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supernouht

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Everything posted by supernouht

  1. in both pictures those guys are going very fast around a tight corner, so there are heavy g forces pressing them into the bike as they go around the corner, they don't really need to hold on at all other than to steer
  2. What's that about only thinking you're going in too fast dave?? What you did souds about like what happened to me, only when I stood it up I didn't have a nice run out, I hit curb.
  3. I'm not sure i COMPLETLY understand what your problem is here, but when entering a corner you first countersteer to get the bike leaned over, but once the bike is leaned over and you have some G forces holding you at an angle if you make small steering adjustments with the bars the bike will steer like a car more and not countersteer, but if you make more sudden larger movements it will go back to affecting your lean angle and countersteer again....what i am saying is bikes don't alwayse countersteer and they're not supposed to.....for instance try walking your bike, while you are holding it upright it will have 0 countersteer...so it could be that what you are experiencing is normal and you just have to get used to it...are you a new rider?
  4. What's the big deal about leaning the bike over anyway? I have an NSR250 and was hitting the edges of my boots on the road within the first week of gettin gmy learners permit, later I learned that if i moved my body off the bike to the inside before a corner I could turn more sharply without having to lean the bike over so far. It's all about turning the bike, who cares if it's leaned over far if it's going where you want it to? Though if you really just want to make your footpeg touch the ground try not hanging off the bike at all, just steer it with the bars and don't use your bodyweight at all and the first time you come into a sharp corner with a little speed you'll findout real fast how far you are capable of making the bike lean! You can get to the edge of your tire effortlessly this way. Good luck!
  5. This hill however was much too steep and twisty for no brakes though, you just pick up too much speed and must slow down or crash after a couple corners, also my bike is small and light and does not noticably lose speed simply by turning. My leg is almost completly healed by the way, all the scabs are off...my ankle is just a tiny bit swollen still.
  6. well i think basically if you're comming into a high speed corner you wanna get your head, shoulders and butt over to the inside before the turn (low speed tight corners you can stay upright and lean the bike under you) however you can get your body mass over to the inside most quickly and comfortably for YOU i think is the right way....everyone moves a little different you know? in my opinion it should just come naturally if you know basically what you're suppose to do ....also keep your spine parallel to the bike if you can, good luck
  7. Hi guys, I know this thread is a little old but I had some thoughts to share on it that a couple people hinted at but didn't really get into. I read this article and thought about it for a little while and I totally agree with most of you that say this information is totally useless on a modern sportbike on a racetrack, BUT I think most of the information in that article could be usefull if you are riding a big heavy bike a with sloppy suspention where the back end is so heavy that it's going to want to swing around the front end when you apply the front brake only, also the same goes if you are riding on the street in the rain or snow or dirt when it's real slippery and you're trying not to fall while still trying to go at an enjoyable pace, and so with that being said, this information could MAYBE be a big advantage to you if you are at the track racing one day and it starts to rain unexpectedly, maybe you could use this and go though the turns a little more smoothly and with a little more speed than most of the other riders and win???
