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Superbike School Riding Coach
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Everything posted by Timmer

  1. Hey DrIoannis, Hmm...that map does look a little strange. There's definitely something weird going on. Here are a few things that come to my mind to check: 1. Did you unplug the stock O2 sensors? If you didn't then you will have the ECU's Autotune and Power Commander's Autotune fighting each other. 2. Do you have an error codes on the Power Commander? You can check this in the Power Commander software. 3. Have you updated to the latest firmware? You can find this on the Power Commander website. Those are the things off the top of my head... In answer to your other question about the quickshifter... Autotune only works within a window of AFRs that is specified in the Power Commander. We did this so that Autotune would not run during cases like quickshifting when the AFR goes very lean or also when the O2 sensor goes bad and reads very rich or very lean. Hope that helps, Timmer
  2. The Power Commander 5 for the S1000RR is already released. The part number is 12-012. I can't give a concrete date of when the Ignition Module will be released, but if I had to guess, I would say within the next month or two.
  3. Hey Mike, Those are good points for sure. Datalogging is very important to using and understanding our products. That said...we actually already have some of the capability you are talking about. 1. The Control Center software for both Power Commander IIIUSB and Power Commander 5 have live gauges that show throttle position, RPM, and ignition change, along with a bunch of other channels. You can also see a "cell tracer" that shows your current position in the map table. You can see things happen live, but the softwares currently doesn't do any datalogging. 2. The PCIIIUSB channels can also be logged with our dyno software(WinPEP7) alongside power, torque, and any other channels being logged with the dyno. You can view all this data in the dyno graph. We currently don't have this same ability with PC5, but we are working on it. 3. We also have datalogging capability with our LCDs, which we offer for both PCIIIUSB and PC5. You can log all the channels on the Power Commander, download the logged file to your computer, and view the data in Excel. You can create a graph of this data in Excel pretty easily. On the PC5s, you can also log the data from our Autotune kits, so that you can see air/fuel ratio alongside all the Power Commander channels. We are currently working on a bunch of new stuff, and one of the main goals is to make datalogging capability and experience better than it is now. We're hopeful that we can begin to release some of the new stuff very soon. Hope that helps. Best, Timmer
  4. Hey Mike, Now I'm following you. Those are excellent questions. Why don't more companies offer products to tune ignition timing? First off...Dynojet is currently working toward making an Ignition Module for the S1000RR, so look for that in the next few months. FYI...One of the things that slows our development down is when we can't find the connectors we need to make our wiring harness. After doing this a while we have a pretty good library of connectors, but BMW decided to use a new one which we have had trouble sourcing. It's moving along now though. 1. The main reason why other companies don't offer more ignition timing products....it's HARD! Haha. Seriously though, it takes a lot of time, money, and development to make ignition products when compared to fuel controllers. A PIGGYBACK fuel injection box(Power Commander, Bazzaz, etc.) is relatively easy. All we have to do there is take in a fuel injector pulse and make it bigger or smaller to add or subtract fuel. Replicating the exact timing of a fuel injector pulse is not terribly critical. Doing PIGGYBACK ignition is more complicated. We have to take in the pulse, figure out exactly when it happened, and then replicate the exact size, and also place it correctly in TIME to within microseconds. The circuitry that is needed to do this is also more complex. It's pretty tricky. The other way of controlling ignition is to ignore the inputs from the ECU(non-piggyback). This takes even more time to develop because you have to figure out the exact ignition curve for EVERY running condition of the bike and program it into the box. Like I said, a company could spend a lot of time and money doing this. 2. The other reason is that on many stock bikes the ignition timing is already pretty good, so the gains that you get for most bikes are not as profound as the gains you get by getting the fueling right. The majority of our customers will buy common aftermarket parts(exhaust/air filter) that effectively change the air flow through the motor. This produces a DIRECT need to change the fueling to make the motor run well after