lant5

that actually is the same question that's been troubling my mind for years!!!

I am not able to grip the tank well with just one knee (probably an issue of technique here), so what I do is I drive the inside knee into the tank when I'm braking, before flipping it out at the Turn Point. Since the heavy braking is done while the bike is mostly upright, the inside knee won't be anywhere close to the pavement to make use as a lean angle gauge, and conversely, when I get the to the Turn Point most of the braking is done, so I don't need the extra support from the inner knee to stop me from throwing my weight forward. It's a classic case of "works for me", but try it out and see if you can make it work for yourself. Anyway, let us all know how it worked out for you. Best regards, Kai will do!! thanks!! my next track day won't happen until late-september though... gosh I can't wait

I don't hard brake then pop off the brakes and dip it in or trailbrake. There is about a second when I'm not hard braking but still braking (while coming off the brakes) and adjusting to get where I'm comfortable with my entry speed. That's when my knee goes out. I know it's a long time and distance at 80 mph, but it's the habit I have. i gotcha

Awesome!! Stuman, reading your post has been like a clinic.. and you painted the picture so well! Thanks last thing about braking.. the last couple of days after reading your posts, I've been looking at some video footages of MotoGP, SBK, AMA races, especially Rossi, Biaggi, T. Hayden and the top guys. I paid extra attention to their braking movements and their knee positions and was surprised by my own discovery.. Seems like majority of the GP racers initiated braking, straighten their body, and stuck their knee out all at the same time(in one motion). Most of the time I didn't see knees squeezing but instead their knees were out as they're engaging and still under hard braking. Do you have an idea how they might have achieved this without transferring the weight to the bars?? or do you think they were also putting the pressure onto their arms and hands?? Thanks a million

I'm glad I wasn't the only one experiencing this.. because these numb hands and arm pump problem didn't seem to bother my track buddies so I always thought it was only my problem.. thanks for sharing it. Btw Jasonzilla, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "When I'm coming off the brakes and adjusting more for entry speed, I stick my leg out and the pressure I can apply on one side with my knee out (stompgrip) I'm still off the bars." would you please clarify? Thanks

So that is really generating the fatigue here? pushing the braking lever? holding on to the handlebars? - or holding your body weight back while braking? As Dylan is writing, you need to be using your legs to push into the tank to stabilize your body and take the weight away from the handlebars. Simultaneously, your need to use your abdominal and back muscles to reduce the amount of weight thrown onto the handlebars. Oh, and this will have the positive side effect of having less unplanned steering input; pushing on the handlebars to keep your weight back will generate an unplanned and undesired steering input, which could affect the bike's stability and trajectory. As a motorcycle safety course instructor, I regularly see riders give uneven input to the handlebars while braking, causing the bike to get slightly out of vertical and thereby increasing the risk of crashing, should the front wheel lock up. Regards, Kai good advice.. thank you Kai.. I understand the tank gripping concept but couldn't execute it right... as soon I stick my knee out.. then I rely on my arms.. but I think i'm starting to get the idea

great advice!! I'll be sure to check those discs.. both!! what you said about fatiguing in hand and forearm actually got me really curious.. how are they supposed to feel like when you are braking hard?? I'm firmly applying my brake while trying to maintain my forearms as level as possible at the same time keeping myself as close to the back of the seat as possible.. which would be something like grappling on to the brake lever while pushing my body away from the front of the bike with my arms.. the force is quite intense, and that took a lot of strength and energy to do. How is it possible to hard brake without gripping on strongly?? Gday mate, Just wondering if you have attended a school level yet? I think the problem is your holding on too tight to the bars and getting 'wrist pump', the more you straighten your arms ie lock them out and increase your grip whilst pushing yourself away on the hangers (like white knuckle tight), the more the forces will transfer throughout the bike causing a bit more instability, basically your stopping the bike from doing its thing. We also need to look at what your doing with your knees, are you locked onto your tank and using the pressure from the inside of your knees to provide stability? Doing this gives you the ability to loosen/relax your arms, so they kinda work like shock absorbers allowing the bike to correct itself. Doing this should get rid of your arm pump and sore wrists. I would suggest to buy the Twist DVD because Keith actually covers this exact point in depth and explained alot better than I can. Hope my 2 cents worth helps Dylan Thanks for the pointer dylan~ that is very similar to what Stuman says on the other thread.. btw.. i just looked into the dvd and order myself one thanks

what you said made sense really, its just that I'm not used to sitting close to the tank(btw I'm 6'0" with long torso), my helmet will be hitting the windscreen if I tuck in. Like Stuman said it's hard to maneuver.. so I'll use Stuman's technique to stabilize my lower body and core. Nonetheless, I appreciate your attempt to help..

Wow~ this is by far the best advice I heard!! Thank you! I think you have just about cleared up my mind and found a solution for me.. this is awesome!! Yes you're right.. I should get myself a stomp grip and start practicing that technique you mentioned. I'm glad that at least I'm doing something right(moving my weight back during braking) next time I will slow down my pace on the track to practice this until I feel comfortable. one thing though.. You mentioned "Do Not let your inside leg off the tank until you are done braking or until you start to lean in." I understand this is ideal, but what would you do under circumstance you have to trail brake?? Thanks Stuman

I was on another thread discussing about a problem I have with hard braking.. I've just started riding Advanced group on trackdays for about half a season.. and we all know with higher level of riding comes faster speed and harder braking. Well, I don't have strong forearms to deal with long, constant hard brakings.. my right wrist and arm get fatigued easily(in 3-5laps) due to hard pressure and vibration caused under braking.. what's the best way to fix the problem?? A member-Khp mentioned hands and forearm fatigue should not be happening when braking.. I kinda agree.. but I don't have a solution to it! I know squeezing the tank with my knees would help, but it actually delays my pre-corner entry setup.. I usually stick my knee out before braking is complete. And when that happens I rely more on my arms to keep me from going forward. how should your hands and arms feel when you are braking hard?? What I normally do is I firmly apply my front brake while trying to maintain my forearms as level(parallel to the bike) as possible at the same time keeping myself as close to the back of the seat as possible.. which would be almost like fist clinching hard on the brake lever and the grip while pushing my body away from the front of the bike with my stiffened arms.. the force is quite intense, and that took a lot of strength and energy to do. How is it possible to hard brake without gripping on strongly?? Thanks

great advice!! I'll be sure to check those discs.. both!! what you said about fatiguing in hand and forearm actually got me really curious.. how are they supposed to feel like when you are braking hard?? I'm firmly applying my brake while trying to maintain my forearms as level as possible at the same time keeping myself as close to the back of the seat as possible.. which would be something like grappling on to the brake lever while pushing my body away from the front of the bike with my arms.. the force is quite intense, and that took a lot of strength and energy to do. How is it possible to hard brake without gripping on strongly??

yes.. in fact, I already have the zip-tie in place and in all the trackdays I've done, I have never bottomed out my front fork riding track.. (maybe one time goofing around doing wheelie on streets, but that's it)

Hi guys!! Need some advice from you expert track riders/racers out there!! 1, How much braking improvement can you get out of a master cylinder upgrade(i.e Brambo radial m/c etc)?? what about fancy rotors like Galfer wave floating rotors?? which one would benefit more(regardless or price)?? I've heard brake pads and brake lines make the most difference in providing braking power and consistency.. what would be the second most effective mods?? 2, I've just started riding advanced group on trackdays for about half a season.. I don't have strong forearms to deal with long, constant hard braking.. my right wrist and arm get fatigued easily(in 3-4laps) due to hard pressure and vibration caused under braking.. what's the best way to reduce the vibration caused by braking or to fix the problem?? Thanks