  8. hahaha oh thenks jef4y, i was actually wondering if i was spelling that right as i was writing it
  9. Well all the 500cc motogp guys slide the back to some degree Mcoy just a little more so. you don't run wide as long as your front tire still has traction, and it makes the the bike turn sharper (because you're turning with the back wheel and not just the front, so it's like rotating the whole bike a little) and yes it can make you highside, you'll see highsides a lot in 500cc. Kenny Roberts Sr. was the first to do this kind of riding in the gp's, he started being a dirt circle track racer and those guys don't even have a front brake, they just tail slide all the way around a corner with the bike drifting completly sideways while holding the bike upright by dragging their foot on the ground , watch a dirt track race and you'll get it, so when he moved into road racing he thought it was slow not to slide in the corners at all so he started doing it, but then he wasn't as stable because he couldn't drag his foot on the ground on the road bike, so he wrapped his knee in tape and started dragging his knee to hold the bike up while sliding ok, now i THINK that the operations for initiating a rear slide go something like this but don't take my word for it heh! you come into the corner maybe a little more to the inside than you normally would and tou use your rear brake a little extra just to kinda get the back loose at first and you turn the bike a little sharper than you normally would and you stay on the gas all the way through while grinding your knee slider into the road if necessairy .....but like don't try this you'll kill yourself!!!! Kenny Roberts actually has a school called the K.R.T.C. where he teaches people how to do this and he starts them out on dirtbikes on a circle track Ithink that the biggest advantage to sliding the rear is when you have to pass someone on the inside of a corner, it may or may not be the fastest way around the track, but when that nice outside real estate is taken by the guy you want to pass you can sometimes get by him on the inside this way i've only actually done a version of this once myself, but it was on the outside, i had just passed a car on the outside comming into a right hand corner and i passed him by just braking way later into the corner so then i found myself deep in the corner still going quite fast and i had to turn like yesterday so i got on both brakes hard and turned it in while still on the gas a little (because that car was still running up my backside)and the back end just came out a bit, but it was no problem i just kept the throttle steady backing off just a hair when the back wanted to drift out and made it through the corner quite quickly...anyone watching probably would have been impressed, but it was really just an f-up heh
  10. Wow this is a very interesting topic for me, It has never once occured to me to not use my rear brake, I almost always use both brakes when comming into a corner, trailbraking I usually don't use it much if at all however, but slowing down for a turn, yes definatly every time, 2 breaks will slow you down faster than one, just as long as your rear tire isn't off the ground heh! It helps to extend your arms and move as much weight to the back of the bike as possible...it's real easy to give that rear brake too much pressure though! I currently ride an NSR250 but my first bike was a 125cc yamaha flatracker from the 70's that had no front brake (wasn't designed for one).
  11. corvette95, I am probably less experienced than most of you here but I think I have some quick viewpoints that might help? The answer to the question, "when do you get back on the gas" is what you said..."as soon as you can" It sounds to me like the difference here is that these fast guys you're talking about are carrying more speed into the corner than you are and braking later, so since they are braking later the "as soon as you can" happens alot later because they are busey braking. The fastest tecnique to use changes depending on the corner and what kind of bike/tires you have and how slippery the track is that day. But keep 2 things in mind, I gather from your name that you probably started out racing cars and then went to motorcycles...most motorcycles don't actually hold a corner at a much higher speed than your corvette will, but they WILL accelorate a hell of a lot faster and probably brake a lot faster?, so the fastest line in your car is going to be different than the fastest line on your bike usually, and the second thing to keep in mind is that even though we spend the most time studying corners than anything else, we want to spend the LEAST time actually doing them ie in and out of that corner as fast as you can so you can start going fast again...this is more true the bigger your bike is. Hmm that wasn't as quick as i thought heh goodnight
  12. What really?? That kinda seems like cheating to me almost... I'm just imagining how easy it would be to ride a bike like that, I guess that's why i've been seeing less crashes in the moto gp lately even though they're going like 30mph faster than they were with the 2 strokes? Personally I think if they're going to allow 990cc 4 strokes, they should allow for a bigger displacemt 2-stroke, like a 700 or 750, then they might actually be competitive again? Oh well not like it relly matters I guess, I'm just a 2-stroke fan, I have a yamaha 125cc 2-stroke flat tracker and an nsr250 2-stroke streetbike.
  13. I think he's asking how to know how much to turn the bike, and how far to lean it over in a corner? Well, experienced racers use their knee to feel the ground (and sometimes to hold the bike up) in a corner so that they do not lean over too far and lose the tire, but this is usually not advisable for the street (man you could hit one of those little reflective dots with your knee! Ouch!) other than that I can't think of anything usefull to tell you to know how far to lean it, it really depends on the type of corner and your bike and what kind of tires you have, I guess it's just an experience thing, start out slow and keep doing it till you have an intuitive feel for how far you should lean the bike. Sounds like you should take the level 1 suberbike school course!
  14. Hmm interesting observation M1combat, I hadn't thought of the G forces on your body like that, personally I don't give much thought to which peg I am putting the most weight on in a corner, I just use them to hold my feet heh! Actually as you said about Valantino Rossi, if I actually wanted to I could probably take both feet off the pegs mid corner and hold myself on the bike with my legs alone and not have it affect my ability to hold the corner much if at all. As I originally said, I think it's a mute point, the pegs are just there so you have somewhere to put your feet.