these parts are installed. Adding these types of parts usually does not require a change to the ignition timing. The only time you really need to change the ignition timing is if the stock ECU's timing is poor(like you mentioned), if you install aftermarket parts that change the compression and/or heat of the incoming air/fuel charge, or if you are using a lower octane fuel. On the big V-twins we usually see pretty good gains when we advance the ignition timing a bit, but most of the sportbikes run pretty aggressive ignition timing from the factory. Why is it so hard to tune ignition timing? Probably the biggest reason here is there is no straight forward process to do it! There is no sensor that quantifies the amount of ignition timing you are running. Knock sensors will tell you if you are running too much under certain conditions, but you can't always get an engine to knock. For example, up here in Montana you can advance the ignition timing a bunch without getting an engine to knock. You can advance it so much that it will show a decrease in torque because the early combustion is counteracting the upward movement of the piston, but it can do this without knocking. Likewise, how do you measure "not enough"? The only method I have heard of is the "change and check" method. You do a dyno run, make a change to the ignition timing, and then do another dyno run to see if it made an improvement. This method works pretty good, but takes a lot of time/dynoruns to figure out. This topic is kind of complicated, but I hope that starts to clear it up for you a little bit. Let me know if you have more questions about it. Best, Timmer
  5. Hey Mike! I'm not totally sure I understand your question...want to make sure I know exactly what your asking. Do you mean "why don't more companies offer products that allow you to tune ignition timing?" OR do you mean "why is it so hard to tune ignition timing?"? Also...which BMW are you referring to? S1000RR? Best, Timmer
  6. Glad you like the new toys Dan! If you want to start doing some serious experimenting/tuning then you might want to get our Autotune and LCD. It will cost you bit up front, but will probably save you money in the long run if you have to take your bike back to the tuning center a few times. You will also get piece of mind with the tune, since you are the one doing it. With the LCD you can datalog all of the channels on the PC5, Ignition Module and Autotune, so you can really see what the bike is doing. You can datalog while you ride and then look at the data in the pits or at home on your computer. The channels on the PC5 and Autotune that you can datalog includes RPM, throttle position, speed(if connected/calibrated), gear(if connected/calibrated), fuel change %, ignition change, injector duty cycle, and air/fuel ratio. If you feel like spending the money on other toys, then I would just take it to the local tuning center like you said. Just make sure that if you get the Autotune, that you block off the PARE valve on your bike before you turn on the Autotune. There should be instructions with the Autotune on how to do this. The PARE valve squirts fresh air from the airbox directly into the exhaust and the oxygen sensor of the Autotune will read this if you don't block it off. The Autotune will think that the engine is running lean and put a bunch of fuel in that area, even though the engine is not running lean. This has been the cause of A LOT of tech calls for us, so just wanted to make sure that you get the info.
  7. Hi Ismaic,

    Dynojet offers classes for our customers that have bought a dyno, but unfortunately we don't offer them to the general public.

    There is a bunch of info in our Power Commander software guide, and you can probably also find a bunch of info on the web.



  8. Sorry you ruined a shift rod Dan, but glad you got it figured out. Hope you enjoy the quickshifter...they're pretty fun.
  9. Dan, Just make sure you are smoking all the other guys on the track and I doubt you will catch any grief about the light purple laptop. Haha. In answer to your question...the quickshifter is just a simple switch. When you push on the shift lever with enough force it closes the switch inside the quickshifter. The Power Commander detects that the switch was closed and kills fuel and/or spark for the duration of the kill time. You can actually use a voltmeter/multimeter to test the quickshifter. Just connect both leads of your voltmeter/multimeter to the two wires from the quickshifter. With no pressure on the shift lever you should see that there is no continuity between the two wires of the quickshifter. Now press on your shift lever with a little bit of force. Your voltmeter/multimeter should now indicate that their is continuity between the two wires. Pretty simple eh? You can use the above method to test your quickshifter should you ever have problems with it.
