RiceBurner

one way to proove they are dragging the brake into the corner is to watch the suspension travel between the front fender and front fairing. you can definately see it compress in braking, the begin to ease up as they have made the turn entry, and eventually it winds up rising up as they are on the throttle. it also makes you wish you had that kind of smoothness i'd also like to point out i think that it matter what kind of bike you are on... if you notice GP bikes use almost all of thier ground clearance while cornering, and are not at the maximum of traction because they can still brake. if you have a ninja 250 with stock everything, most likely you will not have nearly the traction left when you have attained full lean angle (ie no clearances left). plus, on a smaller bike, you want to carry speed as much as possible, because you don't have 220+ hp driving you out of the corners. this can be evidenced by looking at the lines traveled by superbike riders and supersport riders... superbikers tend to "square off the corner" to pick the bike up as soon as possible so that they can use the drive, the best part of a superbike, to get down the next straightaway, whereas supersport riders tend to carry all possible speed into the corners. another example... i heard it said that a couple years ago when ducati was dominating supersport that it was easier on the rear tire for the ducks to be able to come in a little slower, and have all that midrange oomph to drive out of the corner, while the 4 cylinders where having to come in hotter and would wind up cooking the rear tire faster due to the faster turn entry. at least i'm pretty sure that's how it went. anyways, i think the best style for a person is the one that allows that person to get around the track fastest. i nominate this thread for "longest thread on CSS forum"

something worth noting is that not even GP racers drag knee every corner. the main corners the seem to keep tucked up in more are quick transitions (chicanes) where any more body movement might destabilize the bike, and fast sweepers, where it becomes incredibly difficult to maintain posture without handlebar input with a knee out. yes, the knee can be an excelent lean angle guage, but in and of itself, sticking the knee out isn't going to get you much as far as additional cornering speed etc. rootsman has excelent advice... the first time i drug was at CSS/streets of willow, turn 3, it was the first "riders choice" session where we as the rider picked what we wanted to work on, and the instructors would keep an eye out for it. i was working on my hanging off posture, came into the corner at what seemed to be about the same as all the other laps i did, and sure enough i had contact. the important thing is that i didn't tell the instructor "knee draggin" i told him "hanging off", so i was only working on posture. once you get that smoothed out and comfortable, the knee down comes all by itself and surprizes you have fun riding

oh yeah and the driveline lash is also from small clearances between gearteeth, chain/sprocket teeth, etc. and is more than just where your engine is running in it's powerband. the powerband part has more to do with how easy it is to control your engine, and how easy it is to open the throttle at a rate which initially allows the engine to spool up at a rate that lets the clearances between teeth and whatnot gradually diminish to the point of full contact, at which point any amount of throttle can be applied with no lash. you can test this out by cruising along a straight road, neutral throttle, then chopping throttle and cracking it open. i'm sure that you will find there is some lash involved. it is much more noticable on older bikes where the driveline has been well worn. it doesn't matter what rpm range you are at, if you go abruptly from positive throttle to negative throttle, or vice-versa, there will be lash. it will be harder to detect on a newer bike that has closer tolerances in the driveline than an older model that was looser to begin with and has become more so as miles have taken thier toll. i'd be interested to know what years your gixxer and honda are, Steve.

so far what i've noticed about trail braking is that if i feel i have to trail into the corners, i haven't found the appropriate turn in point to quick flick. i rework the corner a bit, and usually am able to find a line that gives me a smoother, more comfortable line/flick-in with no perception of impending lack of traction. i would like to clear something up, or at least put my input into it... i think there is a difference between "trail braking" and "braking during corner setup". i think the former is "braking while leaning the bike, at whatever constant rate, into it's final lean angle", and the latter is "braking while you make slight adjustments to get to your turn in point, where you let off the brakes and make your final turn". i think from that we might be able to simplify things better by saying that trail braking is simply: having the brakes applied AFTER you have passed your turn in point." there is a difference between bending the bike a little to get to your turn in point, and flicking the bike over to turn when you are actually entering the corner. the best demonstration of this is in the decreasing radius corner, the rider must often make his final turn point be so deep into the corner, that it's not possible to get to it without bending your turn entry approach line. i'll be very interested to see what y'alls opinion is to my opinion and what i've noticed riding

something i've found helps out some in locking on to the bike... i noticed in TOTW2 that kieth mentioned keeping your weight off your butt and on the pegs helps during corners... i've expiriemented some, that's definately true, it adds one more suspension travel to the bike/rider unit. anyways, i've found that by keeping your rear end off the seat while traveling in a straight line and changing your throttle input, (keeping your weight off the bars also, of course) really helped me understand just where i needed to clamp/press/hold on with my legs more... i then moved up to doing it while hanging off, and not having that inside knee makes quite a bit of difference on how you clamp on... but after you get used to it you feel rock solid on the bike wether hanging or not... it also helps alot with throttle control, because you feel what the throttle is doing more, due to having to hold on with leverage more against you. i don't know if this will work for all riders, but it worked wonders for me! i'm able to hang off, knee out, butt off the seat, and roll on without having my left hand on the bar even thanks keith!!!!! btw... is this jim race of the ninja250.net forum? if so hi