michael engel

much appreciated guys

hey guys its been awhile since ive posted, but i had a question: i am putting a set of vortex rears on my '06 636. im 5'8" but i have a 32in inseam. i know that it feels better when i put less weight on the bars and more on my feet but im unsure where i should place the pegs. setting them high and forward helps keep the weight on my feet but i feel a little compacted. pushing them back pinches the brake lines. i definitely want to set them higher because i was dragging my stock pegs. any advise? oh and this is for a race bike.

by "rebounding" i meant when the tire falls back towards the turn after countersteering to get the bike leaned over. i have had a few snappy standups under heavy TB (usually under "oh sh**" circumstances), but i havent tuck it yet because of it. my weight is split between my outside butt cheek, outside knee (against the tank) and my inside foot. my outer leg is really only "calf raising" against the tank and foot peg but holds my body up.

using surf board grips on my tank i was able to put all of my weight on my toes and holding the tank with my knee leaving very minimal pressure on the bars (ala lean bike). this has worked very well for me in controlling the bike, but occasionally i still wash the front end. i have caught it a few times but most of the time it leads to me low siding. i had my suspension tuned for my weight and i am running qualifiers. when i turn my weight is already shifted (i do this before braking) i am "calf raising" the outside leg gripping with my knee, pressing against the bar until i reach my lean angle then relax and let the wheel rebound (i seem to be crashing before the wheel rebounds) and pressing down on the inside peg (which seems to help me turn a lot faster). on a good corner i can drop the bike ('06 ninja 636) into the turn and when i am mid corner i can take my hand off of the bar and control the throttle with only a few fingers. i usually feel so stable that is why it is frustrating when i seem to low side out of now where. i am also low siding at different lean angles from peg draggers to chicken strippers, but it is always before the tire rebounds after turn in. any ideas???

My take: Slow in, quick flick, less time in full lean = sooner up out of lean and faster back on the gas, quicker to next corner. My class is in 11 days. I will find out then. got it!

getting on the gas the soonest vs. getting off the gas the latest. hmmm. your comments did make me rethink a lot turns that i thought were suitable for trailbraking. they also helped me answer my question that i posted in the other thread. i think i get it now, i need to adjust my lines so that i can turn quicker, reach max lean angle sooner, and throttle on sooner! if im turning in later (keith has mentioned before that riders often turn in too soon) i can shift my braking zone ahead and carry a higher entry speed plus get on the gas quicker, thanks racer.

"lowest overall time by cornering more slowly" say what??? this doesnt make any sense at all. the amount of throttle that can be applied while leaned over is limited (more accurately, the rate at which throttle is applied) but if i am applying the throttle at the same point in the turn (at, just before, or just after the apex depending on the corner) as someone entering slowly how are they going to be faster than me, especially if i have a higher corner speed and we are taking similar lines?? im not doubting the philosophy, im just trying to understand it and im a little slow.

what exactly does this mean?? obviously higher corner speed while maintaining the ideal line is preferable so why do people say this? i always took it as a reference to movements i.e slowly shifting my body weight, slowly rolling on the throttle at apex etc.. and as a reference to perception i.e. looking through the turn to decrease the perception of speed or "slow it down" in my head. to me, it should be: slow in=fast out i havent signed my world superbike contract as a factory ducati rider yet so please guys tell me where im getting this wrong

but isnt the whole point to maintain the intended line? going faster (higher rate of speed in a specific section of the turn) isnt necessarily the goal if it takes you off of your line *cough bayliss*. im a total newb, but i cant say for sure when i trail the brakes and when i dont but i know i do it often. in every intentional case (not the "oh ###### tooo fast!! case) i begin releasing the brake just before turn in and trail off as i lean with zero brake pressure by the time my knee hits the ground. that is because as soon as i reach max lean angle im rolling on the gas. for me TB has two great advantages: i control the rebound effect after hard braking and i can brake a few feet later and scrub off the last bit of speed in the turn while maintaining my line. stu, racer, keith; if this sounds bad please correct me.

hey guys thanks for the input. unfortunatly i think it would be cheaper now if i keep my kawi and just ship it and race prep it, then selling it and taking a hit on the loan that i owe plus i would have to buy another bike anyway to compete. are groups B and C pretty fun??

ive been rifing for 2 years and completed the level 1,2 a year ago. i currently ride a '06 636 but i plan on selling it soon and buying a cheap race bike. I wanted to compete this season in the northeastern division but im unsure which class i should enter. the only bikes that i have found for sale that seem affordable (under $4000) are sv650s. i hear they are great bikes but are a significant step down from what im riding now. i want something that will be fun but moderatly challenging to race. not a honda F3 but too extreme yet like a '05 zx-10 any advise is much appreciated

i usually dont run wide. What happens is i turn too hard for the corner (or i dont go into the corner with enough speed, however you want to look at it) so i apply the throttle to make my line wider and maintain my lean angle. When i need to tighten my line i just relax the throttle a bit. On a bad day i cant find the sweet spot and first apply too much throttle and overcorrect a slow entry speed then im forced to relax the throttle to tighten the line. Ideally i would like to go into a corner at bonzai speed and hold the correct line while maintaining throttle proportional to the turn (by proportional i mean slowly apply throttle on increasing radius turns and slowing closing throttle on DR turns and maintaining a constant throttle for constant turns)

got it! going faster through the corner means higher entry speed.. higher entry speeds need better visual work. i was thinking that this was a throttle control issue. thanks for pointing me in the right direction kev. but just a quick side question: do literbike riders apply the throttle midway or do they solely rely on entry speed and maybe some trailbraking to set their corner speed?

i went to the december level I & II courses at infineon. i went back over my notes and remember that the point of quick turning was to quickly reach the max lean angle of the turn, at which the throttle can be reapplied lightly. im referring to track/backroad riding but i am unsure if my notes are correct or not. thanks for the higher entry speed tip. that is something i need to practise on but im still getting that little pucker effect.

i have a habit of going into a corner too slow. Realizing that i can go faster, i roll on the throttle midway even when i am at my max lean angle. My 636 doesnt argue with me, wheel spin is minimal, if any, and the bike just takes a wider arch. i know doing this on a more powerful bike can lead to disaster so is this a habit i should get out of now or can i get away with it as long as i am not too greedy on the gas? if trailbraking can be done throw the corners, why not early throttle delivery? for performance driving (which i also do) i tend to brake untill just after entry (minor trailbrake) and maintain speed untill i hit my apex then i accelerate. should i use this technique for riding as well?