  10. Awesome Dan! Looks like you should be ready to go. In answer to your question about ignition maps....no, we don't have any ignition maps available. There are a lot of factors that affect how much ignition advance a particular bike can run(altitude, fuel octane, modifications, etc.), so it would be impossible for us to make maps to cover all the possibilities. Remember how I told you that Honda retards the ignition timing at 100% throttle and high RPM to meet noise emissions? You can now fix this by advancing the timing in that area with the Ignition Module! Set the value in your ignition table to 7 in the 80% and 100% TP column from 8000RPM up to redline. That will perk it up in that area. The rest of the map you will have to experiment with or get it tuned on a dyno. You might want to bring your laptop to the track so you can experiment with your new toys. Best of luck, and have fun at Thunderbolt!
  11. Dan, 1. When you click the "Send Map" button it only sends the map tables. It does not send configuration changes. Configuration changes are applied when you click "Ok" in the menu boxes for the feature you are changing. When you click "Send Map" the software will send all of the tables to the PC5 and Ignition Module(assuming it is also connected to software). FYI...if you are playing with your PC5 and Ign Module at your desk, make sure that you have BOTH the PC5 and Ignition Module plugged in via USB. 2. The numbers in the ignition map are slightly different than the PC5. In the FUEL map the numbers represent % fuel change. The numbers in the IGNITION map represent degrees of advance/retard. Positive numbers are ignition advance, while negative numbers are ignition retard. 3. This is really up to you. There are varying opinions on this. Personally, I like killing both. I'd suggest trying it both ways and see which one you like better. Honestly, you may not even notice the difference between the two. Important note...when you turn the quickshifter on or change any of the settings make sure that both the PC5 AND Ignition Module are connected to the software. If you turn the quickshifter on with only the PC5 connected to software, it won't get turned on in the Ignition Module. You can do this by USBing both the PC5 and Ignition Module if you are at your desk, or by starting your bike and only USBing the PC5(assuming you have connected the CAN cable between the PC5 and Ignition Module). If both units are connected and talking to software you will see "2 Devices Connected" in the lower right corner of the software. 4. If you just bought your quickshifter, you want to use NORMALLY OPEN. This doesn't have anything to do with the PUSH or PULL type. The NORMALLY OPEN refers to the default state of the quickshifter switch. A NORMALLY OPEN quickshifter is an open switch that closes when you shift. In the past we have used a quickshifter where the default state was NORMALLY CLOSED, which is why we give the option in software. Our latest quickshifter is NORMALLY OPEN. 5. The default 65ms kill time is good to start with. Again, this is kind of a personal preference thing. I would suggest starting with the 65ms and experiment with moving it up and down to find what feels best to you. Most guys run kill times in the 50-85ms range. You CAN do gear dependant kill times, but you will need to wire the speed sensor of the bike into the PC5. From there you need to calibrate the speed input in the PC5, and then calibrate gears in the PC5. There should be instructions in the install guide that comes with the PC5 on how to do this. There is also an additional "Help" section in the PC5 Control Center software. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have anymore questions.
  12. Hey Dan, The part numbers in your shopping list look right to me. You will also need to get a shift rod like you mentioned. The part number for the shift rod you need is 32104060. The shift rod is already the correct length for your bike. You just need to remove your stock shift rod and install the Dynojet shift rod and Quickshifter in its place. The instructions that come with the PC5 and Ignition Module should be pretty good, but let me know if you have any questions. Hope you enjoy the new parts!
  13. That could definitely be the culprit. Since you have the YEC, you might try different settings with the YCC-I to see if you notice a difference. I'd be interested to hear your results.
