lukem
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Posts posted by lukem
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What a piece of ###### racetrack.
It's not a race track; it is a road course, like the Isle of Man
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What about Pedrosa's crash at Philip Island? Same thing?
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Everything...I wish I had learnt to ride at waaaaay earlier age.
Way I see it, if my parents has bought me a little trail bike around age 4, you lot would be watching me in Superbikes! Haha. Ok, maybe not.
Seriously, though, I feel there is a certain feeling of invincibility that you lose the older you get,
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I keep two separate binders, one for maintenance/repair/suspension settings info, and another for track notes with reference points and tips recorded for different tracks and days I've ridden.
I have pretty much the same setup!
1 book has tech info. All the clearances from my engine (I since I built it!), carb jetting, suspension settings etc. The other has my race timesheets, track maps and riding notes/reference points. I also keep info on tyre pressures, race day weather and temps in here.
I'd be lost without either, but both for different reasons
Cheers
Luke
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I just thought of something while watching isle of man TT, is it more ideal to carry a higher turn entry speed with more lean angle or slower turn entry speed with less lean angle but more throttle being applied through the turn because you have more contact patch on the tire?
Myself personally I think it depends on the turn, tighter turns would result better from slower entry but more drive and faster turns would result better with a higher turn entry speed. Now what about a double apex turn? I think something like that could go either way?
What if you are trying to pass someone in a race, which one would be more preferred?
which do you think is most important? Fastest in the middle of the turn? Or fastest at the end of the next straight? thinking about these points, is it possible to define?
Bullet
I would think more speed through the turn is most important, you can always brake a little deeper at the end of the next straight instead of relying on how much ground to make up pinning the throttle on the drive out of the corner? I think the other factor would be the layout of the track, if you have really tight turns you can only carry so much speed before running wide or off track so that would make you want to be faster at the end of the next straight.
so, if you've a bike at huge lean angles, (I.e carrying maximum speed possible), how much hard gas can you roll on? Given speed carried off a turn is multiplied down the straight, would it be possible exit of a turn is more key for great laptimes than rushing into the turn as hard as possible?
What do you think given this information? Given the compromise, which would you trade
Bullet
Yep, there are a couple of turns on the TT course where after exiting they won't roll off for miles (out of Creg ny Baa or down cronk-y voddy straight for example). I know from my short circuit racing that every extra kph I can carry out of a turn is carried down the straight and always gives me better lap times. I'm talking about a straight less than 1km in length, let alone 3-4 miles!
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I'm not caught up in the "chicken-strips = wimpy rider" game at all, I promise. I'm almost certain the profile of a performance front tire does allow it, but you certainly have more experience at speed than I do. If you've never worn a front tire edge-to-edge, have you ever pushed the front enough to make it slide?
Haha - sorry dude, that wasn't what I was getting at (I don't buy into that wimpy rider thing either). What I mean is probably best summed up by my old suspension tuner.
"Looking at the the tyres as a gauge for riding is as informative as looking at the stain on the bedsheets to find out how good the night before was!"
I have pushed the front many times and have still not worn to the edge. Even when I lost the front from leaning to far, have I not worn to them to the edge!
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I think looking at chicken strips as a gauge of how much grip you have is a bad idea and will probably end in tears! In all my time riding/racing bikes, I have never worn a front tyre all the way to the edge. I just don't think the profile allows it.
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Ah ok, that makes sense. A little off topic but when it comes to choosing tire warmers, what should you be looking for? There are different brands and different prices.
Yep! Not sure what other brands are out there, but I bought Capit which are a fairly renowned Italian make. They have been faultless for the past 3 years, whereas I know other guys using cheaper warmers have had issues with them shorting out or catching fire.
Chicken Hawk is another brand which I have heard good things about and they are US made, but I have no personal experience of them.
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So basically if you have tire warmers you can just go all out once the flag drops and if you don't have tire warmers then you have to work the tires in each lap and build up the heat. This brings to mind when Rossi hit a chicane and the left side of the tire wasn't as hot and he ended up lowsiding. That brings me to another question, let's say the track has more right hand turns then left hand turns. Do you have to work your way into the left hand turns to build up heat on that side of the tire before pushing deeper lean angles?
