any gear on the fastest bikes. Where is the fun in that? My KZ400 was redlined at 103 mph. In sixth gear. Many years ago, one man put an XT600 engine into a TZR125 chassis. Another put a DR800 engine into an RGV250. I think I could have enjoyed something like that: Enough power without being really fast, low enough weight, great handling.

Back in the mid-80s, Kenny Roberts Sr. owned (at least) two street bikes; a Phazer 250 inline four and an FZ400 inline four. He rarely used the latter, finding it just a little bit faster, but not nearly as good handling. He described the 250 to be as close to a race bike as he could come for the street. Also, the limited power (it would still do 120 mph, though) meant he had to be inch perfect and keep the momentum up, simply because he did not have a bunch of power to correct any mistake. In other words, Roberts found the 250 more fun to ride due to it being both easier and more demanding to ride. Easy because it handled well. Demanding because he had to be perfect. All the time. So, what kind of street bike would you choose in order to have fun and, hopefully, become a better rider? And what type of bike is most likely to raise rider skill quickest - big, medium or small? With or without electronic aids?

Thanks for sharing that, Cobie 👍 I noticed that Guintoli repeatedly told about the load on the arms, whereas most tuition say to always keep arms and hands relaxed and leave the forces to the stronger muscles, mostly legs.

Many do so listening to Sex Pistols as well 😁 (I tend to fall quickly to sleep listening to "noisy music" because it relaxes me, while so called "relaxing music" really get on my nerves. In other words, we all differ. Thankfully)

This is why I ride, see video below, as some will already know. No, I cannot ride like that, which is why I prefer narrow unfamiliar winding roads with limited visibility - it gives a similar sensation at a much slower pace. Thankfully, I have eventually matured somewhat, but going back a few years, Nirvana for me was to be able to scrape the undercarriage through every corner on just such an unfamiliar road. Now I am too old and too brittle and too risk focused, but I do miss taking things to my personal limits. Track racing for me is onlyu exiting to watch if there is tight racing going on. I know it takes a lot of skill to race like Rossi & Co, but it is about perfection. Like the Sex Pistols, pure road racing is just raw, without the finesse of perfection. You could say that road racing is carving with a chain saw, whereas track racing is using a precision knife. I suppose most on this board, which is about perfecting techniques - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, mind! - will ignore the video. But those who do take the time to watch it will also be able to enjoy the comments from the race winner as he takes you through the challenges and successes of his final lap of the 2018 race.

From a racer

This video is very interesting (prolly partly because it goes along with my own non-scientific view 😜 but see for yourself)

Thanks for purring this to my attention, s I missed it the first time!

Thank you for the discussions, hope there will be more! I used a time stamped link, but apparently that did not work - sorry for that!

Thank you for taking the time to explain, Mr Code! It appears clear to me that I likely use the brake as my crutch to cover for lack of other skills and/or fear, depending on the situation. I do taper it off, anything else will upset the bike, but as long as I am braking, or at least slowing, I have confidence in the front end as well as the way the bike will behave. (By maintenance throttle, I mean enough throttle to maintain the speed I have, stopping the slowing process, but not yet accelerating.) Probably of absolutely no interest, but this is me riding down a winding road with an 11% decline. No sign of quick turning or early throttle application.

Trivia: Kenny Roberts Sr relied on early braking, early throttle. Barry Sheene relied on braking deep and hard, squaring off the corner. Roberts always meant Sheene's style was high risk, because it is easier to lose the front.

I never learned anything about how to ride when I first took my license in 1980. We had to master tight figure 8s, turn around feet up in a "garage", stop within a certain distance, do a slow and a fast slalom set with cones, plus show we could operate safely in traffic. We were basically told to practice until we mastered everything, but hardly any advice about how to operate the bike. Personally, I used trail braking from the word go without thinking about it, or even knowing it was a term or technique; It just felt natural. Eight years ago, after joining this forum, I set about learning to set my cornering speed early, and it took me nearly two seasons to feel safe doing it. However, I still feel far more comfortable turning in on the brakes, or at least trailing throttle. Even riding slowly. As such, I would much rather brake long, even past the apex, than getting very early on the throttle. Especially around tight bends, where early throttle application tend to make me run wide.

It does seem like Lawson panic and stand the bike up, but perhaps Schwantz leaned on Lawson's front wheel?

Been there, done that. In 1990, I had a CB1100F, the most stable and predictable bike I have ridden. Which was an anomaly for these bikes, as they typically loved to wobble and weave dangerously. Anyway, I soon grew over-confident well above my personal ability, and going around a bend doing about 55 mph, peg and stands scraping, I gave it full throttle in 2nd gear. Unsurprisingly, the rear stepped out to more and less full lock. I shut the throttle, tire bit, suspension compressed and released, catapulting me into the air as the bike began to come back in line. I managed to hang onto the bars, fully upside-down, bike going over the center and back a few times. By shear luck, the seat was right underneath my bum when I came down, allowing me to continue unhurt. That made me do what I had been thinking about for quite some time already; sell it before I hurt somebody. Most likely me.

That puts me in the spot as I am at level 0 😔

If you do all, or the absolute majority of, your braking upright, would that not in most instances require some coasting off the throttle? Or can you go still go directly to maintenance throttle as you initiate, or at least finish, turning in?

Very interesting observations, thanks you for sharing them 😎

There is a 7th group IMHO, and that would be the determined thinkers and innovaters like Mr. Code himself and å number of great racers. They are few and far between, relatively speaking, but they are the ones bringing clarification and taking knowledge to the next level. Good for the rest of us.