  15. actually i do have something usefull to say...well i think i do at least! sometimes this happens to me, i'll space out and won't slow down enough for a corner which is a little frightening the first few times you do it, and there are 2 ways that a beginner can handle it basically, either push on the inside bar a little more (countersteer) and just lean more and get the bike to turn more sharply than you are usually comfortable with forcing your bike to do.....the other is just to give up and start using the brakes while you stand the bike up and run off the outside of the corner and stop.....well i've done the first thing a few times and it's worked and by bike DID turn sharper than it seemed like it could!!! and this was a great confidence builder!...i've done the second thing once and it sucked, i ran to the outside and slid in the dirt and hit a curb and messed up my bike and my knee and my jacket, if i were in the situation again i would have just tried to turn sharper and stuck with it, so unless the outside of a corner just has a really nice flat runout when you can ride and not fall i'd say yes countersteer and lean more and turn charper and maybe you'll surprise yourself with what you can do! as for the "countersteering" thing i've noticed that on my bike which has light steering, i will turn the bars the oppostite way i want to turn and for like 1/8th of a second it will start going the way i turned, then it becomes off balance and leans over the opposte way i turned the bars and the lean will make the bike turn, now once i am actually leaned over and turning as long as i am making small movements my bike will actually turn the direction that i turn the bars (like a car as in not countersteering!) but if i make more agressive movements while leaned over it will change the lean angle of the bike and overpower any non countersteering movements i am making andthereby switch back to a state of countersteering .....pay close attention next time you ride and you may see what i am talking about.....i've never ridden a bike with a sidecar, but i imagine that sidecar motorcycles have little or no countersteering action going on because they don't lean! so if this is true that means that if you are not affectiong your lean angle a bike will steer like a car.....except that it does affect your lean angle heh....but sometimes it doesn't....like when you're going 5mph it will steer like a car because you're not leaning ....it's really a weird thing! it's amazing how our brains just get used to this complicated action and we don't even realise what we are doing!! but if we fully understand it i belive we can command a greater and more confident controll over the bike, good day -David
  16. if you're comming in too fast just downshift and gas it and get the back end to slide way out and then plant your knee slider into the road to keep your bike from laying down and then you'll turn really sharp!!, hahaha no don't listen to me you'll kill yourself!! (although it seems to work for kenny roberts sr.)
  17. jef4y, i agree with everything you said basically, but i think that if you are conciously trying to put more weight on one peg or the other you are going to accomplish little or nothing usefull, for example you can take one of your feet off of the peg, stand up and move your whole body over onto one peg and with just the lightest touch on the opposing side handlebar you can keep the bike upright. i ride with no hands downhill whenever i can and just put it in neutral and use the rear brake with my foot and at first i tried steering by trying to stand up on one peg ot the other a little, but nothing usefull happened, what i have found works is to shift my whole upper body over to one side and then twist the bike so that it lines up with my body using the inside of my outside thigh, i can actually do some tight corners at low speed this way, this is because i'm exerting force on the top of the bike not the bottom. but yes when you are in a corner most of your body weight will be on the inside peg if your posture is correct for those who need a simple answer to the original question......but this is more of an effect than a cause, anyway, later
  18. oh i just thought of something else you can do on a motorcycle or on a bicycle, when there's no traffic ride in the middle of the road so you can feel the little reflective bumps and then look up ahead on the road and try to keep hitting all the dots
  19. use the force! you just have to feel it, get used to riding at a comfortable speed just easy curisin around town or in the hills and just never look at your bike or the ground anywhere near your bike keep your eyes and head up and scanning around up ahead on the road focus on where youre going and not where you are just keep doing this till it's natural the way i learned to do this was by accident really, by riding my bicycle on narrow 8" wide curbs in parking lots when i was in high school, if you look right down at your tire you'll fall off, you have to look at where you're going and just have faith that your wheel is where you want it, you can do the same thing by trying to keep your bicycle tire right on the white line on the edge of the bike lane, it's harder than it sounds heh, to not have you tire ever come off the line but yeah if you have a bicycle i'd try practicing your mental movie on that....a little safter than the motorcycle heh, keep an upright posture so that you can't see any part of your bicycle or motorcycle in your perifial vision and just KNOW where your tires are without looking good luck -David
  20. well you say you were off the brakes and on the gas and then the front end slid out.....when you're on the brakes your front tire has much weight on it which can force it into the raod and give it better traction (sometimes...or sometimes make it slip heh) when you're on the gas the opposite happens, the weight goes to the back and the front gets light, so it's sould have been that when you let off the brake and applied throttle the front got too light and lost grip? those controll changes mid-corner have to be sooooo smooth! something to think about even if it wasn't the actual cause?
