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53Driver

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Everything posted by 53Driver

  1. Thanks coach - I'm missing something important here. I'll do more research, but this may have to wait until 27 May. Happy 5/5!
  2. If I may, Yakaru is also well versed and I've found her postings I've read in other threads to be spot on. 1. I remember reading about how a "high-side" begins...with the aft end of the bike suddenly pushing on the steering stem while the front tire isn't in line. The bike stands up. This can be caused by releasing the rear brake with tires not in line. Or with a sudden acceleration with tires not in line. But pushing on that steering stem is bad when tires are out of line. In a turn, when the throttle is chopped, (or rear brake briefly applied), the front tire is loaded, the front tire has that sudden extra drag, the back of the bike is still moving faster, it briefly pushes on the steering stem, and the bike wants to stand up. Got it. I hope. 2. Rolling on throttle will not cause a lean angle change - got it. But given the same lean angle, with an increase in throttle, the radius of the turn will run wider, correct? And to keep the same radius of turn the lean angle must be increased? Again, I think we're all in the same hymnal, driving toward the same page. Thanks for the guidance, Coach!
  3. Got on the F6B and patronized a local restaurant that was opening backup - the Tin Cow. The exuberance of the staff getting back to work was great to see.
  4. Hopefully it will be "up" and available at Barbers!
  5. r=mph.... "stand up" may be my semantics for "with a given speed & lean angle and adding rpms, the bike will run wider circles" If the rear tire is suddenly slowed, the bike wants to run wide too. But yes, I'm ready for 'coaching' too. And a refill of Blanton's.
  6. When we "weight the pegs," it's not just 'moving the body', is it? Do we not actively shift the application point of some our body weight to a lower point on the motorcycle's frame? If your bum is lightly riding on the seat and your weight is on the peg wouldn't the resulting moment about the peg would be proportional to how much weight we actually applied? Or are there so many other forces involved at track speeds that this is completely negligible? I'm guessing for Trials and other slow speed activities, it's a lot more effective as those guys don't even rate a seat.
  7. As a preface, I read Coach's question as "the bike is already IN the turn and NOW the line needs to be tighter." And since 'experience' seems to matter, I'm over 20 years and 100s of thousands of miles on two wheels. NONE on track. I got my first sportbike 4 months ago - pics of the pretty girl are elsewhere in these hallowed pages - but I have been studying Keith Code and Nick Ienatsch for over 6 years. Why? I teach the MSF Courses for a large manufacturer and for the Navy/Marine Corps. I'm also a 24 year USMC helicopter test pilot with a heavy background in helicopter aerodynamics and systems engineering. And, if we're throwing diplomas around, I can compete in that category as well. But....I don't think any of that really matters because we're all on the forum to enhance our understanding and I think we are actually all singing from the same hymnal, and maybe even on the same song. So, my initial response is in bold with all y'all's comments under each point so we can compare apples & apples: To tighten up the line while in a turn, the rider needs to increase the rotational moment about the CG of the motorcycle in the direction intended. No counter point to this that I saw. How that happens is by altering one (or more) of the variables which dynamically create that moment as quickly, efficiently, and as stable as possible since if you've misjudged the corner and need to tighten the line while in the turn, your "big" thought bubble will be indicating your religious preferences and/or defecation options... Again, no one had issue with this statement either. These are in no particular order as the rider will need to change what isn't already incorporated or possibly maxed out. Assuming the rider is ALREADY in the turn, he may have some of these parameters "maxed out" so other techniques need be employed quickly. 1. Increase the lean angle through more aggressive counter-steering - if traction is available for that (as mentioned above by Spinto) Yakaru - "I have concerns about how you explained this -- once you're at lean you stop counter steering, the bike maintains the line. If you need to tighten it then you can counter steer more, though there's concerns here (e.g. rolling on and adding lean is a quick way to crash). The term "aggressive" is a flag for me -- while there are advantages to a decisive countersteer input you don't want to be 'stabby' about it and if you're already at lean I might back down my rate in order to 'listen' to the bike better." Me - You are 100% correct, I used the word 'aggressive' inappropriately. Perhaps 'with purpose' would have been better. If the bike is already in the turn, it's going to take quick, smooth inputs to correct whatever the rider missed on the approach. "Increasing lean angle smoothly and correctly" is better verbiage. Thank you! 2. RPMs (maintain or increase because slowing makes the bike stand up) Spinto - "Just one point....Slowing the bike while in a corner will cause it to fall NOT stand up.....more throttle in a corner will cause the bike to want to stand up!...therefore more steering input required." Yakaru - "I'm really curious why you feel this is the