anthem

I can only recommend that you go in with no pre-conceived notions of what you think is right/wrong way to ride on a track and let them teach you and you learn and figure it out.

A - I think too many people put the concept of the comfort of riding your own bike too high. They want to work on skills and those same drills are the same regardless of which bike you are on. It doesn't become relevant until you are talking race times and want to get better on the bike that you might be racing on in an upcoming event or something. If you are making metric ton improvements it doesn't matter what you are riding. almost zero chance at Laguna. Laguna has strict sound limits. They don't want to bother with students coming with their own bikes what if you get black flagged and then couldn't ride your bike and take the class's ? You willing to forfeit your tuition ? You might but it gets to be a touchy situation. They don't want to be Iin that situation and i dont blame them. so the Laguna days are all controlled on their bikes. And even then they request that you short shift between turn 5 and turn 6.

they have to pass tech inspection. If you have never been to a track day, you may want to look at that (lights taped, plate removed, mirrors removed/taped, etc etc)

If you are looking for good lap timers (10hz capablity) - some good ones that I have used are starlane (www.starlane.com) and aim sports (aim-sportline.com). Both are top notch and expandable to data acquisition as well.

I would recommend that you look into Foremost. They cover track days as long as its not a timed event (racing). .. I haven't made a claim, but they have been good to deal with, with all the bikes I have. I can't use progressive because they won't cover certain sportbikes (especially newer superbike models), so I dropped them and went to foremost.

if you have the trailer restraint, then you will be fine. You can probably lean over on each side as far as you want with no stability issues. However, the bike obviously won't be leaning while you're leaned over on each side.

Also, in response to the above poster about slipper clutches and blipping - thats what I have unfortunately gotten accustomed to doing with my slipper. .. However, I have been admonished that I should still be blipping on the way down (even with the slipper) to match revs to the gear. Basically the slipper while able to not throw you off or lose you traction, its purpose is not to match revs while downshifting and you're always better off to match revs while downshifting or downshifting/braking.

I disagree with much of your post. I used to ride Q2's and now ride almost exclusively GPA's. The GPA provides equal or better traction as a Q2, except in wet conditions owing to less siping on the GPA, regardless the respective operating temperature. A GPA at 130 deg is not less traction than a Q2 at 130 deg and it does not take any longer to heat up a GPA than a Q2. From what I have seen, this is mythology perpetuated by riders making other mistakes and blaming it on the tires - Steve has refuted this notion repeatedly and my experience matches his comments. None of this is a criticism of the Q2 - I rode the S1000RR on Q2's this week and they are fantastic, inspiring tires. For my money however, I get that same fantastic performance and more from the GPA's, but I also get more longevity so my overall cost per lap on GPA's is less than on Q2's. We all are captive to our experiences so if your personal experience has been different then obviously we are unlikely to agree on this subject. All this said, if I were only street riding, I would chose the Q2 hands down if for no other reason than it will be better in wet conditions. GPAs in the wet are not inspiring. Brad - I agree with you except for maybe one caveat. The Pirelly SC1/2's that I use are essentially the same or better than the SP's for just about every temperature range at the track. It exhibits wide temperature just like the d211gpa's. . The only time that I think that that might be true is when the outside weather is really cold. . . . IF its 40 outside, the road OEM SP's seem to be a bit grippier as any normal tire in cold weather. The SC's almost seem really "hard" and will wiggle on you for the first mile or so. . . so in that particular super cold case (where you should be careful regardless), I'm not sure the DOT race tires are as grippy as say OEM road going tires. But anything beyond that - I think its the same or better.

I think your second part essentially hit the nail on the head. . . basically the d211 any any temperature will give equal traction as the q2 and the the d211 will give more traction as it heats up. . . I would imagine this to be the case essentially from any moderate temperature on up. This might not be the case in 40 degree weather and just starting out, but anything say at 60 degrees on up - the two are probably going to give essentially the same. . Between the two, I think he's saying when you lose traction of one over the other is not based on temperature between the two. Now whether the d211gpa really has that wide an operating temperature ? Dunno, but he should probably know more than most. I do know the pirelly SC1/2 compounds seem to exhibit fairly wide temperature ranges. Maybe not as wide down in colder temps, but anything above say 60 and the tire gets to decent operating temp and is grippy. I think they have come a long way from narrow operating band tires now with Dunlop and Pirelli.