A tyre warmed by a warmer is still not as hot as one that has been ridden on for a couple of laps. Warmers just avoid having to start on cold tyres. In a 6-8 lap sprint, you can't spend 2 laps warming your tyres. I usually ride the warm up lap fairly fast to keep heat in the tyres as well! I know at my local track we have a lot of faster, hard driving right turns and only 2 slowish left turns. You have to be a little more careful on the lefts and the first one has claimed a lot of scalps of riders on the opening lap.
Bottom line is ride to the conditions which doesn't just mean the track/weather, but also your tyre temperature and condition as well. When I was just doing track days without warmers, I'd always take it easier for the first 2-3 laps. Better to be cautious then go home early with a bent bike!
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Also I am used to car racing slicks where it has the holes in it so you know how much rubber you have left, on these tires I don't see that so what is it your looking for to know how much tire life you have on these slicks?
My Pirelli slicks have wear indicators. I am pretty sure all slicks do.
As an aside, with proper racing tyres, you have to work them hard to get them into a temperature zone where they will give maximum grip. If you don't ride fast enough then you may find they will over less grip than a tyre designed to work at lower temperatures. That's why racing tyres are generally not recommended for the road - you simply can't work them hard enough!
Tyre warmers will just help get the tyre up to temperature from the moment the flag drops (in a race). After a lap or two, the temperature of the tyres will be purely down to your riding.
On thing worth mentioning with the Dunlop's (NTEC's) if you are not aware, is they have a very stiff sidewall and as such you need to run the rear at a lower pressure to what you are probably used to. I only did a single testday on my 675 with NTECS and my memory is hazy, but seem to recall running hot pressures of 24 psi in the rear.
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1. Do you use any kind of tank pads?
2. If so, which kind and why?
3. If so, what have you noticed with them?
4. If not, how come?
1- Yes - On all of my race bikes
2- Original style Stomp grip. Liked it the first time and haven't seen a need to change in the past 4 bikes! Only wish they supplied older bikes as my current bike has to use cut generic pads and they have started to lift a bit where I made the cuts. I also like them because they are clear (unlike techspecs), so keep the look of the original bike (which I think is important in classic/post classic racing)
3- I use them predominately for gripping the tank while braking hard and they work very well.
4- N/A
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So, I've said the guy might have been able to save it with the warning through the bars; how would he have done this?
Bullet
Start picking the bike into the slide and check the throttle? (i.e don't continue to roll on, but don't roll off either)
That or turn on the TC
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Yeah, very choppy throttle application - on/off several times. As the rear steps out, I would expect the RPMs to pick up, but they are flat and then fall - which suggests that the rider was not rolling smoothly on.
I don't disagree with that, but it's not why he crashed.
He chops the throttle at the start of the corner, but then starts rolling on and is doing so when the back goes.If you watch the horizon, it continues to tilt right up to when the back lets go. He is doing the classic "rolling on + adding lean angle"
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What you've stated, "steer as quickly as possible in every turn" is correct, but it's not defining quick turning.
I agree with you on this, hence my comment about "using grip to go as fast as possible around the track". I consider quick-turn to be turning as quickly as you can under ideal conditions. Whenever you cannot use all effort to turn but must hold back because you're braking or the road is slippery, you are no longer quick-turning. Instead, you are modulating.
AH! Now this is getting very interesting. That is two riders that feel that "steer as quickly as possible in every turn" does NOT define "quick turn". I took that from Twist II, I feel that it does define it. But, I'm absolutely open to more data, so let's take a look - what other definitions of quick turn can you find? Let's limit the search to Keith's materials, though, since he is the originator of the technique.
I think part of the concept is that he actually introduces a different term in the Twist 2 video - "Quick flick" as opposed to quick turn. That doesn't suggest "turning as quickly as you can under ideal conditions", but more the action of flicking the bike from upright onto the desired line. The benefits are then illustrated with the guys on track, using less lean angle, getting on the gas earlier etc.