  21. by the way superdave, I love your signature
  22. haha, well I haven't told my mom about it, but it's no big secret everyone at work was asking why I was limping heh, I pretty much stayed on my ass in my room for a day after but then I had to go to work and deliver some pizza, man stairs suck, damn apartments! But really it wasn't that bad, no broken bones just some swollen joints, it took me some thinking to figure out how I managed to scrape up the inside of my left boot and left knee and the outside of my left shoulder and left torso at the same time?!? Then I remembered about the curb so while my jacket was grinding the road my leg was pressed up against the curb....man if that curb hadn't come outta nowhere I would been fine. OK so in a little more detail I came into the corner quite fast hangin off and leaned over and then I realized it was a decreasing radius so I was like "oh F##k that" and started applying pressure to both brakes as I decreased the lean angle and started running a little wide(at this point my plan was just to stop and run off the road into the dirt a little, no biggie right? so I hit the gravel on the side of the road and for half a second I'm fine just sliding but still upright (I had practiced riding my street bike in the dirt several times for just such an emergency!) but then just my luck caltrans had decided this was the perfect spot to change the road from having a dirt shoulder to having a curb, so my front wheel hits the beginning of the curb (lucky I didn't taco my rim!!) which throws the bike down on it's left side with me under it, my back made a good frame slider for the rear, but the front end was grinding all over the curb as was my leg. My jacket had ridden up a bit on the side and I was expecting to see a bloody mess because that's what it felt like, but it's relatively minor, worst was the knee as I was wearing jeans and not leather pants, but that's healing pretty good though my pants were stuck to my knee this morning when i woke up (3 days later!) slowly peeling clothes off body parts isn't something I ever really thought I'd have a chance to experience. My bike is fine for the most part, needs a new fairing and maybe a new clutch lever? I was planning on getting a new fiberglass tyga spark fairing and headlight before the crash anyway. I got up after the crash and walked around in a couple circles doing some deep breathing till the pain wasn't severe then I checked myself out and picked up my bike because I was smelling gas. I walked around picking up pieces of my bike and putting them in my pockets, then I got on and noticed the handle bars would only turn one direction, I figured out it was the gauge cluster that was pushed into the triple clamp so I pushed on it with my leg a bit till the mount bent back straight and started coasting down the hill. when I got to the stop sign I kicked it into 1st and popped the clutch but nothing happened so I checked for broken wires and fuel line and no problems, so I kicked it over sever times with no luck (yes my bike has a kick start heh!) but then I started coasting down another hill with more speed this time and kicked it into 2nd and let it roll for a while in gear after a few seconds of that it fired and I was able to drive it home! I hit a bump on the way and windscreen came loose but I grabbed it before it flew away and carried it a while, when I got to the next stoplight I stuck it inside my jacket and zipped it up (chest protector! heh) rather than go home or to the hospital I drove straight to the mall and grabbed a veggie corndog and a burrito and limped into wilsons leather to ask them if my warranty covered road rash (favorite jacket too man). As for your comments about me being experienced and fast, well actually I still have my permit hahaha, only been riding less than 2 months! I don't consider myself fast at all but I pass other bikes constantly and have never been passed so?? I think they're just going too slow? I am very fast and experienced in a car which carries over a lot as far as finding the right line through the corner and getting the shifting down and all that. Oh I forgot to mention something else that makes me really stupid for trying this exercise, the tires I have on my bike are like over 5 years old maybe more and they are all dried up and hard and cracked, I purposely left them on my bike because they have reduced traction, because I figured if I get used to riding with my bike sliding around in every corner I'll be that much more solid when I get the michelins, they were bad when I first started riding and I'd get the tail drifing in all the fast corners, but I have burned most of the hard stuff off now so they actually do have some grip now, but still, hard tires, unknown road, gravel all over the sides, blind corner, no brakes , faster than I was comfortable with, I may as well have just crashed it on purpose you know!!?! That's the first thing I thought to myself when I got up "how the hell did I think I wasn't going to crash right there?" Oh well, chalk it up to experience, remember, if you do it on purpose it's not an " accident", it's a "crash" heh. here's the link to the pictures if you missed them in my last post, take it easy. Oh the bike is an NSR250 if you were wondering (2 stroke) http://www.spindox.org/~xero/retarded.JPG