if you get them wet - leather will stretch a bit, but not too much. Kangaroo will not stretch much at all, or at least it stretches less than cowhide. Some people will jump in a shower to stretch the suit out but I wouldn't advise on doing that. . . I usually put a suit on and walk around the house for an hour or so. .. do this several times looking like a dork and suffering the mockery that the rest of your family gives you. That will at least get you comfortable with the suit and the suit will stretch a little (maybe a half size). .. In a way you want a suit that you can still wear if you gain 5 pounds, but at the same time Hotfoot is right in that you want a suit that fits snug and keeps the armor in the right places that you need it . . In terms of brands - some brands give you decent protection and I can't really say any brands "gouge" in their race suits since they dont' sell anywhere near that many of them. . . You aren't really even paying for the "name" if you're buying Dainese or A* since most of their suits are in the 1-2k range as well. . . And AGV sport doesn't even really have a name that anyone knows, so there is no name there. . And the really uber high end suits are pretty expensive like the japanese cowhide ones from RST, K-tani - but both of them don't really have a "name" either that evokes brand recognition..

Andy - are you a "standard size" fit for most of these sizes ? If you are then you can get off the shelf suits. If not, then you might have to look at custom suits. . I find that with most of these - the better two options that most know about (and mid way up their line) being Dainese and A* are both very good options. A* Laguna Seca on up and Dainese mid level on up both satisfy most people's idea of a good safe suit. . Some other brands to consider are Held and Rev'It which both make very nice suits as well at a slightly better price.. . You can also spend more and get a lot more as well, but given that its not within your price point - no need to go there.

Wow, that says it all. . . CSS Head of instruction is obviously wrong. CSS instructors don't know what they are talking about. There must not be any point to go to school either. . . . Not sure the Socratic method of teaching would even work. . . I'm going to say this - EVERYBODY ELSE but one is "right" and I know it.

Uh - that's not what you said. Maybe that's what you meant to say but certainly not what you did. "How they got more hp out of the bike" when in fact they got none. And I don't think you want to get I to Internet etiquette with me. I put it in bold for emphasis. I think its best I bow out of this. Good luck with your progression and I hope you find the enlightenment you are looking for. I will suggest that you should perhaps listen to the instructors who have been giving you very good advice that you appear to be ignoring.

Do you see the difference here ? I heard/read/saw the same thing McKeen did. You seem to have seen a completely different video. . . Your focused on this increasing horsepower concept, but the video said exactly opposite of that. They didn't add ANY horsepower from using the tunnel. To me, they explained how they used wind tunnel testing to get more aerodynamic, and that tucking your elbows in by 1/2" could gain you 3mph, which was like getting more horsepower. They didn't get more hp nor add to it but used better body positioning to achive a more aerodynamic shape at faster speeds. .

Not what I got - but then let me ask this - are you doing ANYTHING he said he had to do to be competitive or get to "remains to be seen" ? As far as I know, you are looking at LOWERING when he clearly he said he had to RAISE the bike. Then he said he had to shorten the bike which I doubt you'll be doing either.. . So based on that - I don't see how you are getting anywhere closer, but yet claim to be already beyond someone else on a s1000 as is right now.. . .

And I'll point out some points from that video - -he can come /close/ to his previous times on the superbike class. . . So after doing all of that, he can take an unlimited bike close to the superbike class that has limits. . . If he's telling you with all those modifications he can only get close to his previous superbike - what should that say ? That a talented rider like that realizes that he can only get close. -Notice the changes that were made ? Raising the bike to get more ground clearance which is completely counter to what you said you were going to do. And at the same time you say "all things being equal, you will smoke a bmw s1000rr" -Notice how he said after spending 846,000 dollars, RAISING the bike, and shortened the bike and who knows what else to get it to be competitive.

Your right, but I and probably everyone else so far is telling you that no matter what you do to the Hayabusa, it will be at a disadvantage to a BMW S1Krr or something along those lines. You're using street examples to justify your positioning which makes no sense. . So a lowered turbo busa. I threw the lengthening in there for added effect and more illustrate a point. Honestly no one here cares what kind of bike you want or I want or you have or I have. We're discussing around the concepts irrespective of the actual bikes. It doesn't matter if you had a Harley, Hayabusa, or a gold wing. We all go back to our own bikes back at home after school. What everyone is trying to point out is that when you say "all things being equal, me on my Hayabusa will smoke a s1k" and everyone is saying - all things being equal, EVERYONE here is going to bet on the BMW S1k because its more agile and its top speed and horsepower isn't going to be shadowed by that Hayabusa in any sort of meaningful way is the realistic answer - thats the difference. And honestly - you really should consider riding as many different kinds of bikes as possible. One of the advantages of the school is that they do offer the BMW for you to ride. You would be crazy not to ride it just to try it out. . . And by the way - I don't own the BMW, never have, and probably never will.