My initial post was more to do with looking at the fastest racers in the world at the moment, whom for me is the pinnacle of the kind of riding I do, and questioning an aspect their riding and why/how it differs from what I have learned from CSS. I was always of the mindset (after completing the school levels) that you break cornering down (in terms of both speed and task) and then slowly build them back up again so that you have a better understanding which is true. However, the faster/more competitive I am, I find that there are aspects that I can't apply the same way I could at slower speeds and in this instance, "quick flicking" the bike was one of them!
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How have the newer bikes with better technology, lighter weight, and more power changed your riding style? If you moved up to an S1000RR, for example, has the greater horsepower changed the way you ride? Did the high power output turn you into a point-n-shoot rider, or does it actually feel lighter and handle better than your prior bike, so you corner faster? Do you use the traction modes and ABS, and if so, has THAT technology changed anything about the way you ride, or how you think about approaching a turn?
Let's hear what you've noticed has changed about your riding when you got a newer, or just different, motorcycle!
Interesting post!
I did the opposite and my bikes are getting older! I raced an 06 Triumph Daytona 675 for 2 years and then switched to an '89 Honda VFR400R for the past 1.5 years. Power-wise, it has gone from about ~100bhp to ~60bhp and weight from about 175kg to 160kg.
Few things I noticed initially:- Lower top speed meant that I could brake later into a turn, despite the brake/suspension technology being that much older. Also interestingly, my mid-corner speed is up in almost every single corner (datalogged) at my regular track. I think this is me altering my lines to hold onto to as much speed as possible through the corner-> exit as I just don't have the same power. However, my best laptime on the 400 is still about 4 secs slower than the 675, which is mainly down to the 3 straights on that circuit and that is purely down to power. On the logged graph where the Honda top speed plateau's, the Triumph keeps on accelerating.
I have to say though that I am enjoying riding the smaller bike much more. I'm more competitive and feel like I am riding the bike closer to it's limit than the 675.
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After re-watching the Twist2 DVD the other day and then the Superbikes at Brno, I noticed that they don't turn that quickly. Sure through the esses where there is big change of direction, but in most corners, they take more of a mid line and have lazy-ish steering. Is this because:
A- They trail the brakes heavily and a quick-turn might result in a front end slide?
B- Protecting their inside line and so have to turn earlier rather than later?
C- They are going that much faster that the gyro forces are harder to overcome?
I had a race meeting a couple of weeks ago and looking at this in my own riding, I'm finding that I can't quick turn as easily at race pace as I can when I'm practicing and are typically 3-4 secs off the pace. This is really underlined when we go out for the warm up lap, then the first lap after the start.
Any thoughts?
Cheers Luke
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Hey Luke, just want to check something... when is it you need to work your quads for a lock on? Corner Entry, Mid, Exit or all of the above?
Hey Jason
I noticed it the most when gripping the tank under braking to turn in, but I guess if you're locked in then surely you're quads are getting used throughout the corner.
Hi Luke,
I think cycling is excellent. Aside from decent ab and back strength, also enough upper body strength to get the bike steered well. I'm currently trying the program by Dr. Al Sears, PACE. I don't know why the book is so expensive new, but so far I've liked it a lot, and it makes sense to me while being very easy to do.
Stretching is oft overlooked, I do well when I do.
Best,
Cobie
Hey Cobie
That is a very good point- stretching is one thing that I admit I have overlooked. It is definitely something I am going to be looking into as I think being more flexible will help with a load of situations on the bike.
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Cheers for all the replies! Definitely some stuff to look at and some handy info
Thanks
Luke
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Hey Aaron
Good to see you on here! If you liked 1+2 then you'll definitely love 3 + 4! I am already trying to figure out how I can fit another level 4 + rideday into the coming months
Cheers
Luke
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Hi all,
Just got back from a great Level 3 + 4 up at Hampton Downs NZ and I really noticed how much my legs had taken a pounding over the weekend. Admittedly, the school days do have much more tracktime than an average race weekend, but I think always improving fitness will always benefit you on the bike.