  14. If the extra cost isn't an issue then I would go with the Quickshifter and Ignition Module. There's some varying opinions on this, but personally I think the quickshift is a little smoother when you kill spark. The other reason I would go with the Ignition Module is because you also get ignition timing control. The CBR600RR and 1000RR come from the factory with retarded ignition timing at full throttle and peak power RPM. I've heard that Honda does this so that the bike will conform to noise emissions, which gets tested at 1/2 the RPM where peak power occurs. By retarding the timing up top they make peak power occur at a lower RPM. No, I'm not making that up...haha. Anyway, we sell a device called an IRC that fools the ECU so that it doesn't retard the ignition timing up top. You get the same result with an Ignition Module since it gives ignition timing control. You might also get some gains in the lower RPM by advancing the timing a bit. AND....You also get our Launch Control and Pit Lane Speed Limiter features with the Ignition Module...if those interest you at all. Hope that helps. Post up any other questions if you've got em.
  15. Good thoughts there Kai. One thing though with a fly by wire systems...even if you are WOT that doesn't necessarily mean that the throttle blades are all the way open. You will notice this the most at lower-mid RPM. You could have the throttle all the way to the stop, but the throttle blades might only be 50% open because of the fly by wire. On a stock R6 the throttle blades don't go to 100% until about 7-8000RPM. The throttle blades also back off to 80% at around 14000RPM. A small change to the fly by wire profile in these areas would be noticeable for sure. Like you said, it could also be the ignition timing profile or the YCC-I profile. Those would also be noticeable. You might see if you can find a stock configuration that you can load and view in your YEC. Then you could compare the two. I'm not really sure where you could find that, but I would be really interested to see what the difference between the two is. Cool stuff.
  16. Sorry for the late response Dan....I've been locked in the dyno room for the last couple weeks. In answer to your question.... I would suggest getting a fuel controller first(Power Commander, Bazzaz, etc.). When we make a map for a stock bike, we often see good gains in how the stock bike runs once we are finished mapping it. Eventhough most people equate a Power Commander to more maximum power(full throttle, high RPM), we also get a lot of positive feedback from our customers about improved throttle response and smoother running of the engine in other areas. If you decide later to add on an exhaust and/or air filter, you will already have the fuel controller to adjust your fueling and make the bike run the best it can with your new parts. Quickshifters are also a really neat addition. Not only does it feel and sound cool, it also makes an improvement in lap times. Dynojet offers a bunch of products for your bike. I would start by getting a Power Commander V(part number 16-001). Your bike has 8 injectors, so if you want to add the quickshifter you will also need to get either the SFM(SFM-1)to kill the upper injectors, or the Ignition Module(6-70) to kill spark. The Ignition Module will also allow you to adjust ignition timing, which will give even further power gains on your bike. Hope that answers your questions. Please let me know if you have any others. I'll make sure I get back to you sooner this time. Best, Timmer
  17. Awesome input BLSDJS...and thanks! Just post up any questions you have about any of this stuff and I will be glad to answer them.
  18. Check this out.... Below is a picture of the exhaust from the new Yamaha 990cc MotoGP bike. Those are oxygen sensors installed in the header pipes...one for each cylinder! It gives you an idea of how serious the GP teams are about getting the proper air/fuel ratio on their bikes.
