anthem

Hey Yousef - glad you had a good time. I think I was in the group opposite yours, but I knew who was your counterpart who had your bike (ended in a "4", right ?). . . I would definitely say - get comfortable on the bike, put some miles on, and go back and do 1&2 again. You'll learn so much. That way you won't have as many incidences or have things that are moving too fast going over your head. .. Just have the bike be second nature to you - and then take the class again and it'll be another big step improvement.

I was just going to post essentially what elrik wrote. Read that line carefully as thats the essence here. .. I know a lot of people want to ride their own bikes - so much so that they will sign up for the 1 days for that exact purpose. But if you're goal is to be a better rider regardless of bike (which is essentially the point of the school/class) - then don't let less than ideal tools hold you back or be the reason that you can't get there. . . This isn't a knock on any bike as all of us go to the bikes that we own, but we go to CSS to get better - and hopefully nothing gets in the way of that. .. It's like you go to a top cooking camp with Wolfgang Puck, but you aren't going to say - I'm bringing my own ingredients and thats what I'm cooking with. Thats not to say you won't learn a lot - as you will. Just that IMO, you become a better rider and then apply that with the limits of your bike, rather than trying to learn to the limit of your bike.

if you're losing power like that - you might not like the answer. I'd get it checked out. Definitely sounds lean and if its lost of power and running rough, could be pistons. Hopefully its something simpler like filters, etc.

I don't think its a cool factor or not. Having it there while learning, riding, training, etc is a /good/ thing. Not sure why anyone would argue with that. You aren't going to be perfect all the time and having a small safety blanket is generally a "good thing". When the instructors ask you to push it and you're just not quite as smooth the first few times and slightly "over do" it - having traction control there is again - a "good thing". if you don't want to use it - turn it off. But saying that any improvement technologically is garbage and there should not be electronic aids is bordering on absurd. Thats like saying - we should strip ABS out of cars (and bikes), and take traction control our of cars too - lets all go back to no electronic aids for ANYBODY because thats the way everyone should ride/drive/etc. Now, in terms of tire choices - other tires do work. They just aren't "optimized" by the manufacturer. If you don't like it you certainly don't have to buy it. And its definitely not obscure - its pretty obvious as just about every panigale owner I've ever come across knows that Ducati recommends the Supercorsa SP's on the bike. They do have a few other track day tires (SC0/1/2) profiles on their as well. But you do have choices in other tires - just they don't endorse them.

Ducati only has maps for the Pirelli tires. It is optimized for those tires though others will work with moderate success. You /can/ get an ecu map for 3 other race slick tires (Dunlop etc) but you will be hard pressed to get that module. It is for superstock racing and you need to find a ducati corse dealer who is willing to order it

What are you riding for ? If you are using the bike for transportation - then the Gixxer is moderately comfortable in the sportbike world. The hayabusa might be a bit more comfortable since its a longer/wider type of bike, but none are really /that/ comfortable. . . In terms of comfort, you would be a lot more comfortable in an upright cruiser and a slew of other bikes before a superbike/sportbike. The school isn't really about type of bike though - as long as you have a bike you can handle (or use theirs) then you can learn/use the skills that you are trying to gain. And if you really want a superbike for the track/school - there are a lot of bikes that can hit 180+ hp that are easily rideable around the track. the BMW s1000rr school bike is 180+ (though torque is a bit lower), several Duc's, KTM's, etc etc are all in that category.

Congrats. Off to a great start. .. always wondered how you guys had a twitter page before a facebook site, but glad you have both now... . .

I meant Hz as you are correct (as we usually deal in mhz, so just slipped my mind).

Look into the AIm smartycam with ECU bridge (BMW S1000r) is already there. The ECU tap is in the front of the bike by the left side fairing I believe (Will knows where it is). You don't need data logging, all you want is data to be available for the camera system and to be utilize that data to be overlaid onto the video. The advantage with data overlay is that its done live and recorded that way. Its one of the unique abilities of that particular system/setup. All the other solutions of merging data after the fact won't work for the school (who's going to spend time merging recorded data with video at the school ? nobody). So you need to have it overlaid and recorded that way. Then you pop the card out, its in MOV or AVI format and you can play it with any media player. The cards are micro-SD though which means they are small (and not the CF flash cards that you use with your race data systems). So carrying them in gloves might be a challenge :-). I will probably be bringing my bike at the next VIR sessions if I can get it ready in time (just switched bikes). If I get it up and running in time I can show Dylan/Cobie/Will/et al. But we are diverging from data acquisition to video overlay with data.

