johnnyrod

When you're braking you want your weight back to conteract the weight shift caused by braking (just as you sit forward durign accelerating). Fast riding is dynamic though so you'd move from there to your cornering position which as Steve says is probably more to the middle of the seat than one end. The right position depends a bit on your body, you want to lock on to the bike using the tank and outside peg, so obviously if you're 5'2 or 5'11 or Crafar it'll be a different kettle of fish, also whcih bike you're on etc. Anyway the object is to anchor yourself to the bike with your lower body, so you take less weight on your arms, good bend in the elbows to allow you to work the steering easily (straight arms = bad, think of Al Murray drinking a pint) and so your arms don't interfere with the steering. As said, your feet won't steer the bike at all. Ultimately all this is only a guide, otherwise we'd have nothing to talk about here! Not sure if you've looked at CSS in the UK but countersteering is covered in Level 1, and this includes getting you in the right position to do it properly, which is pretty much what we're talking about. Keith's books etc.are good but having Flash make you ride up and down a bit of tarmac a hundred times is much better.

Does the TOTW quote refer to braking before a turn or during? As Keith also says, the engine is not a brake.

Does it feel the same in left adn right corners? Try taking your hands off the bars after closing the throttle, see if it wanders consistently one way. If so then the rear wheel is out of line, which could be after taking it out for a new tyre and replacing it. This will make it feel bad when turning in on one side.

The guys above have it all covered really, just to add that yes some makes have certain shell shapes, e.g. back in the day, Arai were for peopel with heads like Alien (flat sides), and Shoei for Mekons (round). These days that isn't necesarily thte case, e.g. Arai Signet is a new shell shape and is more round (maybe the Signet is obsolete but there will be a replacement model). For everyday stuff, avoid going too race-rep and getting loads of vents. I've got an Arai Chaser (I think) and the extra venting makes it really noisy and actually quite cold in the winter, wish I had know that before I bought it.

I found the fit of 1-piece suits very variable from different manufacturers, you really need to try the stuff on (even more than usual). Great for the track BTW but a massive pain in the ass in the real world.

You're right Yellow Duck, I was going on the presumption that denizens of online fora (or forums as they are usually called) won't (all) understand "apices"

Both these corners teg is talking about can be ridden as a single bend with two apexes, but there's no gap in the middle when the bike's upright (much if at all). At Cadwell it's a complex bend, you can apex only half way across the track in Charlies 1 as you need a wide entry to Charlies 2 in order to get decent drive onto Park Straight. At Rockingham the second left hander is a really wide bend, I find you get out of pifpaf and just accelerate all the way through the next one, if it were on its own you'd enter it a lot faster. If you exit wide from pifpaf you can keep the bike on its side and just carry on through in a really wide arc and carry tons of speed. I'm not sure I fancy shutting the throttle at the midpoint of either of those

This was at my first track day at Rockingham in 2003 (I think). I still don't really know why/how but around lunchtime three guys joined our novice sessions, on police and paramedic Pan Europeans (2 of 1 and 1 of the other, can't remember which way round). In fairness they weren't slow but once the pannier boxes are scraping the tarmac there isn't anywhere else to go! Check this out, I'm on the blue SV: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.12970243828.34821.587378828&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=13352248828&set=a.12970243828.34821.587378828&type=3&theater Hopefully the link works! If not the album is here http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.12970243828.34821.587378828&type=3&l=ba21555b31 PS I'm sure we were talking about this on another thread but I can't find it

I wouldn't try to fall off if I were you, it won't bolster your confidence. This is the basis of what Keith calls Quick Turns, which is actively countersteering and also trying as far as possible to make only one steering input into a bend. This is something that's covered at Level 1 and is a massive boon to many riders, a lot of whom deny countersteering even exists (I kid you not, half the class I was in put their hands up to that question). As part of teaching this, the instructors make sure your position is right, loose arms etc. and teach you how to do it properly. For me it made a big difference, I realised the bike will corner without me messing with it all the time, which by extension means you trust it more. More control = more confidence, in a nutshell.