  19. Lean, rich, or just right? Getting the proper amount of fuel to a motor during any kind of running condition is essential to making it run right. This is why products like the Power Commander, Bazzaz Z-Fi, and others are so popular. Those products give the ability to change the fueling of the bike for different operating conditions. It is also why dyno shops stay pretty busy measuring and tuning bikes. So what do we use to describe how much a bike is rich or lean? The answer is....air/fuel ratio. First, a few definitions... Ratio: a relationship between two quantities, normally expressed as the quotient of one divided by the other. Example: The ratio of 7 to 4 is written as 7:4 or 7/4. Air/Fuel Ratio (abbreviated "AFR"): the mass ratio of air to fuel in an internal combustion engine. Example: An air/fuel ratio of 13:1 means a mixture of 13 parts of air and 1 part of fuel. Stoichiometric air/fuel ratio(abbreviated "stoich"): A ratio of air and fuel such that exactly enough air is provided to completely burn all of the fuel. Example: The stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of petrol(gasoline) is 14.7:1. Oxygen Sensors Air/fuel ratio is measured with an oxygen sensor(O2 sensor). The oxygen sensor is either fitted to the exhaust pipe and placed directly in the exhaust stream, or has the exhaust pumped to it(like on a dyno). Most common AFR range for petrol(gas): 10:1(Very rich)-High concentration of fuel in the air/fuel mixture 11:1 12:1 12.8-13:1(Rich)-this region is typically where you will see a bike make the best peak horsepower(100% throttle, high RPM). 14:1 14.7:1(Stoich AFR for gasoline)-this is the AFR that your bike will run when it is using the oxygen sensor(low throttle, low RPM). It is the "cleanest" burn for emissions. 15:1(Lean) 16:1 17:1 18:1(Very lean)-Low concentration of fuel in the air/fuel mixture Many guys have their own opinion of what they feel is "rich" or "lean", but air/fuel ratio is what puts a number to it. I'm sure this might stir up some questions. Let them rip!
  20. That's awesome guys. Glad I could clear it up a little for you. That was the quick and simple on that stuff, but there are definitely more details. If you guys think of any questions on that stuff just let me know.
  21. Yes...some of the modern bikes are running knock sensors, but not all of them yet. I'm pretty sure the BMW S1000RR's have one.
  22. Another good question mugget. Everyone that I have talked to seems to think that those fuel additives you can buy to clean your injectors are basically a load of BS. As long as the injector is regularly being used, it usually takes quite a long time before they will get gummed up. I think most of us don't own bikes old enough that would even start to have gummed up injectors...Haha. You might want to get it checked after you have put some serious miles on the bike or if it has been sitting for more than a year, but for the most part I wouldn't worry about it.
  23. Yes...there is a "too far" when it comes to ignition timing just like anything else. The result of that would indeed be less power. However, most manufacturers do not flirt with running ignition timing that close to the limit of knocking. They will usually be conservative with the final ignition timing advance they program into the ECU. They do this because they do not want a bike that will have 10's of 1000's of miles(or more) put on it to knock under ANY circumstances. This is where the power is to be had. In the few hundred or so vehicles I have tuned on the dyno and at the track, most of them gained power just by advancing the timing a few degrees in some area of the map.
  24. Yeah you can't really cater to all needs and desires. Well, you could ... but it wouldn't be economically viable for Dynojet to do it. I just remembered yesterday what really makes the YEC box stand out from the PC3: midrange power. With the YEC box, the R6 will do a very controlled wheelie under hard acceleration, something I've never experienced when running with the PC3 (on the same bike) - several racers I know have noticed this too about the YEC box. I cannot give you hard data, since this would require two dynoruns back to back with each setup (and it takes 1-2 hours to swap the wiring loom over), something I've never bothered to do. But if you really want to know why, it should be simple enough to buy a YEC box with loom and data cable and try it at Dynojet HQ Kai Hmm...that is interesting. One of the things I know you can do with the YEC stuff is change the fly-by-wire throttle profile. The Power Commander can't change that. That could definitely have an effect in the mid range. Maybe this could possibly be the change you are noticing?
  25. Ok...good to know you are running the Ignition Module. Now that I know that...here's another thing to check. When you run the little "Quickshift Enable" program, make sure that the PCIIIUSB and Ignition Module are connected AND both powered up. The best way to do this is starting the bike. One common problem guys will run into is they will run the "Quickshift Enable" program with only the PCIIIUSB powered up(key on). With the bike started, first open the PCIIIUSB software to make sure that the Igntion Module shows up. Then run the "Quickshift Enable" program again. Click the button to disable it, and then click it again to re-enable it. If both modules are powered up it will ensure that the quickshifter gets turned on in both boxes. Hope that helps. Let me know how it goes.
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