Are you willing to double your school fee ? It's twice as expensive as the next most expensive track day out there. I think until COTA brings down the track rental fees to something where most operators and participants are willing to pay - the opportunities to get onto COTA will be few.

if you are doing single days - then you will have plenty of time to run warmers between sessions. Williamsburg, eh ? same.

problem with the iphone and most of the non-pro stuff is that its 5mhz gps. The dedicated data acquisition stuff is 10mhz (10 updates per second) and some of the really pro stuff is 20mhz. At 100mph, 5 updates per second is 30ft. at 10mhz, that drops to about 15ft - which is generally enough to work with. Thats a huge difference. Granted - its good to get started at that level. But once you enter in with the better stuff its night and day. In terms of cost - yes, about $1200 to start with the Aim stuff - which you get quite a bit. Video data over lay requires use of their camera's which is 1k. Or you can get the camera's and tie into the ecu for around $1200. You get whatever you want to overlay, but no logging of data. But one of the reasons that I say the school should do it is because its out of reach for most people (or out of what they want to spend). That way it has more value. If the school could give you a video (forget the actual data analysis, just video with data overlay) - you can study your own braking zones, braking pressure, your throttle positions, your gyro/lean angles, etc - would you be more inclined to not miss that camera session on bike ? Because I would say half of the Level IV's just skip the camera bike right now.

I use the Aim EVO4. What Aim has done right is that they've built ECU bridges for most major manufacturers bikes. If you tap the Can H/L line, then you can get all the bikes sensors without trying to use an RPM K-line, and putting your own sensors in that are already there. . . AIM has ECU plugs/bridges/instructions for most of those bikes so once you locate the EVo4 logger, you just tap in and you are already on your way with a number of sensors that the bike has (temps, rpm, speed, throttle position, etc). If you want to replace the dash - you can also use the AIM MXL dash units which put the data logger into the dash (or just add a dash lap timer), but I prefer the small EVO4 unit in the tail of my bike. I have a few extra sensors into it, but its not overboard. I can take that data and overlay it onto video as well. To give you an idea of the Evo4 data feeding the smartycam which I think would be cool for the school to do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLmzIRQFe1w&list=PLQRA6OR-5SCXigl060CU-Qb-KHG-dEcR1&index=5 And yes, I agree that you can detect a lot of this from sound (rpm), but its a lot easier with actual data being shown (speed, rpm, brake pressure, throttle position, etc). And it puts the school into another "cool" category which most people don't have access to. But then again, it might encourage people to do the camera bike more which I'm, not sure would be the CSS goal ????

I really like data acquisition and do a bit as I can learn quite a bit from it. I also overlay it onto any video session I do. I have my ecu tapped to get wheel speed, brake pressure, rpms, throttle position and also have external sensors for turn rate and front tire temp (sidewall). Obviously no where near as much as the telemetry of the motogp but enough for me. The ones that help me most are the throttle position (because I'm a wuss on the throttle), brake pressure (and location of where I'm braking). The rest is just cool stuff to have. I've mentioned and I really think CSS should do some data acquisition/telemetry on their camera bike. I don't think there is enough time to do a full data acquisition analysis, but some basic things like brake pressure, throttle position, turn rate, overlaid onto the video would be a great thing for students. You wouldn't spend any more time and they would definitely want to do it and keep it. Not to mention, I think a few other advanced riding schools are starting to do it - hint hint

If I remember correctly the camber on that road changes right when the bike should be picked up. . You can't really see it from the video's, but its pretty noticeable - which is why there are so many crashes there. It's a combination of the road camber and people trying to show off and accelerate when they see camera's there.. . Not sure if the camber caused the rider to freak out a little - then target fixate and not do the proper thing. but you do see a small hitch in there right before he runs into them and that might be where the camber freaked him out ?

I wouldn't. I would either make sure your size is available in their selection of sizes or get a pair of real motorcycle boots. The ankle is a spot I would protect real well in track events like this.

