ktk_ace
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Posts posted by ktk_ace
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you guys should try the iron eggs lol
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Could do a better picture posting function imho , the current form is very outdated for a forum system.
And... a chit chat / off topic section for all the misc stuff we'd like to post but find no appropriate subsection to post? -
2014 Duke 690
Maybe my bottom is built too small for the powerparts seat; the owner of the 690R with the powerpart seat a a good 1/2 feet taller than me and it fits him better than the stock 690 seat
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Just read a little further in Twist II and your answer will be there:
You get the gas on at the earliest possible moment in a corner. This does not mean at the apex, right before the apex or right after the apex, or at any particular part of the turn, it means as soon as possible.
To meet the throttle standard, steering is completed before you start to get it on.
Thanks!
Can we say then that as soon as possible is the moment when the steering is completed?
Are there other factors other than steering for which the rider should wait or that could make the opening of the throttle non-possible?
Im thinking of a very unexpected step out type of slide mid way during steering when it isnt complete (in which throttle might be maintained or slightly reduced/ slighty opened to stabilize the bike but not a complete roll on ; drop the throttle= high change of a high side on a bike like the bmw S1000rr if the ESP is dailed to 0 aka sans ESP)
or
a pogo-ing suspension (hardware problem)
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The 2012 (and up) KTM duke 690 (not the 690R) stock seat
pure bliss to my bossoms (comfort)
nice support as it has this half donut angles "stopper" back cusion.
as for grip, i prefer the felt type of seats , its 1/2 grippy and 1/2 luxury in 1 package.
I do 100% street riding thou
pic:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/bikes/8483649/KTM-Duke-has-more-than-single-virtue
I got the powerparts seat for my Duke and like it much more than the stock one. Much easier to move around if you need to, and still comfy to me.
duke 390, 690 or 1290?
the 390's stock seat is just horrid... 690r that comes with the powerpart seat isnt as supportive for me (i had access to both a duke 690 AND 690R) , dunno about the 1290
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How do you think they do that?
super aggressive steering angle , aggressive profiled tires and super light weight bikes?
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The 2012 (and up) KTM duke 690 (not the 690R) stock seat
pure bliss to my bossoms (comfort)
nice support as it has this half donut angles "stopper" back cusion.
as for grip, i prefer the felt type of seats , its 1/2 grippy and 1/2 luxury in 1 package.
I do 100% street riding thoupic:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/bikes/8483649/KTM-Duke-has-more-than-single-virtue -
1) find replacement rear shocks (10K miles and the oil inside is spent , gotta get some new ones)
2) work out and be ready to look good at the beach in summer
3) hopefully save up for a much bigger bike like the MT-07(current = 125CC 4T scooter)
4) revise TOTW 2 (book + video) -
Yeah. The Thigh abductor machine really helps me a lot.
I did that at the gym a few hours ago
IMHO u can space 40+ reps into 15 reps each with 90 seconds of rest in between for max muscle endurance ; go easy on the weights , if you dont , you end up with too much mucle mass and not much endurance, or worse ,injury.
a protein shake after the entire workout helps loads with the recovery ( 20G of whey protein and 40g of swiss miss+ 5g of creatine works wonders for me as im allergic to artificial sweeteners , im 165 pounds atm)
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I am especially attracted to the following :
2.The rider's understanding of body positioning——how to properly position himself on the bike and why.
5.The rider's own physical limitations——height, weight, flexibility, conditioning.
these 2 are too overemphasized and treated to godlike status in my area ; I gave a valid point on 1,3 and 4 and was immediately gunned down ...
I guess ego and stupidity (in others) leads to over confidence ,over aggression and ultimately disaster .
Time to hone the skills + parts that are still rusty -
When I was setting up my FZR400 I lowered the front end as well and experienced the "too much of a good thing" myself. The FZR400 has a unique geometry from the factory with a 17inch front tire and an 18inch rear tire for great turn in. Lowering the front end made the bike really unstable. My test ride was very short.
I would have kept it stock or lowered the rear by 5MM (by more fork preload or less shock preload) for some slight understeer when getting used to a new ride imho... but thats just me
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Since there is so much interest in this topic, I'll share a few stories about stock bike stability versus race bike handling: In setting up my race bike (the SuperSingle, not the BMW) I dropped the front (by lowering the triple clamp on the forks) by 5mm to make the bike turn in a little quicker/easier, and I liked the change. When Will came out to help me tune the suspension, he dropped it an ADDITIONAL 10 mm (which is a lot!) to see how I liked it. I rode it and it was noticeably unstable entering the corners, the front end shuddered on entry, so we went back up 5 mm and it was perfect. So it ultimately ended up 10 mm lower than where it was when I first got it, a pretty significant change. He also shortened the wheelbase by adjusting the rear wheel - it was adjusted out almost as far as possible, so he brought it forward and took a few links out of the chain to accommodate that - and that tightened up the handling too, particularly mid-corner.