  23. Well yes I am much smoother after doing this exercise! I used to have odd contours on my body that are now more flat and smoothed out thank you Keith Code! You'll be hearing from my attorney in the morning ....just kidding but seriously this exercise did work, I found myself going faster in the corners than I previously felt comfortable going, but I guess there was a reason that I didn't feel comfortable going faster than i was going?? The road I was on was unfamiliar to me, I think that was my first mistake, I should have picked a road that I had been down 100 times so there would be no surprises! I went though a few corners with little or no brakes and yes it was very mentally intense, it really makes you pay attention to your line and body position, but then I came into a decreasing radius corner and I just didn't have any cushion to correct anything when the corner got tighter, so I ran a little wide, hit some gravel and then ate burm. I must say something about this that nobody has mentioned ....when you come into a corner using the brakes and even trail braking a bit you are in a state of compressed suspension and you are already engaged in the activity of feeling the grip of the tires so when you ease off the brakes and lean the bike over it is one smooth motion and the stresses on the bike remain somewhat constant, where as going from a completely unloaded suspension and free rolling tires it is somewhat of a harsh transition to suddenly load the suspension and tires and try to immediately find the tire feel while in the corner.....while this does not take away from the validity of the exercise, for any kind of fast riding I am always going to give that light touch on the brakes to level the suspension etc. I should also add that I may have picked a much more twisty and steep road than the author had in mind...in retrospect I remember the mention of canyon sweepers, I was on a very steep mountain with sets of 10mph corners. Anyway good luck to you all My advice if you are going to try this is to expect to crash and if you're coming into a corner and you really think you may be going too fast use the effing brakes, that's what they're for!! Take it easy and start by using just a little less brakes and do it several times on the same road so you can GRADUALLY increase the corner speed....but really there is a speed at which you're bike just will not hold the corner so keep that in mind while you try to get as close to that speed as possible! Man I feel like such a retard for not using the brake just because I wasn't *supposed* to, oh well, I'll probably try this exercise again after I heal? http://www.spindox.org/~xero/retarded.JPG
  24. A good way to practice this that I used when learning it in a car that I also found works well on the bike is to pick one constant speed like 30-40mph then try shifting between 2 gears while holding the same speed, do this until you can do it smoothly and then try the same thing but shifting 2 gears at once *click click* you'll have to give it a little extra gas on the downshift to match the revs and this can actually be slightly dangerous until you get it right so do it with no traffic, once you can do this just do it while braking and you've got it! I must say though as an afterthought that the 2 gears at once thing is probably for the more daring riders as I belive it is a very useful tool when done right, but if you mess it up it could cause your rear end to slide out in a corner! The one gear at a time brake-down/finger-palm shift is safe though and I think it is a must for every rider!
  25. OK, well I just went for a ride down to the hardware store and back and I practiced the multiple down shifts, after a couple over revs and a few lurches when I let the clutch out I did nail it once cleanly and man was it smooth!(coming up to a stop I was in 4th and then dropped it down into 2nd while braking and rolled on a little thottls while letting out the clutch)...it's just tricky to get the engine revs matched to the gear, it will requite a lot more practice until i can to it without thinking too much, but it does work the same as in a car. I must mention though that my bike is an NSR250 which probably has a slightly more close ratio gearbox than most production 4-strokes, but the difference isn't THAT big. I'm still open to comments/arguments/suggestions! thanks -David
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