I spoke to one of the instructors about when you can do to get more "bike fit" and he said "more time on the bike!" While this is obvious, for those of us who only own a racebike and do around one meeting a month, there just aren't that many opportunities to ride the bike! What I can do a lot more regularly is get down the gym for a mix of cardio/strength exercising so what I am wondering if there is any advice on specific things to concentrate on?
Any advice is much appreciated!
Cheers
Luke
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Hey Crosby,
There are only a few times I use the rear brake
1.) I accidently hit it with my foot
2.) I run off the track and need to stop
3.) I am on the throttle and start to wheelie
4.) I am going into a corner way to hot
5.) My front brakes fail
6.) I am sitting on my bike in the garage drinking beer and decide to work out my right calve muscle
7.) Need to change the front sprocket, so get someone to stand on the rear brake to undo the nut
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Just FYI Eirik, when you sit very forward on the bike, against the tank, it kinda forces you into a twisted body position when you try to hang off and can lead to really bad form. I know you don't hang off, but I assumed because the OP was riding in the advanced group at track days that he was probably hanging off the bike and sliding forward against the tank could do more harm then good.
Plus it puts the ol' crown jewels into a more compromising position!
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Hi Luke
Darren Sweetman here, I run the school here in NZ. When you come up to Hampton Downs at the end of September I will make sure that I hook you up with one of our coaches that has race experience so that we can work on this problem for you. What will be great is that it is a new circuit and you will need a whole new set of RPs and this should help you focus on the problem at hand.
If you have any questions etc please feel free to call me in the office or to keep up the posts here on the forum.
Cheers
Darren
Hi Darren,
That would be great! Really looking forward to the school - see you in September!
As for my initial post - I had a bit of an up and down weekend! Test day was dry. I had had some suspension work done (which may also have helped), but I was running times quicker than before and did not feel like I was going to run wide like before. So success! I looked and reviewed my TP's but in the end, only pushed one of them deeper into the corner. I could still work on a quicker turn-in, but one thing I found the biggest gains were just loosening up on the inside bar on corners with heavy braking forces (6th gear to 3rd gear corners) I found that I was holding onto the inside bar (all right handers) to the point where I was preventing the bike from reaching a greater lean angle. Conscious of this, I eased up, use more lean angle and ran a little quicker through the turn. Most important thing though is I really feel like I have something to build upon.
That was the up part of the weekend!
The down part was the following race day. Now we switch to a different circuit configuration. Unfortunately, this configuration doesn't get used much and so I had only done about 5 laps on it. Throw into the mix that it was raining!
I was completely lost. On the circuit extention I had no TP's, brake points - nothing and the first session out was qualifying! With an incredibly wet track and dirtied visor from spray, I found it near impossible to pick and memorise TP's and instead just felt my way by following the rider in front for the majority of corners (some were the same as the regular ciruit). This obviously felt awful! Laptimes were really slow and I ended up missing the first race due to seriously unbalanced rain tyres. Race 2 was pretty much like qualifying, only a few laps longer. I just counted the laps down until I could call it a day. I was so far out of my comfort zone (on the extension part) it wasn't funny.
The thing is, given the situation and so little track time, I'm wondering what would have been the best way to deal with it!?
Next month we are back running the regular circuit, so It won't be an issue.
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Hi Luke
I see the next round is using the long track. This adds some really interesting dynamics!
Was thinking about coming down for a look, so if the weather fines up (yeah right!) I'll see you next weekend!
Paul
Yeah - definitely pop down and say hello. I'll be pitting in on of the older garages on the right as you enter the paddock. Should be a good meeting, though it would be a nice change get a 100% dry day! Not really expecting much from the weekend - I have done all of 5 laps around the long circuit and can just about remember which way it goes! Qualifying should be fun.
Thanks
Luke
(jk)
Backing It In
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
I'd agree witrh this! Sliding the rear on a dirtbike at 30mph on mud is easy and great fun. Trying to transfer those new found riding/sliding god skills onto tarmac at 5x the speed is much, much harder!
and I use the rear brake on my racebike all the time in the pits going to and from the track!