So far I move my braking (and other) points to go with the increase in speed as I get it together (it takes ages for me to get back up to speed), but not tried to use that to increase entry speed per se. I mainly use engine speed (sound) to judge entry speed but I guess part of the problem is the rate at which you can scrub off speed, and if you trigger an SR then you end braking a bit deeper, enter slower etc. and make a hash of it. During braking the flow of info is fairly rapid and I dont think that vision gives you good enough info on speed while its changing so quickly. To my mind the no-brakes drills are to reduce the number of things you're doing e.g. concentrate on quick turns without also concentrating on brakes/gears etc. The speeds were low enough that your sense of speed doesn't come into it much, although I have heard peoepl say they entered bends faster than they had thought they would if they were riding normally, the mental crutch of the brake being taken away made the same speed feel faster. I'm waiting for the rubbish British weather to stop raining and looking forward to a session at Cadwell. Coppice is a fast left hander, I hit it about 100mph, but I know some people go in about 120-130 knee on deck (which is almost flat out on an SV, I hit about 120-125 before rolling off). There's more ground clearance left, bike feels solid etc., I just need to get into it quicker somehow!

There seem to be a lot of riders faster than me though I could watch a video of some of them and critcise their technique! There are common mistakes people make, one of these is trying to copy lines they see in races, another is sometimes trying to use loads of lean angle in every bend. I reckon these sorts of things are why you're seeing people riding round the inside kerb, and as you say it's hardly an ideal line. I didn't really grasp the idea of the 2-step as separating looking from turning, I think I presumed too much in that this was too obvious to need pointing out to people. That said, Level 1 spends a good deal of time teaching people stuff they ought to know already, but really don't, so in that respect I shoudn't be surprised. Anyway we've been dragged off a bit onto RPs etc. and I am still wondering about an answer to Lnewqban's original question, about judging entry speed on the track. Judging, say, a braking point is one thing, it's a spot on the tarmac or whatever, but how do you "measure" your speed? If you're going to incrementally speed up on each lap, you therefore need to have a handle on how fast you're going.

Interesting point Hotfoot, I guess it was taught to me like that but not quite in those words. More like, look at the first RP, then keep an eye on it with peripheral vsion as you look for the second. Either way round it still means "look where you're going" as at this point in the school, reference points are being used a lot and people can hang on to them too long. You can do it on the road but not always, you might not be able to see very far round the bend, so you then don't have a turn-in point because you don't know where the bend goes. Think of an extreme, following a cliffside or forest road round a tight bend. The first time you figure out where it's going could be when you see it open up. You can't really turn in (across the bend), you can can only really follow around the outside until you can see more. Or you can head for where you think the apex will be and cross your fingers. Wide vision isn't related to the 2-step or RPs, as T says above, except perhaps to say that it could be a way to stop you getting tunnel-vision on your next RP.

Focused Events, £149 I think. Anyone else up for it? Am going to check the weather next week and book last-minute if it is looking good.

Good call khp. Look for RPs, follow the other guys, don't expect to win. At least for a few laps...

The idea of quick-turn oges with a single steering input which inherently means you have one lean angle and it takes very little time to get down there and back up. The slow-turn way means you spend a lot (most?) of the bend incereasing then decreasing lean angle. So if you ride fast and use quick turning (single action/single lean angle) then you don't lean the bike over as far as you would have mid-corner. At the start and end though you might be leaned more than in lazy steering. It's the same with braking, if you brake a little harder from the start then you stop in the same place with less brake pressure than if you brake too gently then have to build up more pressure later on just to get pulled up. Back to the OP: 1. I am still struggling with getting my speed perception right in track so still enter bends too slow. You do get the ride each bend many times though so you can finely tune your speed. 2. Road riding and unfamiliar bends: unless you like hospital food then really you have to sit in the fact that you're not going to be riding at 100%. Equally you can't necessarily apply the 2-step because you need at least one RP, and unless it's a familiar road you'll have none at all. No RPs means we have to take a different approach hence the wider entry for better visibility, and using the vanishing point (in slow out fast, for this reason). You don't need these on a track because you know (learn) where then bend goes and you don't need to see round it, there aren't any cowpats, cars etc. around it. In Level 1, as far as I can remember, RPs are looked at and you experiment by moving your RP deeper into the turn as you increase the turn-in rate once you've got quick turns. In Level 2 this is followed up (RPs) but really we all ride different lines so you haveto choose your own RPs, and also move them as your pace changes or you find better lines. They're an itertive thign though so RPs on an unfamiliar road will be near-impossible on the first ride through.