No, its not about that at all. . . There are people who will bring harley's onto a track. I had a friend with a V-rod who knew he could lean over much further going left than right because of exhaust clearance on that bike. Kind of dangerous in that going hard right would lever the rear wheel and low side, but he was conscious of that. But its not about the bike - its about your realization that and adamant position that your lowered turbo hayabusa is better around a track than more worthy track bikes. The busa is fine around a track - but a lowered, lenghthened, hot rod turbo busa is not a better riding "instrument" than even within their own line GSXR1000. No, you're twisting the debate to where you know the hayabusa has the only advantage (along a straight) and thats it. The more nimble bike can carry much higher speeds into and through the turns (without slowing down more). Since its through the turn faster, it has a faster exit speed and can get on the gas much sooner to reach whatever speed its going to reach. Basically from a start - lets say the busa can take the turn at 80mph, and lets say the bmw can take the turn at 90. You have to slow down to 80 while the bmw is at 90mph around the turn. At 90mph, your chewing up 132ft/sec, at 80 mph, your chewing up 117ft/sec. So the more nimble bike is gaining 15ft/sec just through the turn. And since its through the turn faster, right when the bike is set through the turn, its on the gas much sooner accelerating out of the turn while you're still waiting to get onto the gas - followed by a small straight, more turns, more straights and turns. The only place where you are going to make up any distance/speed is on the 0.5mile straight - but that won't make up at NJMP say with what 10 turns - and each turn you lost 80ft ? By the time you start your straight, your 800ft behind trying to make that up on a 2000ft straight. . .

Kind of funny - seven people, with two being CSS instructors essentially telling someone with zero track experience that all things being equal in skills that you'll be faster on a S1000 type of track bike than a lowered, hot rod turbo Hayabusa and yet you'll continue to say equal skill with another rider and you'll dust another rider on an S1000rr with your hot rodded hayabusa. . amazing Ok I should add se content - all things being equal, the s1000rr rider should be able to carry more speed into the corner, carry more speed through the corner and be able to get on the gas sooner to be exit. The only advantage the busa will have is after the corner in the straight over the BMW and even that would be very very marginal over the s1k.

It's not the strength of your assertions, its as you say "never been on a track", but you seem to know whats best when others are telling/hinting at otherwise. . You had two CSS instructors pretty much tell you otherwise (subtly), but you absolutely won't believe them. . . Strange. I go to class to learn. They tell me what to do and I go out and try to do it. But I'm certainly not challenging them on it and telling them I'm right and they are wrong. To each their own. I hope you go to the session and see what everyone here is talking about. Maybe it will be enlightening.

You're just not getting it.. . . Plain and simple - You don't have the ability to harness the power that is on the Hayabusa around a track. And even and when you do - the limitations of the hayabusa will come into play where other bikes will easily exceed it. And in answer to your questions - for instance at Laguna, there is only a couple seconds (2.xx) between the superbikes of AMA and the experimental prototype MotoGP bikes. Here is some laptimes from a couple years ago . MotoGP - 1:21.376 Casey Stoner AMA Superbike - 1:24.691 Josh Hayes AMA Pro Sportbike - 1:27.586 Martin Cardenas So the best rider in the world is less than 3 seconds faster than the best AMA rider from MotoGP to liter bikes and another 2.xx seconds to the 600cc supersport class. . . Now, what you will read into that (and erroneously) is that you have the same skill based on those same bikes. You don't. Period. It doesn't scale that way - you hope you get better than you can tap the power to the more powerful bikes and then that will make you faster. A very fast rider just told you otherwise as well. Hotfoot has just told you she's faster on a Moriwaki than she is on the BMW (depending upon track). How about this for a deflating ego scenario - You put your turbo on and take your bike to 250 or 300hp, she's going to take her 37hp moriwaki, give you a 10 second head start and still smoke you. . . So how does that 250hp sound now when you just got whipped by 37hp ?? Now, hotfoot will also tell you that there are certain tracks where she'll be faster on the higher hp machine. But she'll be faster on that moriwaki on any track they ride over your hayabusa by far. . . The only place that hayabusa has an advantage with its horsepower is on straights where you aren't leaned over. But you can't make it up in the straights with what you're giving up elsewhere. But she can better tap the power that the bigger liter bike has that you can't. Like I said - you're not getting it and unwilling to accept anyone's input at this time. Your "stuck" and can't seem to get out. Best thing is for you to go some track days, go to track schools, go to CSS. Keep an open mind and hopefully learn something. Maybe if Keith tells it to you straight up - you'll finally get it.