I've almost exclusively done the two days. I've recently did the one day (tried to do 2 x one days back to back) and have to tell you - the two day camp is so much better, more attentive and more informative that I will pretty much go out of my way to stay with the two days. I noticed some people saying the single days are "less rushed' and I think that that concept is being mis-applied. You might be less rushed in that you get to sit around for 20 extra minutes every rotation, but the on track coaching is shorter, the off track coaching is also shorter and you just get less time. To give an example - on a single day session, you might get the coach to notice you from behind and take you around for 1/2 a lap, maybe a full if you're lucky. Off track - you split time with 3 people and its a few minutes. On two day camps, due to 2 : 1 ratio, he might catch up with you twice in a session and/or lead you around for quite a bit depending upon length of track. That third person is huge because he has to debrief a third (cutting into his on-track time) and on-track coach a third person (cutting your on-track coaching again by 50%). That's the definition of being "rushed". Besides, I'd rather be out there after 20-25 minutes to try what I've just been corrected on rather than waiting close to an hour before getting out there again. So, if your budget can take the hit - the 2 day camp is a much better option. It's not just measured as 5 on-track sessions vs 7 (because based on the amount of coach time, the 5 on-track single days might equate to only 3 on the 2 day camps). You're paying to be there for the coaching not the number of track sessions. And the more time spent with the coach on and off the track is what you're looking for. Ironically I would reverse what people think - if you're a regular track day rider and are stuck/ingrained in the 3 rotation or 4 rotation setup, then go for the single days. If you're not stuck in that mental way - or a novice, seriously consider the 2 day as the better way to train.

well I am already inadequate, but yeah I agree with you - makes it even more so. . .

Posted this in another thread - but this is Canepa at imola on a Ducati 1199r. Stunned at how fast the bike can be quick turned. Makes me really want to go work on quick turning the bike when I get back out on track. He's probably quick turning side to side 2x faster than I'm turning going to one side. . . I mean I see the instructors just quick turning with ease during the school - but seeing it on video gives an entirely different feel to it. . Gotta lot of work to do. . . Imola Almeria

If you want a nice Ducati video, check this video of Canepa at Imola riding the Ducati 1199r Look how fast those quick turns are - makes me want to go out and really work on quick turns. Stunned at how fast the bike is turned from side to side. . .

mv f3 has fueling issues (real bad ones). I'd avoid like the plague. ..

an i4 like an mv Agusta - surreal. . . The bmw S1000rr - great performing bike but no soul to me. Love the Duc's and the torquey v-twins as they work great for street and track.

they ran the second day at Infineon and even the morning with the slight misture from morning dew/fot - it was a bit slick in the morning. .. cleared up nicely. First time on this track and it was one helluva good experience. Very technical and tricky track but was worth it. . .

However- you do realize you won't know where "max lean" is until you go down. And that "max lean" is dependent upon more factors than just the bike. It depends on type of tires, what type of tires, temperature of said tires, surface traction, where your weight is when that lean is attained, speed, etc. . . So its not a quantifiable entity to just get to one particular lean angle. . I think you're better off trying to say - I'd like to take this corner faster and how to go about doing it, than saying, I want to lean the bike over more. Because who knows - you might just be at 'max lean' right now for all anybody knows.

I think some people like the single days because its actually "like" a track day but instructional (outside that some track operators are trying to do some half-ass instruction so that they can market or encourage more people to attend their track days). If you want a track day where its 20 minutes on, some class, and 20 minutes of tooling around your bike, chatting with others, hanging out - then the 1 days make more sense. If you're going because you want to go and learn, do, and ride as much as possible - then the 2 days with more sessions, more instruction, more comprehensive all day schedule makes a lot more sense. I think the 2 days are more like "camp" and the 1 days are more like a track day (albeit structured and instructional). Don't interpret that as CSS is anything remotely close to a regular "track day", but as a comparison to what the 'feeling' is. . . The difference is also this - if you removed bikes from the equation and say proximity to the track. If you had to travel to a CSS class a few states away. Would you do the 2 day or 2 single days ? Basically removing the "single day equation", the "ride my own bike equation", etc. . And I think the answer is that you would want to go to get as many track sessions, and learning in as you could feasibly pack in a single day. And thats where the 2 days come into play. ..