I didn't see this but from your description, I would say that goes beyond a racing incident into basically barging someone out of the way. From a purely sporting point of view, yes winning is important (the point, after all) but it should also be about being man enough to know that you've been beated squarely instead of trying to be underhand about it.

It sounds like there are a few things going on. You may be able to brake harder than you think, this is not so uncommon. I'd love to tell you how to try it but I'm not that good. Second, as said above if they use a higher speed around turn-in then they're not slowing down as much as you. This is possible by (1) bigger nuts and (2) quick turn-in later than a slow turn-in. Finalyl it sounds like you're braking from a high speed - this means if you don't have a good reference point then a moment's hesitation will see you braking much later (in distance) than usual. The natural reaction to this is to brake a touch earlier to be on the safe side. Have you got reference points for starting and ending braking?

Good stuff there from Hotfoot. I've passed people on the outside but as said, unless you're a lot faster than them, you end up passing them where they are thiking of getting on the gas, so risk being pushed onto the grass before they know you are there. I too ride in intermediates now, they are faster (esp the inline four 600 guys who can work out their gears and exit a corner with more drive) but much mroe predictable. There are also a lot of tools in novices who really just want to spend all day overtaking people. Most TD comapnies say after 3-4 days you're good to go up to inters, and it sounds like you're fairly in the groove, they might not let you book yet though until you have a few more novice days done. You can ask to be moved up on the day once they've had a chance to see you ride. Inside passing, I think they mainly mean entry and mid-corner, these are the places people come unstuck when someone suddenly appears as they are usually doing something fairly aggressive. Worth clarifying though.

Hillarious. I know what you mean euge, I have an SV as well. If you are in the novices then the guys on the inline fours tend to be a gear too high coming out of the bends so you can use the grunt of the SV and take some yards out of them there, to balance out their top end power when they get going. It's possible top pass on the exit or straight if you hang back a little, so that you go through the bend at your own speed and exit faster than them (+ v-twin traction +midrange torque). It's that or you need to pass on the brakes but on track days you have to be early and clear about these moves or they'll jump on you (rightly). Ultimately I tuned mine to 80bhp and this is enough to stay with the 600s etc. on tracks where you go up to about 120mph, in the intermediate groups. It's a battle all the way but when you pass a more powerful bike in a straight line it's worth it!

Cobie also swears by adjusting the padding in your helmet to help your vision, do a search on here for that.

For L1 you don't need rain tyres, street tyres are fine, you won't even need all the grip they have to offer.

They're both simple turns, just one has you turning deeper and tighter (smaller radius) than the other, so mid-corner speed is lower. You can do them both at constant radius i.e. a single steering input.

To be honest it sounds like you were a bit close to him for a track day, though these things happen, it's not an ideal world. Over here they'll often tell you off for passing people on the inside mid-corner as things like this will come about otherwise. I think I'd go for a bit of back brake, not sure TBH

Yep that was me. For L1 I took the Looney Tunes rings and put Keith's face on it. I think this time I'm taking his head and Warholising it a la Monroe. I was wondering if it was you I'd met that day!

Good stuff mate, look out for the noisy blue SV650. I still have to figure out what sort of Ketih Code picture I'm sticking on my numberplate this time!