Everyone hear has been giving you good advice and information. As I said before - I think you're not allowing yourself to be opened to a different world of riding but "stuck" in this go fast in a straight line mentality. . . You keep mentioning that you're an avid student/learner yet you're completely stuck in your drag strip hot'rodded bike as being the best end-all. . . What your missing from what everyone is telling you is that when you go to these schools, they are going to be pushing beyond where you've gone before. If you've read Keith's books, you should know about survival reactions and those will happen with a bike that isn't geared, compliant, matched to your skills, etc. . . I've got 3 bikes that are 200hp+. . One is a MotoGP bike. I've been to the school countless times. Even I can guarantee that I would probably be faster on a 600 series bike than one of my 200hp bikes. I'm hoping someday that I will be able to extract the skills necessary that I will be faster on a 200hp+ bike that I will be faster. So what elrik is telling you is the absolute truth. After learning, you /will/ be faster on a 600 series bike than your busa. As we keep saying its NOT straight line speed, its your ability to keep speed around corners and accelerate out of corners that is the key. You're stuck on HP, get out of it. If you think the Busa is the best option for track - then why don't you see anyone racing it ? It's not because it doesn't fit any class, its because it will get slaughtered. And no matter what modifications you make to it, it will get slaughtered. It will get slaughtered by riders with half the horsepower that a Busa has. Let me put it in even more black and white. hotfoot's been on here and gave you some advice as well. After you take the two day class, hotfoot can take her moriwaki 250cc (yeah, thats like 250cc compared to whatever your busa has), give you a 10 second headstart and still smoke you by a generous amount. . . If you took their best rider on your super charged hayabusa and let him ride it against the bmw s1000rr and put it in rain mode (chopping the horsepower down to 120 or something), they will still be faster on the bmw. So what does that tell you ? A rider MUCH BETTER than you or I will be faster on something else. Realize that as fact and accept it because it is what it is. There is nothing wrong with riding a busa on the track - people do it all the time. But there is something wrong with close minded thinking that its the best thing on the track, or thinking that it'll be the best option for you on the track. Thats just plain wrong. There are many people who ride way faster than you around a track and telling you (multiple times) that it can be tracked, but its not the best option and you will be faster on a more nimble bike. If you don't want the accept it, not sure what else there is to say.

I think mentally you're heading in the wrong direction. . it's not about the "fastest" bike. It's about the fastest "rider" around a particular track. If you want the "fastest" bike - define the terms of what/where you want fastest ? Right now you're strictly talking straight line. Because no matter how you configure a Hayabusa, it will not be the fastest bike around the tracks that they ride on. It /might/ on a long oval, or predominantly straight track, or on a long airport strip - but not around a track. .. So you keep saying you don't care about curves or circles etc - but then whats the point of taking a cornering school ? And honestly, if you wanted the most powerful bike, you can get a 400 hp turbine bike right now. . . Its the most powerful bike I know out there. . . But it isn't really able to get around a track. A 250cc moriwaki would probably kill it. .. And its not that no one will give you power to weight, its because its different for different bikes, eras, manufacturers, etc. I own one of the closest to motogp replica bikes ever made - nothing is as close as this bike is to the actual thing. . It's 200hp to 377lb - does that answer your question ? It might, but just because you increase one or decrease the other doesn't mean its better because there are other factors (where the weight is, sprung/unsprung, suspension, rideability, traction, etc etc)

Honestly - I think CSS would be happier training on 250 or 600cc bikes. But the S1000rr is just so much "sexier" and "desirable" for potential track attendees so it makes sense. .. But as students, everyone would be better off on 600cc bikes in school. . . And HP isn't everything. They are training a 16yo kid on a 250cc that is faster than 99.9 percent (yeah 1 out of 1000) of people on liter bikes. He'll run circles around you even if you had a turbo that could add 100hp onto your hayabusa. . .

There is a huge difference between "knowing" and "doing". . . I know a lot of things in certain areas but that doesn't necessarily mean I can execute it. . . I don't think anyone is underestimating anyone. People are giving their opinions and that is it. . If you want to be a better rider - go attend the schools. The schools teachings are irrespective of type of bike you own. Nothing wrong with going to be a better rider and going back to riding whatever it is you own (Hayabusa, Harley's, superbikes or mopeds). If you want to build the best drag bike you can - go for it. If you want to build the best track bike you can - go for it. But I think what others are trying to tell you is that those two don't really intersect that much. There are a lot of great bikes out there but that doesn't mean they are great for the track. Just like a lot of great track bikes out there aren't great for much else either.