On my previous bike (ZX6R), I had lowered the front about 5mm or so. When I tried going farther, I got headshake exiting corners.
Some years ago a friend brought over a Ducati 999. It had a cool elliptical steering head on it. I tried riding the bike and found it REALLY difficult to turn, so my husband and I played with it and turned the elliptical steering head to the steeper steering angle, and it handled great after that. The owner of the bike was unaware of that adjustability and was much happier after the change. As said by others above, most bikes are set up for good stability on the street, not for quick turning on the track.
Not everyone likes the bikes to steer so easily - my husband does not like riding my bikes, he finds them twitchy and hard to steer smoothly, and I feel like his bike requires too much effort to turn, so personal preference definitely plays a part.
Its written inside ; some of the members here also said about scraping parts, which is an additional informative datapoint.
PS. as for the bolded part, a different total COG sum (because of different riders) will affect ride characteristics , even if 2 riders are the same weight, if one is short+fat and the other is tall+thin , the tune will be different :
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Thanks for the input. I don't have really specific questions about it. I was just curious, as BMW talks a lot about it, but I sometimes read racers that say they prefer using more standard systems. So I was just curious.
Thanks !
The 2015 S1000RR has DDC as an option
AT the expense of sounding like im dissing BMW off... the HP4's version is revolutionary for its time (2013) but its half assed (outdated) as of now (2 months to 2015) ...
its like comparing windows vista to 7 (8 is a total screwup so new systems/stuff unless proven using trial by fire, dont really have the benefit of being labeled "better" by consumers.)
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No, as per the pic I posted, you turn the small eccentric upside down. This forces the back of the bike up about 4mm or so, which I believe results in a 1mm change in trail. So you get a bit faster steering at the expense of some "stability". As I mentioned, when I had it set this way, the bike just wanted to fall into corners, which is super for track, not-so-super for street, such as a slow turn onto a side street, etc. I've not experimented with this since then, but I probably should revisit at some point. But I have too many other things to work on that don't involve the bike (i.e. my skill set).
(or are different people talking about different thing here?)
HRC figured it out in the NSR500 days... a higher rear will result in a more flipable bike at the expense of stability at lower speeds
here you go (honda took it down because it was and is still too damn good (esp for its competitors) , its their "secret sauce" so to speak , esp the mass centralization parts
imho... if you understand whats in it ... suspension wise i can already trump 90% of the other guys at my own level , but i want to get better too ):
http://www.risingsuncycles.com/bikespecific/suspension.htm
This is some hi - level stuff, i dont expect most people to understand but i do welcome those who can understand and hold a good discussion ~ this is how i improve in this aspect ^^
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Going through coach training I've learned a lot about how set-up affects bikes differently. I've been surprised by just how different the different coach bikes can feel/handle. They're exactly the same bikes but the full-time coaches who ride them most often set them up for their own preferences. It can make a huge difference, especially if your size and/or riding style is different from the coach who set up the bike. There are a couple I feel incredibly comfortable and confident on, and that makes it easy to run really fast laps or focus on the student. Then there are a couple others I prefer to avoid. I have to try to adapt my riding style to make the bike work for me. For example, one is set up in a manner that makes it want to keep leaning in to a corner after I've finished steering it, forcing me to hold a little pressure on the outside bar when I'm riding at a slower pace. The other solution for that bike when I'm riding it is to trail brake in then get on the throttle much harder, but that's not always an option depending on my student. It works great for the coach who set it up, but not so much for me.
I've also learned that tire profiles can play a significant part in this. If a tire has gotten flat on a side from being at that same lean angle a lot, it can make a bike feel like it wants to stand up or fall in to the corner at other lean angles, even with good throttle control and being relaxed on the bars. If you have a bike that does this, the first thing I recommend doing is checking/changing the tire(s). You could chase a lot of adjustments in your suspension without being able to fix that problem and ending up really frustrated.
Cheers,
Benny
at the expense of sounding like a cheapo ... (i prefer to word it as financially efficient ) , I just plain copy what works (the settings) for me using someone else's bike and reverse engineer / setup it if its better than my current setup .
Perks of helping out at the shop and test riding some of the bikes i guess...
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To be entirely fair if you are really basing this on science you would need to isolate the environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, wind) perfectly and have a rider that could give you the exact same lap each time. You would also need to make the test double blind with multiple test riders so that the rider's perception of the changes could be effectively isolated. Testing to that level is rather difficult. That's the bar in the scientific community.
The reality is most of these test are "good enough" but still have human factors involved. Because of the human factors alone there's a bit of "art" to this in my opinion at least. I have been wrong before though.
I think it would be an interesting experiment to have two identical bikes with identical suspensions and settings and paint the suspension on one a different color with a different manufacturer's logo on it. Have riders ride both bikes and see which one they like better. You might get some very interesting results based on the human factors and their perception of the "upgrade".
If the tuner can scientifically assess AND word it down + make an app ... who would need a tuner? the tuner will be without a job...
you get what I mean.