case. While a sudden chop of the throttle will send you even wider, a slow roll off won't (see the double apex mention in the Twist film, if you have access). In fact, it is usually the opposite -- why do you slow way more for a hairpin? To quote another school "Speed equals radius" (at a given lean angle, bp, etc.)" also "speeding up won't make the bike want to stand up. It will widen the turn but go out in a parking lot and just spin circles and roll on, careful not to steer. Your circles will widen but the bike won't stand -- slow back down and your radius will reestablish itself." Me - In the Advanced Rider Course, we do a drill where the students ride an 80' circle at theoretically constant speed and constant lean (they, like all of us, do the best they can do). At one point in the circle, we have them roll off the throttle a bit and/or 'scrub a little speed' with the brakes. The bike wants to stand up, requiring more pressure on the inside handgrip to maintain the same radius of turn. This is in complete concurrence with Yakaru's second point. I do slow more for a hairpin, but again, my premise was that we are already in the turn making corrections. And as Spinto points out, yes, if I do have more lean angle available, I'm going to have to add a wee bit of throttle to keep from falling over. Those two techniques need to work in combination. As far as the double apex throttle control - I'm on personally unfamiliar, but not shaky ground. As I understand it, at the exit of the first turn, any throttle application that was applied 'evenly, smoothly & constantly' through that first turn - and then after the bike is as straight up as it's going to get, turn permitting - is then maintained or retarded as required for the next turn. 3. More lateral weight shift (into the direction of the turn) - no objection here 4. More forward weight shift (to load up the front wheel) - no objection here 5. Peg pressure (in conjunction with weight shift to amplify/stabilize a pivot steering point) Yakaru - "your mention of pivot here is throwing me, as usually I think of pivot steering as having my weight 'cross body' (balance my left hand to my right peg) for "strength with stability" in fast steering situations (especially to overcome momentum effects at higher bike speeds) whereas most people who talk about peg weighting discuss it in regards to weighting the inside peg. The fact of the matter is that "weighting" the inside peg really doesn't do anything. The majority of what you notice if you've ever tried it is usually more the shift of body weight which is far more effectively done by moving the upper body to the inside of the bike. Since you're on the bike you're fighting physics -- for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. The forces you're putting into the peg just act back upon you and you're effectively in a closed system due to the tires not really taking the load (since overall it's the same) and inputting them into the road (since Earth IS a separate system)." Me - in another thread that you & I both responded to, pivot steering was discussed. Your paragraph is spot on - I agree 110%. I actually referenced the NO BS bike in that thread. If the rider, in mid turn extremis however, is pre-positioned for an outside pivot steering point, making the necessary, timely corrections by weight 'cross body' to the handgrips will be easier during that time of 'uncertainty.' And as a side note, I try very hard to never 'fight' the physics my bike, we (as well as I can) try to elegantly glide across the dance floor. For every action I make, 'her' reaction should be in harmony. But again, I've never raced or even done a track day. 6.Shifting to "proper" vision through the turn - no objection here Changing the plan mid-turn does one other thing to the rider's CPU - the brain will be rapidly (to the point of overload) sampling all the new data parameters introduced to assess their likelihood of success. - no objection here Thanks Yakaru - I really liked that video on centripetal & centrifugal forces. Lastly: Spinto - "i'll leave it them to teach you in their words and style that knowingly works." Yakura - "for not following the 'helping think through it' instruction style of the school" Coach C - "Back to the point of the bike running wide when it slows: if the rider is rolling on the throttle, then rolls off, it will run wide initially. Good discussion here." We're all thinking it through, Coach is letting us run with it for awhile. And Spinto, yes, my mind is VERY open and a ginormous blank canvas upon which the CSS staff shall paint. In 15 years of coaching Basic Riders, my favorite students are the ones who have no experience - as in they have no habits to break. I'm hoping that this will apply to my sportbike career. I've had no formal instruction in riding on track and I'm going to get arguably the best training there is. My purpose in engaging the forums is to clarify concepts I've been reading about in KC's TWOTW 1 & 2, "The Soft Science of Road Racing Motorcyles", and Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques." The more I can get clarified BEFORE class, the more attention I can devote to new things. Don't want to use my entire $10 in the classroom on nomenclature & concepts with which I could have already been somewhat familiar. Spinto - "...I wasn't wrong. Terminology is different...how others describe it will be different....not here to argue semantics. " We're all on the same page! Cheers, Steve PS - I did my best to cut 'n paste your writings in full context. My apologies if I missed anything sentient.
  8. Oh this is all great stuff! Tonight I'm gonna pour a Blanton's and respond. So looking forward to school!
  9. I'm not saying "not" to use the pegs - in fact I advocate it - please see my post above, but peg weighting ALONE will not steer the bike.
  10. Please - enlighten me! As I've said in other postings, I'm not a proud author, but please don't tell me there's a lot wrong and leave me hanging!
  11. I'm doing "Total Immersion" training - Levels 1-4 in four days. At least, that's the plan!
  12. Well, his opening claim that "riders steer with the pegs" is blatantly false. No one steers with just the pegs - the NO BS Bike proves that. And I think the video author knows it too.... His techniques seem to be for slow speed operations - as in all his examples, he is steering, not counter-steering. Physics doesn't lie - peg weighting affects the rotational moment around the CG of the bike and this is can be used effectively in cornering requiring counter steering. Cheers, Steve
  13. As I prepare for my first CSS experience, these concepts/thoughts/points are ringing so VERY true! This is gonna be great!
  14. Sunday went to the Blackwater State Forest and played cornering techniques at 65%. What fun! Didn't cross any state lines, but did find some really great BBQ!
  15. To tighten up the line while in a turn, the rider needs to increase the rotational moment about the CG of the motorcycle in the direction intended. How that happens is by altering one (or more) of the variables which dynamically create that moment as quickly, efficiently, and as stable as possible since if you've misjudged the corner and need to tighten the line while in the turn, your "big" thought bubble will be indicating your religious preferences and/or deification options... These are in no particular order as the rider will need to change what isn't already incorporated or possibly maxed out. 1. Increase the lean angle through more aggressive counter-steering - if traction is available for that (as mentioned above by Spinto) 2. RPMs (maintain or increase because slowing makes the bike stand up) 3. More lateral weight shift (into the direction of the turn) 4. More forward weight shift (to load up the front wheel) 5. Peg pressure (in conjunction with weight shift to amplify/stabilize a pivot steering point) 6.Shifting to "proper" vision through the turn Changing the plan mid-turn does one other thing to the rider's CPU - the brain will be rapidly (to the point of overload) sampling all the new data parameters introduced to assess their likelihood of success. And all this occurs in those elapsed 1.7 seconds when the rider realized he's misjudged the turn to the endstate - hopefully rubber side still down and lesson learned. More coffee....Cheers!
  16. Nope! Great ride today! Of course, I was crossing the state lines on rural two lane roads - lol. And while Hwy 41 is fun, classifying it with Hwy 129 is a severe mis-comparison! Cheers, Steve
  17. Hotfoot, Any and all are welcome! I'm looking forward to meeting all y"all! And as far as figuring out who I am? I'm terribly afraid it will be obvious! Cheers, Steve
  18. Hmmmm.......very interesting! Let's see how I do at Barbers first.
  19. The Constitution is my guidance & friend. Power possessed politicians? Not so much... Riding from Pensacola to Camden, AL today - AL hwy 41 is called the "Baby Dragon" or "Southern Dragon" - we'll see....
  20. I'll have some "diet beer" for you in the fridge just in case! I'm SO looking forward to this!
  21. In Northwest Florida we've had great weather, and I've put over 3,000 miles on the K1200S and 2,000 miles on the F6B since early February. Granted, finding a curvy road in these parts is quite difficult, so I broke a few legislative edicts and rode to NW Georgia more than a few times...
  22. Hey guys! I got the email that Barbers is a "GO!" I'll be rolling into the track infield in the trailer Saturday or Sunday and leaving Friday or Saturday. So, if anyone see this rig and this bike, please don't hesitate to pound on the hatch! I'll have good chow and better libations. Cheers, Steve
  23. Gents, I rode to Dallas Friday, setup my parents with two weeks of food, did some chores, and then rode back to Pensacola on Monday. 1700+ miles on 4 days. Unfortunately wasn't a social trip - next time Red, let's rendezvous assuming the rendezvous places are open! I can't wait for the world to get healthy and for CSS Barber to happen! Cheers, Steve
  24. Semper Fi! Concur on the coaching conclusion. Cheers!
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