Human factors are... also a huge variable, every monkey is built different LOL. (different COG, differnt limb lengths and different styles)
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That sounds insane. Not saying it's false, just absolutely weird. If it altered ride height and/or spring/damping curve, I could understand it. But I cannot see how it's possible to flip the damper characteristics other than making it more or less progressive. Could be I have stuff to learn.
I worded it wrongly as i was just about to sleep when i typed it out;
Hotfoot is right, it alters the geometry of the bike too...
and flips the progressive characteristrics of the whole progressive link system (not the shock but the characteristics of the links that connects to the shocks , think changing the pivot point on a see saw, but 100X more complicated, engineers usually use CAD to simulate a part)
the shock's characteristics will remain the same but as a whole system, the characteristics will be "flipped" towards oversteer at low speeds and just the right amount of steer at race speeds.
Stock systems (link steup + rear suspension height) are usually tuned for 90% road speeds, so its just the right amount of steer at road legal speeds and understeer at race speeds.
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I have heard him say some interesting things on Youtube that were opposite to what I have heard others recommend. There's always multiple ways of approaching problems and solving them. What's absolutely wrong for some is absolutely right for others.
When I first started learning about riding I looked at some information in absolute's as in correct vs incorrect. Over time I have found that it can't really work this way and having an open mind and embracing other ideas works better (at least for me). Watching someone do it "wrong" and getting great results is sometimes a quite compelling argument.
If you really stop for a moment and think about some of the science it's based on a lot of unknowns with a huge human variable inserted in there to further muck around with the results. For those areas artistry can really fill the gap.
If it works. It works. You never know if it will work for you unless you try it at least once.
Im not so sure if you ride the same bike (near same handling and cog + near same level of mods) and same tires (same grip + profile+ damping/handling characteristics ) + is around the same weight as said person giving advice
" its art only if you don't understand it "
The most scientific way is still to have a control bike + a bike with one "mod" and see how it works, but its nigh impossible in the real world , hence the artistry to fill the temporary void
Im happy just with 2 to 3 points of reliable data points (usually provided by others) to map out and isolate the sweet spot in my suspension (and other) settings ~
PS. i would say its 50% intelligence and 50% luck that i get to have very accurate data/info on how to tune my bike using the least amt of effort and resources , i aint rich ... yet
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One suspension tuner at the track flipped the eccentric link at the top of the shock
What is this? Could you explain?
multi link shocks have many parts and one of the link parts on the shock/suspension assembly is called the "eccentric link" , flipping it simply means the charateristics of the shock is flipped "upside down" , the low and hi speed compression/rebound damping characteristics are "flipped" , so instead of a slightly understeering bike at low speed, he got an oversteering bike at low speeds (but steers fantastically at race pace)
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race grade engine braking and TC control (esp rear slip ratio)
everything else is near prototype grade (read: ultra expensive and ultra capable)
good luck riding like that on a sub 32,000 USD production bike ... (the panigale R is 31000 mind you) -
Curious...what were the major modifications that were made ? I can imagine that all the fairing would make it lighter...then maybe better suspensions ? I am curious...
Most race preped bikes have these (usually )...
Tires : slicks and sharper tire profiles make handling vastly different.
Unspring weight : magtek/CNC/carbon rims (1-3 pounds per rim) , lighter brake discs frond AND rear (0.3-0.7 pounds per disc), whole brembo race caliper set (0.2- 0.8 pounds per caliper)
Suspension : Ohlins TTX series mechatronic with dual way semi active suspension (both compression and rebound adjustments on the fly , the 2014 HP4 "only" has OTF compression damping adjustments)
Geometry : higher rear with lowered front makes steering easier at higher speeds (read : track) , but will be overly sensitive on street speeds (As what Rchase said, there is a tradeoff )
Electronics : Power commander /bazazz tuning makes 200HP easliy with dyno tuning and race fuel , custom TC maps based on GPS data /sections of the track makes the bike switch to the optimum amount of power/ tc mode for said corner
Misc: lithium battery for another 1.5-3 pounds off , race fairings without lights and signals = at least 3 pounds off , whole engine rebuilds with race spec parts...
And then you can get a custom tuned frame ( *cough kalex/suter ) wihich is essentially just the "stock" motor and fairing in a different bike... (*cough moto 2)
All of them are tools to track day victories/ podiums but needs time and effort to accustomize/optimize ; you are not going to be a god at the track simply by bolting everything I listed on your bike... Practice still makes perfect
You can easily blow 2-20 times the price of the bike on the parts, esp the frame ~ Thats why racers get sponsors.
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I'd get magnesium helmet sliders for the sparkles lol
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video games imho might help...
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you will usually experience understeer for uphill corners and the exact opposite for downhill corners (understeer)
I read this several times and then something in my brain went "dzzzzt"......
Fixed ~ XD
was just waking up while typing it LOL
Braking The Tyre
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Nice vid ~